Read the November 19 meeting.

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Recording in progress.

Valerie Amezcua

Thank you very much. I hereby call the Santa Ana City Council meeting to order. This meeting is taking place with in-person attendance and by teleconference via Zoom. The public may access the meeting via the Santa Ana YouTube channel or the city's website. Please bear with us as the technology may disrupt the flow of the meeting. Madam Clerk, please conduct a roll call.

Jennifer L. Hall

Councilmember Becerra. Councilmember Hernandez. Councilmember Lopez. Councilmember Penaliza. Councilmember Vasquez. Mayor Pro Tem Fan. Mayor Mesquah. Mayor Mesquah. Mayor Mesquah.

Valerie Amezcua

Madam Clerk, are there any additions or deletions to the closed session item? No, there are not. Do any council members need to announce their abstentions on closed session items?

Alvaro Nuñez

Yes, I need to announce my abstention from item 1A, as Share Ourselves Corporation is a client of my employer, Rattan and Tucker, so I will not be in the closed session meeting. Thank you.

Valerie Amezcua

Thank you very much, Madam Proton.

Jennifer L. Hall

Madam Clerk, do we have any speakers for closed session? Yes, Mayor and City Council, we do. noting for the record that we did receive two e-comments that were distributed to the City Council and posted online regarding closed session item number three additionally we do have two speaker cards and several speakers on zoom for related to the closed session agenda so I'll start with the speakers in person here in the council chamber when I call your name please line up behind the podium please state your name and the ward or neighborhood that you live in for the record and you have two minutes for your

Jennifer L. Hall

comments first speakers are Tanya Navarro and Penelope Lopez

hello council members my name is Tanya Navarro and I'm the community organizer with CHISPA and a Santa Ana resident I'm here to strongly urge you to appoint the most qualified candidate, Sean Reyes, as the independent oversight director for the Police Oversight Commission. In 2022, Santa Anna made history by establishing its first ever Police Oversight Commission, a landmark victory achieved after nearly 60 years of tireless advocacy by residents demanding transparency and accountability. This commission was meant to be more than just symbolic. It was created as a real mechanism for accountability, tasked with conducting

impartial investigations into police misconduct and building trust with the community. But two years later, the lack of an independent oversight director has left this critical work incomplete, threatening the commission's purpose and the community's faith in it.

Police abuses are not abstract in Santa Ana. They're very real. These abuses have cost us loved ones, left lifelong trauma, and shattered families. Even when we survive, we carry the scars, which are emotional or physical. Just earlier today, I saw in the news headlines of Donald Trump saying that he plans to mass deport people. This is one of the safeguards that we can do in junction with those headlines. What we need is leadership that prioritizes truth, justice, and accountability that this community deserves. Sean is the most qualified candidate for this role.

His leadership in the 2019 Community Safety Assessment engaged over 1,000 Santa Ana residents, giving him a deeper knowledge of the communities and our concerns. As a civil rights attorney, Sean is uniquely qualified to serve as an independent oversight director because of his unwavering dedication to the law and its fair application. As a civil rights attorney, Sean has spent his career ensuring that legal systems work for all people, especially those who have historically been marginalized. His deep understanding of legal framework is his commitment to interpreting and upholding the law with integrity.

Jennifer L. Hall

Penelope Lopez.

Good evening. I am Penelope Lopez and I am the organizing director at CHISPA. I want to begin by expressing my deep concern regarding the lack of transparency and the delays in the process of hiring an independent oversight director. This process must be open and accessible to the public as it directly impacts the trust our community places in you as leaders. Every delay in this process erodes that trust and undermines the essential purpose of police oversight, which is to ensure accountability, transparency, and justice in law enforcement practices.

Without a director in place, the Police Oversight Commission cannot fully carry out its duties. There are already complaints that have been filed with the commission that remain unaddressed because there is no director to investigate or follow up on the concerns. This delay does a disservice not only to the individuals who filed complaints, but also to the entire community, which deserves a functioning oversight body. We need a director who will uphold the integrity of the commission and work tirelessly to ensure accountability. That person is Sean Garcia-Lays.

Sean is uniquely qualified for this role. His background as a civil rights attorney provides the expertise and perspective necessary to lead the Oversight Commission effectively. He understands the importance of protecting individual rights while working collaboratively to improve public safety. It is worth noting that attorneys who have represented clients against municipal jurisdictions and law enforcement agencies have gone on to lead civilian oversight bodies with great success. The time for delays and excuses is over.

Our community cannot wait any longer for oversight and accountability that an independent oversight director will bring. Anelope, your time is up.

Jennifer L. Hall

Mayor and City Council, that concludes the in-person speakers. We'll move on to the Zoom speakers. When I call your name, please unmute and proceed with your comments. First speaker is CSO Orange.

Hello. My name is David Pulido. I'm a member of CSO Orange County and a resident of Board 5. So Santa Ana's Police Oversight Commission was created in the context of a nationwide protest against police violence. People were desperate to see officers held accountable for their actions, and from the beginning, there were two forces in this fight for accountability, the people and the police. People whose loved ones are brutalized and killed by police often understand this situation, and today that fight is playing out in the hiring of an independent

oversight director for the Police Oversight Commission. The Independent Oversight Director, or IOD, exercises the power of the commission, such as the power to make disciplinary recommendations of police officers to the city. Two of the five candidates, IntegraSure and JL Group LLC, are staffed by former police officers, prosecutors, and FBI agents, all obvious conflicts of interest for an independent oversight body. We assume that police workforces are pushing these candidates, and they want to smother the commission in its crib. Other two candidates, the other two are middle-of-the-road candidates that don't see the basic divide

between the people's interests and that of the police. The only candidate with a strong history of fighting for police accountability is civil attorney Sean Garcia Lace. And if the city council hires integrature or jail group LLC, it will represent a blow to the struggle for police accountability. Police forces want to weaken the commission as much as possible, but if we want a functioning and truly independent commission, we need to hire the only strong pro-accountability candidate, Sean Garcia Lace. Thank you.

Jennifer L. Hall

next speaker on zoom jennifer

good afternoon mayor and city council my name is jennifer rojas and i'm here representing chispa we're an organizing home for young latinos in orange county uh chispa helped to pass the civilian oversight ordinance and we worked closely with the city manager's office the city attorney's office the mayor and the city council. We're calling today to urge the mayor and city council to appoint Sean Garcia-Lays to serve as the inaugural independent oversight director. Mr. Garcia-Lays is the only prospective director that will ensure the full integrity of the

commission. Mr. Garcia-Lays is a civil rights attorney. He was the founding commissioner of of the Los Angeles Probation Oversight Commission, where he built the largest oversight commission in the country. He's worked with civilian and law enforcement stakeholders to increase transparency and to enact reforms to increase safety within probation and juvenile facilities. He is also the only prospective director that has worked in and for the city of Santa Ana. He wrote the 2019 Santa Ana Community Safety Assessment through his time at Urban Peace Institute. Through this report, he engaged SAPD leadership,

officers, as well as 1,000 Santa Ana residents. Mr. Garcia-Lei's background as a civil rights attorney is an asset for the Oversight Commission. It's important to note that attorneys who have represented individual clients against municipal jurisdictions and law enforcement agencies have been later hired by those same jurisdictions to lead civilian oversight. Sean would be bound by ethics rules, similar to other attorneys who have taken oversight rules. The other bids for director are cause for significant concern. For example, JL Group bid is concerning.

JL Group has publicly-

Jennifer L. Hall

Jennifer, your time is up. next speaker abe please unmute and make your comments

abe or abe good afternoon city council and mayor thank you um yeah as many have stated we are certain we demand that sean gracia lace be hired as the independent oversight director two years ago the city formed this police oversight commission to review and investigate complaints and for two years it has almost been intentional in the way that the city council has avoided hiring this independent oversight director so at some point an inaction itself becomes an

action so we demand that the city council for the reasons previously stated then not to overlook the fact that the competitors are also outright have conflicting interests we push the city Council and the mayor to elect as the independent oversight director.

Jennifer L. Hall

Next speaker, Emma G. Please unmute and make your comment.

Hello. My name is Emma Gottfried. I am also a member of CSO Orange County. And CSO Orange county is a grassroots organ community organization based here in santa anna and

the the oversight commission is intended to improve transparency increase accountability and build public confidence in the santa anna police department but how can the commission accomplish this if the uh independent oversight director position is filled by um a a office that consists of former cops or fbi agents the santa ana police department already has their own way of doing internal investigations so having a former officers in this role would stop the commission from achieving this goal of accountability before it even gets the chance

since the commission can direct that the independent oversight director independently reviews and investigates citizens' complaints or like lawsuits alleging to types of police misconduct and that an independent oversight director itself can subpoena witnesses and compel the production of evidence for their investigation. This is an extremely crucial role in police accountability. And so this power really needs to be in the hands of someone who believes in the goal of increased accountability and transparency, which is why I strongly support Sean Garcia-Lays

as for the independent oversight director. As an organization like CSOOC, we've been canvassing around the city and speaking to residents and talking about this. And residents agree that having someone who actually would like to fight for accountability is crucial. They understand and that police officers look out for them.

Jennifer L. Hall

Next speaker, CSO Orange Rain.

Hi there, my name is Rain, and I'm also with CSO Orange County. I just wanted to list off some alarming examples that speak to a lack of police accountability in Santa Ana. From 2011 to 2020, Santa Ana paid over 24 million towards lawsuits against the police department. From 2016 to 2021, there were 31 use of force complaints and 0% were ruled in favor of civilians. Also, from 2016 to 2021, there were 11 reported alleged crimes committed by the police and 0% were ruled in favor of civilians.

Internal affairs also sabotaged the investigation into the MET officer's sexual harassment and assault of a teenage biner in 2020. From this data that spans a 10-year timeline, we see that police are committing crimes, and there is little to no justice for victims and zero police accountability from the officers who have committed crimes. An independent oversight commission was created to be an avenue for justice and police accountability, and I see no path forward in obtaining either of those things for the people of Santa Ana if the city council goes with anyone besides

Sean Garcia-Layes, whose career shows dedication to community advocacy and fighting back against institutional discrimination. We can see his work against discriminatory gang injunctions in LA, Ventura, and Orange County. In Placentia, for example, the OC District Attorney was forced to withdraw an injunction that would have targeted nearly 50 people that it could not prove were even active gang members. He also fought to enforce the Racial Justice Act, which was designed to address racial disparities in prosecutions. So for us, the choice is clear. We want a candidate who understands that... Sorry.

Who will fight for police accountability. Thank you.

Jennifer L. Hall

Next speaker, the second CSO Orange. Please unmute and make your comments.

Hi, my name is Diana. I'm a resident of Ward 4. And as other speakers have mentioned, I'm here to speak in favor of hiring Sean Garcia-Lays as independent oversight director. The oversight commission was established in order to provide Santa Ana residents with police accountability. and as others have mentioned, we can't have that if our IOD is not independent of the police. So hiring a former police officer will essentially sabotage the mission of the oversight commission.

And as others mentioned, we've canvassed the community, especially communities that have been directly affected by these police crimes that nobody is held accountable for. and in those communities we've heard people say that they're disrespected by the police that some people didn't even want to talk to us about the police because they're so afraid to say anything about the police in fear of retaliation so if we have a former officer or a conflict of interest like that how can our residents have faith in the commission how can they feel safe making these complaints against a police department that always fails

them that treats them like shit um so please hire shangar celas because he is the only acceptable candidate on the list of candidates and santa ana deserves functioning police oversight that is truly independent of the police department next speaker kayla asato

hello can you hear me okay yes please go ahead awesome uh my name is kayla asato i represent and Orange County environmental justice. And fun fact, today is my birthday. So I decided how best to spend it than talking to Santa Ana City Council about why we need Sean Garcia-Lays.

Orange County environmental justice has also canvassed around, I believe we canvassed wards two, four, and five, two, four, five, and six actually, around police oversight

in last year and we have or we were deep canvassing and some we weren't even talking about police oversight but that new topic kept coming up people want to feel safe in their communities and they are afraid of the police this was unprompted conversations and the fact that that people are talking about safety, wanting to feel safe and the police making them feel unsafe, shows that there has been a betrayal of trust from Santa Ana police. Previous speakers have talked about the different uses of force allegations, lawsuits paid out.

Speakers have talked about the impact of independent IOD, not being the one who like disrupts the entire commission, just chooses how the commission would rule in favor of different things and i think that is extremely extremely important to gain the trust of the community especially while people are dying members of the city council or family members of the current city council have been attacked by the police we are seeing so much policing violence and brutality and we need to find some justice and we can start that by giving the police oversight commission some teeth and that starts

with uh hiring uh shangarcia lays thank you very much next speaker zoya haji

hello um my name is zoya haji i'm speaking today to demand that the council hire sean I'm Garcia Leiz. As the independent oversight director for the Police Oversight Commission in Santa Ana, as many other speakers have stated already, there are countless stories of families and individuals suffering at the hands of brutal police violence and violations and killings by the police who get by with zero accountability. Two years after the Police Oversight Commission was established, it has been two years after the Police Oversight Commission has been established,

but have failed to address many complaints of the police due to no director of the commission. I refuse to let these incidents go by without any investigation. And with the hiring of Sean Garcia-Lays, who is a civil rights attorney and has a record that can ensure a functioning police oversight commission that can provide accountability that the people of Santa Ana deserve, instead of other candidates who have obvious conflicts and involvement with the police system. Thank you.

Jennifer L. Hall

Next speaker, Amanda C. Please unmute and make your comments.

Jennifer L. Hall

Amanda C., we can't hear you.

Jennifer L. Hall

Amanda?

Jennifer L. Hall

Mayor and City Council appears to have technical difficulties with her connection. That does conclude the public speakers for closed session.

Valerie Amezcua

Thank you, Madam City Attorney. I mean, City Clerk at this time will now recess this portion of the meeting to consider items listed on closed session agenda. Thank you.

Recording stopped.

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Sonia R. Carvalho

Recording in progress.

Jennifer L. Hall

Madam Clerk, please start the meeting. Yes, Mayor. Go ahead, please.

Valerie Amezcua

I'll wait until Steven sits down.

Valerie Amezcua

I hereby reconvene the Santa Ana City Council meeting to order. This meeting is taking place with in-person attendance and by teleconference via Zoom. The public may access the meeting via the Santa Ana YouTube channel or the City's website. Please bear with us as the technology may disrupt the flow of the meeting. As a reminder, this is a meeting to conduct the business of the City. As Mayor, I am afforded the opportunity to call for a recess or break or even clear the meeting room. if a meeting becomes too disruptive to properly conduct business. Warnings will be provided prior to any action being taken.

Valerie Amezcua

We appreciate your cooperation. For everyone's safety per the fire marshal, please do not stand or place objects in the aisles, in front of the dais, along the back wall of the council chamber, or in front of entrances or exits. Guidelines for members of the news media, anyone else who wishes to film or photograph the meeting, are available in the lobby. And our PIO, Paul, is here. We need to speak to him. During city council presentations and oaths of office, guests of individuals being recognized are invited to come to the front to take photos. Madam Clerk, please conduct a roll call.

Jennifer L. Hall

Council Member Becerra? Here. Council Member Hernandez? Present. Council Member Lopez? Here. Council Member Penalosa? Present. Council Member Vasquez? Present. Mayor Pro Tem Fan? Here. Mayor Mesquah? Here. All seven members present?

Valerie Amezcua

Thank you very much. Madam Clerk, before we proceed to the Pledge of Allegiance, please make any announcements.

Jennifer L. Hall

Thank you. For members of the public on Zoom or teleconference to request to speak during public comments on agenda or non-agenda items within the city's jurisdiction, you must dial star 9 from your phone or click the button labeled raise hand from Zoom now to be in the speaker queue once public comments commence. This does not apply to public hearing item numbers 34 and 35, for which comments will be taken and called for separately. Thank you.

Valerie Amezcua

Thank you. First item on the agenda is the Pledge of Allegiance. Vic Mendez, you want to come up and lead us pledge of allegiance with your UCLA jacket please

good thing I'm off for a few weeks of school so I don't get rusty on my pledge please put your right hand over your heart I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one nation under God, individual, with liberty and justice for all. Thank you.

Valerie Amezcua

Thank you, Vic. Really appreciate it. At this time, we'll have the words of inspiration provided by Police Chapman Bob Barnett. Please come to the podium, sir.

In a moment, I'll just say a very brief prayer, but I want to bring a reminder that in a little over a week, we gather with family and friends to celebrate meals and have fellowship and to reflect on the year, it's time to be grateful. But I ask one favor of everybody. Oftentimes it just takes a moment to think back to that individual in our life who inspired us, encouraged us, was there for us. They invested time and energy and resources to get a lot of us where we are to this day. I think it would be nice if tonight, before I say this prayer, we just

remember their name. Many of them were family, friends, teachers, coaches, people that we held dear or still hold dear to this day, but they loved us enough to invest their life in us. So simple prayer. Lord God, I thank you for the people gathered in this room. I thank you for the people who invested in our lives, who taught us, guided us, gave us their wisdom, and gave us opportunity, Lord. We ask a blessing upon them because we remember them. We're thankful for the people gathered here, Lord, for you brought them to this day. There's much to be accomplished for for the sake of our city. Bless those that serve our city,

our city council, our mayor. Bless those, Lord, that protect our city, our law enforcement officers, our fire authority. And Lord, we're grateful. We're grateful even before next week. In the name of the Lord, amen.

Valerie Amezcua

Amen, thank you.

Valerie Amezcua

Madam Clerk, are there any additions or deletions to the city council agenda?

Jennifer L. Hall

I have one announcement that for item number 32 on the business calendar, a revised ordinance was prepared by the city attorney's office and provided to you on the dais as well as in the back for public review. So consideration of that item on the business calendar would be of the revised ordinance for first reading. And then the city manager has an announcement.

Jennifer L. Hall

Thank you. Can you speak into your mic, please?

Jennifer L. Hall

24. 24. 24.

We want to bifurcate the manager position for the homeless services increase. I want the city council to consider approving the remaining two. I think as I indicated, we want to schedule a strategic plan with the city council in late January, February. And I think this is one of the items that we should be discussing at that point. Mostly in further discussion with the executive director of community development who oversees the homeless services component, we want to make sure if this is an opportunity for us to actually establish a more robust, better program or to evaluate our role as the change

in federal law, state law, and our perspective of how we should be addressing these kind of issues. So I would ask the City Council to exclude that portion of the report in the resolution and only approve the two A in positions.

Valerie Amezcua

Thank you very much, Mr. City Manager. Madam Clerk, anything else?

Jennifer L. Hall

No, that concludes the additions and deletions.

Valerie Amezcua

Thank you. We're going to do presentations at this time. We only have three this evening. The first one is mine, honoring the National Hispanic Business Women's Association. If you please join me.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 1

Come on up, ladies. Please.

Hi sweetie, how are you? How are you?

Valerie AmezcuaItem 1

As you can tell, I don't like them.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 1

All right. It is my honor today to recognize the National Hispanic Business Women Association. We're celebrating National Women's Small Business Month and the incredible contributions of the National Hispanic Business Women Association. I want to commend NHBWA for their unwavering commitment to empowering women entrepreneurs for the past 27 years. You guys come close. You're so far. Since its founding, NHBWA has been a driving force in Orange County, equipping women with the essential tools, mentorship, and financial resources to launch and grow their businesses.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 1

Your dedication has created a legacy of empowerment and opportunity, fostering a strong and resilient community of women business owners and leaders in the community. One of NHBWA's most inspiring contributions is its investment in future women leaders through scholarships. As you approach the 25th anniversary of your scholarship program, 25th anniversary, we celebrate the hundreds of young women you've supported in pursuing higher education and entrepreneur success. These scholarships don't just change individual lives, they lay the foundation for future generations of empowered leaders.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 1

And many of those leaders are here in Santa Ana. For that, I thank you. NHBWA's commitment to structured networking is truly exemplary. By creating purposeful spaces for connection and collaboration, you're not just building businesses, you're amplifying women's influence throughout Santa Ana and beyond. The mentorship programs and community events you organize for high school students are planting seeds of confidence and leadership in young women. Your work ensures that the impact of NHBWA will ripple across generations, cultivating a pipeline of trailblazing women entrepreneurs.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 1

The businesses NHBWA supports not only transform the lives of their owners, but also contributes to the economic vitality of our region. Your work helps create jobs, foster innovation, build stronger communities in Santa Ana and beyond. On behalf of the City of Santa Ana, thank you at HBWA for 27 years of visionary leadership and commitment to empowering women. As we celebrate National Women's Small Business Month, let us also celebrate your extraordinary impact and look forward to many more years of growth and success. Together, we can continue to uplift, empower, and inspire the next generation of women.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 1

And thank you all.

Sorry, I have my back here.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 1

So, the president of NHBWA, Ana Laura, would you like to come up and say something?

Thank you, Mayor, City Council, and members of the public. My name is Ana Laura Padilla, and I am honored to serve as the president for NHBWA. And I don't want to go so much on the details because Mayor Mescal already explained the impact that we're having in our community but our mission is very simple and powerful. We want to create a community where every woman can rise and bring others along with her. So we do this in a very fun way. We have our tacos and tacones which you can come without tacones too, without high heels.

And have this safe network opportunity for you to connect with amazing women like the ones that are behind me with our madrinas which are leaders that started this organization 27 years ago and i just want to like say why they started because women really wanted to have a say in the table 27 years ago there was not a lot of business led by women or women would will not want to just step in and then just do something for their own so these these amazing leaders got together and started empowering all those women in the community to actually

get a business license, to structure a business, to get access to capital, to empower them on how to do it, how to network, and how to launch the business and then sustain. They did the same for me 10 years ago. So 10 years ago, coming here as an immigrant, not knowing pretty much anyone and starting from zero finding an HPWA is what helped me to now be a successful businesswoman and it keeps on helping me to shape my way into the future with my businesses so to our Mayor Mesquah thank you

from all of us for this proclamation but not only for that for your great commitment and support in creating spaces where women-led business can thrive and as we look for the future let us all remember that when we empower one woman we empower families communities and future generations so much as good as you

Valerie AmezcuaItem 1

so are you gonna accept this so on behalf of the city of Santa Ana I'm gonna give this proclamation to Ana Laura for NHBW I'm not gonna read the whole whereas but it was my honor as the mayor the first woman mayor in the city of Santa Ana and reelected again with the highest number of votes ever. Okay. Again, a Latina woman.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 1

It's my honor to give you this, to all of you. Thank you so much. I go to all of your events and they're wonderful and the scholarships and so we just, they're amazing women and if you, and men can go to the events too. They're wonderful events and so come out and support them. And so with that I give this to you so thank you for everything. Anybody else? We have our immediate

past president Dr. Susie Lopez Guerra that is going to invite us to our next events and talk a little bit more about age. Gracias Ana Laura. There's a little bit of a height difference. We are celebrating 25 years of the blessing and opportunity to provide scholarships to young women who otherwise wouldn't have the access. So we are starting a 25 for 25 campaign and on May 2nd we are going to be having our grand celebration. Stay tuned, follow us. We welcome everyone to with open arms. As Ana Laura said this started because we didn't have a space,

place or voice at the table and to eliminate that we're opening our arms. So yes you don't have to wear tacones, you can wear tennis, but we welcome you. So thank you so much Mayor Mesquo for the recognition. Thank you for the council for accepting and acknowledging the work that we continue to do on behalf of our community because as we uplift the community we change the structure of how we see each other and how our future sees themselves. So thank you.

File.

File. File. File. File. File. File. File. File. File. File.

File. File.

Phil BacerraItem 1

File. File.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Phil BacerraItem 1

If I could have Father Brad, Ellen Mogasemi, is Karina here as well? Karina, Jessica Gutierrez, Sister Paulette, Juanita Dobie, and Kevin Smith. If you could join me down here in front of the dais. So while they're coming up, let's give a warm welcome to Hands Together, a center for children.

Phil BacerraItem 2

There's this other guy that some of you might recognize, our former Alcalde himself, Miguel Pulido. So Hands Together is located right here in Santa Ana and they're celebrating their 25th year of making a lasting impact on the lives of children and families here in our community. As we reflect on the journey that led to the creation of this vital resource, we're reminded of the power of collaboration and the vision of those who first came together back in 1999. It It all began with the meeting between Father Brad, who is a longtime rector at my church, Church of the Messiah,

Phil BacerraItem 2

Sister Eileen McNerney, and Sister Mariana Gemmet of the Sisters of St. Joseph of Orange, and other community leaders who also shared a concern. How can we meet the growing needs of the children and families in our local neighborhoods? At the heart of that conversation was an empty medical building that was located right across the street from Church of the Messiah. It had the potential to serve as a hub for addressing a critical issue facing the nearby community, which was the lack of access to early childhood education.

Phil BacerraItem 2

Sisters Eileen and Mariana, who were deeply involved with Taya San Jose, which is now known as Hope Builders, understood that many women in their job training programs were unable because they lacked, I'm sorry, were unable to continue because they lacked child care. Further research into the nearby Logan neighborhood revealed an even deeper concern, and that was that many children were entering kindergarten without the fundamental and foundational early learning that would set them all up for success. So it was clear that a child care center was needed, and the old medical building could be that solution.

Phil BacerraItem 2

So the Episcopal Church stepped up, raising $250,000 toward the renovation costs and securing a lease on that building. then a key turning point came that's why Miguel's up here so when then mayor Miguel Pulido and the City Council at that time approved an empowerment zone grant to support that building's renovation that commitment by our city was the catalyst for that project's growth with the additional support from St. Joseph's Hospital local organizations and funding from the Orange County Children and Families Commission, the vision for a child care center began to take place.

Phil BacerraItem 2

It wasn't just about providing a place for children. It was about creating opportunities for families to thrive. And so in 2000, Hands Together, a center for children was born. Hands Together is a 501c3 nonprofit organization with a dedicated board of directors led by Robert Kuhl, executive director of the Orange County Superior Courts, and a mission to provide high quality early childhood education to low-income families right here in Santa Ana and thanks to the ongoing support from partners like the Samueli Foundation Ingram Micro and the state of California hands together has been able

Phil BacerraItem 2

to offer scholarships parenting classes and access to critical health services including pediatric assessments and nutrition education their impact has been profound over the years we've watched children who've graduated from pants together go on to become top students in their elementary schools and beyond while their parents having been given the chance to improve their skills and gain education have gone on to find stable good paying jobs in 2007 they expended their offerings with two new programs a literacy program and the morning garden program designed specifically for mothers and children in temporary

Phil BacerraItem 2

housing these initiatives reflect their commitment to meeting the evolving needs of the community today hands together builds bright futures for families right here in central santa anna under the leadership of our current executive director ellen and with the guidance of the program director karina hands together remains dedicated to providing early childhood education that empowers families to achieve stability and success recently hands together was awarded a grant from the california department of education for both renovations to their preschool classrooms

Phil BacerraItem 2

and continued scholarship support for families. Additionally, they're proud of the beautiful mural that was created by the Orange County School of the Arts on their playground, a testament to the collaborative and creative spirit that thrives right here in Santa Ana within our community. I actually had the opportunity to witness the mural being created, and it was wonderful to see the children participating in the creation of that mural. So 25 years, Hands Together has served over 2,300 children, and each one of them has been given the foundation to succeed.

Phil BacerraItem 2

So as we look to the future, Hands Together is more committed than ever to their mission of ensuring that children here in Santa Ana have access to high-quality early education that they deserve, and that families are equipped with the tools that they need to break the cycle of poverty and build brighter futures. So on behalf of the Santa Ana City Council, it's my honor.

Phil BacerraItem 2

present this proclamation father bride if you join me up here

Phil BacerraItem 2

so i'm going to present present this to you guys in celebration of 25 years of service to the city of santa yana congratulations Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

Phil BacerraItem 2

Thank you. Thank you.

I would just like to say all of this, the spark to this great project came from the City Council and Mayor Pulido and we're so grateful for that and Miguel Pulido could you say something real quick yes father Brad I just want to thank everybody that's worked on this project but in particular my wife Laura you know for y'all on the City Council you know how much your spouses and partners do makes a big difference she kept telling me you got to support this you got to

support that she was on the board. We had nothing. We had a dream. Now there's 2,500 kids that have better lives because of that dream. So Father Brad, to you, to the current leadership, and all the board members, it's a lot of meetings that you go to, and it's tough, but it's a blessing. And to Phil Becerra, I want to thank him for acknowledging this 25-year anniversary. Thank you, Phil.

Thank you. Thank you very much for this special recognition. It is a real honor to be celebrating 25 years of serving children and families in Santa Ana. We really appreciate your support and we look forward to many, many more years in graduating a lot more children through our program. Thank you.

Phil BacerraItem 2

Would the council like to come down for a photo?

Benjamin VazquezItem 2

I'll do.

Thank you.

Thank you.

David PenalozaItem 2

Before you leave, Miguel, I found some of your old mail here if you wanted. I'm not kidding. It says, it was in the drawer. And one of your old business cards, too.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 2

We wanted to make sure you had that before you left. We wanted to make sure you have your mail. It was right here in the middle one. I didn't want to answer it for you, you know.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 2

All right. Presentation by Council Member Lopez, please.

Jessie LopezItem 2

Okay, do we have our presenters from Hope Builders? Hi, come on up.

Jessie LopezItem 3

Hi.

Jessie LopezItem 3

Okay, hi everyone. Tonight we're going to be recognizing Hope Builders and Rosario is here and she is their outreach specialist. And we are recognizing Hope Builders for all of their contributions to our community and we're happy to present the certificate of recognition for their invaluable contributions to our community. And they were founded in 1995 by the Sisters of St. Joseph's and if you know anything about the work you know that they are strong about what they believe in and they care about causes that impact a lot of a lot of people and so Hope Builders emerge

Jessie LopezItem 3

as a response to significance the significant challenges faced by our community rising gang violence youth unemployment low graduation rates and high teen pregnancy rates their work began as a beacon of hope in central Orange County and has grown to inspire lasting change Hope Builders mission truly is transformative and every year they enroll more than 300 young adults caught in cycles of poverty, empowering them with mentorship life skills and job skills that are tailored to the needs of their employers. And if you haven't visited their location here in Santa Ana,

Jessie LopezItem 3

they often do tours. I highly recommend that you check them out. And this is more than just a service. It's an unwavering commitment to acceptance and empowerment, meaning each individual young person where they are at and helping them build brighter futures, almost tailoring the needs that they need in their lives. As they approach their 30th anniversary, Hope Builder continues to provide free and paid career training and placement services. Their vision is so strong that they help break cycles of poverty, elevate our youth, and ensure a prosperous future for our community. For

Jessie LopezItem 3

nearly three decades, Hope Builder has been a corner store of opportunity in Orange County and they help create ripple effects that touch lives far beyond those they serve directly on behalf of our community on behalf of the city we extend our deepest gratitude for your dedication your vision and your difference that you help make in our city year after year it is with good pride that we present the certificate of recognition to help builders for their outstanding commitment to our community and helping us empower young people and strengthening our community as

well so thank you for all you do hello everyone it's a pleasure to be able to be here my name is Rosario I'm an outreach specialist at Hope Builders Hope Builders is coming up on our 30th anniversary so thankfully we were started in 1995 by the sisters of st. Joseph of Orange as well and we're here to really just empower youth ages 18 to 28 we do this through providing them the opportunity to go into career pathway in child development construction or medical assisting to just take take that step for themselves to be able to

create a pathway to prosperity for them so we do this by providing completely free training we pay all of our trainees while they're going to their programs with us and at the end of their program which is very short it's anywhere from three to five months we help with career placement as well so our goal is to find them full-time career pathways by the end of the program and it doesn't stop there we actually do check in on them on a monthly basis and offer continuous support once they've been employed for up to six months so we're here to support youth of Orange County as long as they're able to take that step as

long as they want to commit to themselves to their self-improvement for years to come and we're very excited to be here we're excited to serve the community of not just Santa Ana but the community in Orange County and we hope to continue to do that for years to come so thank you all for this recognition

Valerie AmezcuaItem 3

Okay, at this time, Madam City Attorney, do you have anything to report out of closed session?

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 3

Mayor, Council members and members of the public, we do have two reportable items from closed session. The first is in the case of Bertha Amesquipadilla et al. involving a law enforcement incident that occurred in 2022. The council has approved a settlement agreement in the amount of $2,998,000 by a vote of 6 to 1 with council member Hernandez voting no. As a special note, the plaintiff has no relationship with the mayor. With respect to the second reportable item, the council is moving forward with an interview of a candidate for the independent oversight director to the Santa Ana Police

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 3

Oversight Commission. This direction was provided at a vote of 4-3 with council members Hernandez, Lopez and Vasquez voting no. That's all the reportable action that we have.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 3

Thank you, Madam City Attorney. This is the time of the meeting for the City Council to receive comments from the public on agenda and non-agenda items. Madam City Clerk, please explain the public comment procedures and call the first speakers. Thank you, Mayor. Pursuant to resolution number

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

2023-047, speakers are requested to address the City Council directly and to refrain from profane language, racial epitaphs, and libelous or slanderous statements that disturb the decorum of the meeting. Pursuant to the Brown Act, the City Council may not enter into discussion at this time. Speakers will have two minutes for their comments. Before calling speakers, I'll report the following summary of emails provided as of today at 2 p.m. The city received 15 e-comments, one on item 15, one on item 32, two on item 33, one on item 36, and 10 on non-agenda topics. Those were distributed to the city council and made publicly available

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

online. We'll now hear from members of the public that are physically present in the council chamber followed by those on the conference callers Zoom to provide their comments on agenda or non-agenda items please state your name and the ward or neighborhood that you reside in for the record I'll call three names at a time from the speaker cards if you could please line up behind the podium when your name is called the first three speakers Tanya Vakili, Stephanie Mendez, Louise Geiser

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

Stephanie, go ahead.

Hi my name is Stephanie Mendez. I am an Emmy award winning journalist and producer. I am a former Santa Ana resident and I'm here speaking on behalf of my mother who is currently a resident of Santa Ana in Ward 2. Since January 23rd 2020 my family and I have been suffering in silence dealing privately with a neighbor who in an unprovoked and random attack violently assaulted my mother and has since been harassing stalking intimidating and threatening my mom. enough is enough my family has been dealing with this for almost five years now and nothing has

stopped our violent neighbor not calls to the police not restraining orders not court hearings not arrests not jail time this is a photo of my mother following the violent assault

this is another one her tooth was knocked loose and here's some more miss a mesqua you recently ran for re-election and your website states that public safety and community trust are your priorities you're endorsed by Sena Ana's police officers and you along with city council members David penalosa and Phil basera benefited from the support of the police union in your political campaigns you all voted for their pay raise which will cost the city $27 million and yet every time my mother has called the police for repeated violations to her civil harassment restraining order and

criminal protective orders very little happens it usually takes me writing and making calls to city officials about this in order for things to get done on October 23rd this same neighbor showed up outside of my mom's window threatening to kill and attack her. She was screaming wild, unfounded accusations about my mom and demanded that my sister and I also come out so that she can also assault us. This is all on video, by the way.

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

My mom called the police. Stephanie, your time is up.

Three minutes? That was not three minutes.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 3

It's two minutes, ma'am, and the city manager will have the police department meet with you out in the front lobby area. Chief, Commander Andrade, if you can follow me,

he'll be out there with you can i request an additional minute i'm almost done go ahead ma'am

despite despite calling the police and despite the police showing up and despite my mom showing the police the video of the incident the neighbor was not arrested she's still at large and she's still coming up to my mom's building to taunt her and threaten her my mom has reported these additional incidents to the police. If something like this is able to happen in the city of Sanana, despite my mother doing everything by the book, obeying laws, and acquiring several restraining orders for protection, then how can any citizen in this city feel safe or feel confident that they

will be protected if something like this were to happen to them too? I'm here today to ask if public safety and community trust are truly the city's priorities, your priorities, Ms. Amesqua, what is the city going to do about this my mother and our family need a permanent solution now we need justice and accountability now it's been five years what is the city going to do about this

Valerie AmezcuaItem 3

commander andradi is waiting for you out there madam city clerk can you shift the public comments to three minutes since i changed them for her just to be fair to everybody please

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

thank you thank you mayor will do next speaker tanya vakili

Hi. Hi. I feel very sorry for the lady. I think she left. Yeah, I am a social activist. My name is Tanyir Vakili. I am wearing the Iranian national team soccer jersey. country. And that being said, I am holding this paper that says I have to sign an agreement if I'm going to travel back to my country. And the next president of the United States are going to have probably another Muslim ban. And I'm not fearful because I'm afraid

of my own anger more than the situation that I might have with the law officers of the city and this time I would like to handle the situation differently. I would like to talk to my community and I really don't want to see the incidents like the police is not there and someone is abusing an elderly woman or homeless people in the street. OC is a very rich country and doesn't deserve to have all of these problems that I see in the street, the homelessness, business, all of the people who are searching for jobs, and we are spending so much money on the buildings.

So I am hoping at least you are allowing me to make the recording on the city and address this for the people, because trust me, after 8pm or 9pm, you don't want to walk in this neighborhood. And like, I am not familiar how to react when, you know, when we call the cops and they show up 30 minutes later and these people are threatening us because we just saw them selling the drug or, you know, illegal stuff just around from this Reagan courthouse. And I don't really know what to do.

I mean, like, I'm not someone who has a fear of life. And if I see the crime I report it, at the same time, the cops show up very late. And as an Iranian citizen, God help me in the courthouse, Mr. Mayor. I really would like you to let me visit you in private meeting and try to come up with my own way to resolve this problem. Because we have to stand for each other. And that's the meaning of the community. Thank you.

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

Next three speakers, Louise Geiser, Nadia Alvarado, and Olivia Arzate.

Sorry, I'm over 70 in December. Can you read that? I didn't believe it. But anyway, I want to say all you life, the peace part, the power of life, the animals have trained to staff, as she left where I live and saved many lives there. for overdosing. And we're going to listen to helping you live. And that's right. It's no longer allowed drugs. There are homeless people. I don't live like that. So we're going to listen to help you clean up. Thank you, community, for even doing that. Caring about these people. I was homeless for one year. It's not fun. Now I'm in a house. And I'm trying to show

love to everybody so they can know what love is in our world. We have enough garbage. So my mouth is dry, I have a password page. I wish I could spit right up, but there isn't any. But I want to say to you that thanksgiving is love and gratefulness, and I see all of us who have honed, we could love each other there, and we'll appreciate it. We get to the next step. So thank you a lot for, I don't know what I need to say, but thanks to the food department, the fire department, the ambulance, and all of those coming in. We have a lot of people who do overdoses.

Dad, and I hope you guys can help us clean it up. You know, I hate to see some of them wasting money on drug addicts. Let's get us healthy, you know. A lot of us are drug addicts, my friend. Some are. We had a couple die there. You're doing fine, kid. I'm watching Time, but I am so much in love with my life. I should be dead now. I have cancer and I have Alzheimer's disease. But I'm still around, and I hope to show everyone in this chapter love. Just because you're poor or anything, you're rich after.

You know, and I'm rich. This man who loves me to death makes me take my next thing, but I still love him. and we have a nice little partner, and we hope to have our own home again. Thanks for the hard work. Every one of you, so, so important, and I'm glad I was able to be able to say that. Normally, it's always in my head, but people think you're crazy when you say, oh, that's great, great. Well, you know what? Let's treat each other with respect. You know, that's the important part, All right. And I think I was one of you. I was right aside. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you for all the wonderful work you did. I know you're taking a lot and sometimes you want to say, get out of here. You know, we have to keep our mouth shut, you know. But sometimes you want to say that. But love everybody. And I wrap it up because I want to get some water. And thank you for letting me be there and sharing all the Louise, your time is up. Thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you all.

Thank you all. Thank you for your tomorrow. Thank you.

Hello, Mayor Mesquah and Council and City Manager Nunez. Congratulations on your new appointed seats for all of you that made it again. I just want to thank the city for the gang intervention prevention grant that you allowed me to be a part of this last year for public safety. At the very beginning, I was told that it was going to be a one-year, and then we would revisit it. I spoke with Mr. Nunez, I mean, Mr. Garcia, a couple days ago, telling me they weren't going to renew it. It saddens me because the work that I do with that population I work takes a lot of work.

You just don't, those guys just don't connect with you with gang intervention kids. And I put a lot of work in there. Our team put a lot of work in there with them. And we're doing home visits. We're working with them. We've take them. We took them camping this year. We took about 20-some kids from the city. From here, they've never been out of the city. We took them camping up to Idyllwild. We took them to the beach. We took them to the mountains. We went to the park. We did a lot of things with them. And, you know, it's, I was told that the money has to go to finish up some restrooms. And I get it.

I get that if that's what has to happen, that's what has to happen.

But I'll still do the work, whether, you know, I have financing from yourselves or not, because it's what I've done for the last 34 years right here in the community. And I want to end with this is that I've done 34 years work, intervention work in Artisa Pilar neighborhood. And not once have we had a council member, as Jonathan has been there to support the work that I've done, or the work that we've done, with all the different stuff that we've been able to do there. So I want to thank you, Councilman Hernandez, for your efforts, for stepping forward, and seeing the need there, not only there,

but throughout the city with our youth, with our adolescents that are, you know, going the wrong way. So, thank you for the one-year shot, you know, and see what happens, man. Thank you.

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

Olivia Arzate, Carlos Perea, Sandra Deanda.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 3

Can you bring it down so we can hear you, ma'am? The microphone, please. Thank you.

My name is Olivia Arzate, I am resident of Santa Ana, District 3, since more than 22 years. This night is very important for me and for my family. My comment is on the point in the Agenda 36, in memory of my son Edgar Vargas, who died in two years.

In memory of his struggle with the mental condition he had since he was 14 years old when he was diagnosed with a mental illness with which we had to learn to live. This was not easy for him and much less for the family.

because I will share that the mental condition is diagnosed for people, but we live with all the members of the family.

De la misma manera les comparto que somos una familia trabajadora y responsable que a lo a long time, has been able to support the community of Santana. I have been a volunteer in different organizations and I am always willing to hand them the hand to those who need them.

Edgar was not a young man problematic, he was a young man full of dreams and illusions. honest, but the condition was aggravating and with that, in a community in which the system, that is not how to integrate a person with this type of diagnosis,

Edgar nunca fue agresivo con nadie y quien lo conoció sabe que era respetuoso y agradecido. I was consuming the mental illness and complicating the lack of resources for being undocumented. And the excuse that he was a adult.

Disculpe, your time has been finished.

Is that interpretation? Yes. Good evening, all members of the city council. My name is Olivia Arzate. I have been a resident of Santa Ana, District 3, for over 22 years. And tonight I am here because it's a very important issue for me and for my family. I'm here to ask about item number 36, Edgar Vargas. He died two years ago, and I'm here to speak on his memory. He had a mental condition since he was 14 years old, and he lived this issue, and it was not easy for him.

It was not easy for our family. His mental condition was diagnosed, and it was lived by all of our family. And also, I'd like to share that we are a working family, a responsible family. And for many years, I've been contributing to the Santa Ana community. I volunteered in many different organizations to lend a helping hand. And Edgar was not a problem child. He was full of dreams. And his condition kept deteriorating.

and in a way that the system does not know how to deal with this diagnosis. For people who know him, Edgar was not aggressive in any way. For those who knew him, they know that he was respectful, he was grateful, and his mental issue consumed him, and especially because of the lack of resources because he was undocumented and the excuse that he was already an adult. Thank you.

Good evening, council members and mayor. My name is Carlos Perea with the Harvard Institute for American Economic Justice. I'm also here to speak in support of item 36 introduced by councilmember today requesting the city for an official apology to the family of Edgar Vargas Edgar Vargas in 2014 a young man undocumented young man was beat up by Santa Ana police officers the police officers then falsely claim that Edgar

Vargas tried to reach for a gun and injured them. And then he was later transferred over to ICE, wrongfully. The FBI got involved in this case and conducted an investigation and determined that Edgar Vargas was a victim of a crime. This case was an important case for not only the Latino community in Santa Ana, por Latinos, across the nation of how police use of force and abuse of power combined with immigration issues, if they're not addressed in the city, can lead to wrongful situations like this one.

So it's been 10 years since this case happened. And this case really was the rallying cry for the city to become a sanctuary city in 2016 to prohibit officers from transferring people over twice. In addition, this was a case that really sparked the conversation in the city of Santana about police accountability and that meeting went the city and its employees to wrong. So today's apology if the city votes to move forward in considering an apology for the city, for the family of Edgar Vargas, is it's important but it's more than symbolic it's a step in saying that the city

acknowledges the past and where we have done wrong and now where we moving forward we have done a lot of great work to ensure that the community is protected in the city of Santa Ana the American community feels like it belongs in the city of Santa Ana but also to ensure the city has the police oversight Commission now to ensure that when residents have complaints about police misconduct that the city will take it seriously and look into this. But it's important to remember where we started from. And the Edgar Vargas case was one of the cases that really

brought the city together in calling for this type of changes. And so right now I'm here also joining Olivia Vargas, the mom of Edgar Vargas, for years, many years, fought to bring justice to this case. The officer that was involved in this case was federally indicted by a grand jury in 2018. The case is closed. Sadly, Edgar Vargas has passed away in 2022, never recovering from his injuries, but I think an apology from the city should be long overdue. Thank you. Sandra Dayanda, followed by Jean Andres

and Victor Mendez. Hi everyone, good evening. I'm here to also comment on item 36. I actually got to meet Doña Olivia and her son Edgar around three years ago and basically I got to meet her because her son and herself were navigating the criminal justice system and the immigration system. And I found that I had so much in common with Doña Olivia because I actually have a brother who's a veteran

and also has schizophrenia and PTSD. And so I commend Councilman Vasquez for putting this on the agenda today because I know Dona Olivia is not one person in this city who scared the police killing people with mental illnesses it's a lot of us and I think that there has to be an alternative and instead of the police to deal with mental health issues they're not equipped they're not they're not they can take a couple of short trainings but they're not therapists they're not

counselors and we see to the effect of what happened with Edgar you know he was in the system for a decade he had to go to ICE detention and he had to come back and then because of his mental illness had to rotate around in the criminal justice system and I applaud Dona Olivia for being so brave today and sharing her story because she's not alone in the struggle. So I please, please demand that SAPD, the least that you guys can do is apologize so the Arsatev family, Vargas family can move on

and have some closure. Thank you.

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

Jean Andres.

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

Victor Mendez.

Good evening. A couple of comments on some of the items. Item 33.

My reading of everything was that it's really an issue of behavior versus ethics. I didn't really see a huge ethical breach in Councilmember Hernandez's behavior. here. It certainly was contrary to the city charter. He certainly breached those issues, but I think really a reasonable and logical consequence would be to have him just issue a formal apology. We all make mistakes. I think he did it out of passion, out of heart, not, you know, and he wasn't using his head, but that happens to all of us. And maybe a written admonishment from the council and let's just put it to bed, but I don't think

we need to really dwell on this. He did wrong. I think he knows he did. He'll learn from I'm sure and everyone is the better for it and just move forward. On number 32 on the encampment ordinance, I do agree with the encampment proposal. I think the issue for me is how do we enforce the ordinance. We really haven't done a very good job with all due respect to the police department about enforcing the public inebriation ordinance. We're stretched thin with the police department. So we have great laws in the books. If we're unable to enforce them, what good are they? So I think that needs to be discussed as you proceed forward

Number 11 families forward outstanding, you know the residents of Metro East senior apartments got hit with a 9% Increase and a lot of them are struggling I don't think that some may even you know are looking at the food kitchen and things like that So I definitely want to engage staff and see what this is about Making sure our residents my neighbors are aware of these resources But but thank you so much for bringing that forward staff and council. Please approve it Item number eight on your adjustments. There's obviously a pretty big gap between spending and revenue.

And I understand that the receipt of property taxes does take time, but you really should challenge the cash management going on here. No household, no business is able to run at a four-to-one ratio of expenses to income. Nobody works that way. And the question is, what can we do about it? But again, I understand the timing of some of these tax receipts plays into that. But you really got to take a hard look at how the city's managing this cash and where they're getting the money. Second, as I pointed out a few months ago, inflation receipts or inflation has, as inflation recedes, so shall your sales tax.

And I think that's what's happening. And then the staff is trying to look at the positive effects of inflation or lower inflation. And there probably are some. but I think as you move forward let's monetize that let's quantify it let's have a true understanding what those dollars mean in terms of a lower inflation number so that's it thank you so much for your time and go brooms we're gonna smash them on Saturday

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

mayor and City Council that concludes the public speakers that are present we'll now begin the zoom speakers when unmuted please announce your name and the ward or neighborhood that you reside in within the city of Santa Ana for the record fernando devaros please unmute and make your comments

hi can you hear me okay yes go ahead hi for those who are not familiar with my social media page i just want you to refer to it in case you have any questions about anything i'm going to refer to here you can go on instagram at fernando.deveras so i just wanted to speak on regarding item 33 which again is regarding what the city council should do relating to the findings of the investigation on Councilmember Hernandez.

I just wanted to highlight that I also submitted an ethics complaint against Mayor Mesquah for similar violations related to the city's charter. So Mayor Mesquah, for those who are not familiar, was using the police during the Fiestas Patrias event to try to intimidate me and remove me from the event at the behest of our congressional representative, Jose Luis Correa. If anyone wants a summary of the events, you can go to my page again, and I'll have some posts on my stories where you all can see the summary of that. But if the claim against Council Member Hernandez in the investigation is that he violated the

city's charter by overstepping his bounds as a council member and attempting to direct city staff, then Mayor Mesquah using the police to try to remove a constituent for no just cause should also fall into that category of overstepping her bounds as a representative. So I saw that Councilmembers Becerra and Pañalosa were very passionate in their admonishment of Councilmember Hernandez at the last special meeting that was called the week before the election. I hope that they reserve that same admonishment for the Mayor Mesquah, who similarly violated the city's charter. Thank you.

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

Mayor and City Council, that concludes the public speakers.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 3

Thank you. At this time, we're going to go to the consent calendar. Items 4 through 31 are before us. Councilmembers, please announce any items that you'll be abstaining from due to a conflict and if there are any requests to pull an item from the consent calendar for further discussion. Councilmember Hernandez.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

Thank you, Madam Mayor. I'll pull item 15.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 4

Item 15?

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

That is correct.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 4

Thank you. If I can ask the council to please speak a little louder because of air condition, it's hard to hear. Councilmember Becerra?

Phil BacerraItem 4

Thank you, Madam Mayor. I'll poll item 7.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 4

Thank you. Councilmember Vasquez? Thank you. Councilmember Lopez? I'd like to poll item 7. Thank you. Mayor Pro Tem? Nothing for me. I don't see Councilman Penelosa. Is there any items? No items.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

And just item 31 as well, Madam Mayor.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 4

Item 31. Madam Clerk, do you have that? Yes, Mayor.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 4

You pulled seven, yes. Okay.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 4

Yes, do you have any recusal?

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Yes, I'm sorry. I'd like to recuse myself from item number 11. Can you speak louder? I'd like to recuse myself from number 11 as my law firm represents family forward on a pro bono basis and although there is no conflict of interest pursuant to the advice of the city attorney out of an abundance of caution and appearance of impropriety i will recuse myself

Valerie AmezcuaItem 4

from that vote thank you is there a motion for the other remaining items so moved i'll second

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

madam mayor thank you let's prepare to vote please prior to vote by the city council pursuant to Government Code Section 54953C3, an oral summary of salary and benefits shall be made prior to final action of the Council on any local agency executive. Approval of Item Number 23 includes a salary increase for the City Clerk resulting in an annual salary of $195,083 and City provided deferred compensation payment of the maximum normal contribution effective October 15, 2024. Motion by Councilmember Becerra seconded by Councilmember Penaloza to approve the consent

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

calendar with the exception of items 7, 15, and 31, pulled for separate consideration, and an amendment on item 24 as noted by the city manager.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 4

Thank you.

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

The vote is 7 ayes, no nays. Motion carries.

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

The first item pulled is item number seven.

Phil BacerraItem 4

Madam Mayor, I pulled this item. This is the item for reviewing and approving the annual calendar of City Council meetings for 2025. I want to ask my colleagues to consider cancelling what is proposed as the currently scheduled September 2nd meeting since Monday, September 1st is Labor Day and hold a meeting instead on Tuesday, August 26th, which would be just one week earlier. The rest of the proposed calendar looks fine, so I would like to move the item with just that one change.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 5

So just to clarify, you want to move it to August 26th, we already have a meeting on August 19th.

Phil BacerraItem 5

Right, so it would be two weeks after that.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 5

Any comments from the council?

Jessie LopezItem 5

Go ahead, Councilman Lopez. Thank you. I would be supportive of X-ing out the second meeting in September, as you just mentioned. But I was going to propose the first meeting in September, but I was going to propose also canceling November 18th because of its proximity to the holidays and the closure on Friday.

Phil BacerraItem 5

I appreciate that. And I'll look to our city managers. The holiday is not the 28th instead of the 21st.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 5

of what month? November. November. The city is closed on the 21st and then the following week there's like three days and then Thanksgiving that's why she's traveling staff also traveling. So 21st is a holiday? City manager before you answer may I pretend I had a comment please? Okay go ahead. That appears to be the case

Yes, it's a closed Friday.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 5

We can't hear you.

It is a closed Friday.

Phil BacerraItem 5

Oh, it's just a typical Friday that we're closed. It's not a holiday.

Yes. Okay. Scheduled closed for City Hall.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 5

Councilmember Lubbock, you want no meeting on the 18th. Correct. Yeah, I support that as well because the holidays, people are traveling.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 5

Mr. City Manager, if we go to one meeting in September, one in August, one in September, and then one in November, is that going to push us back? we understand that you'll be adding additional items to the meetings prior

to and after that just means we work harder yes first I'd actually like to

Alvaro NuñezItem 5

instead of canceling the August 5th meeting I prefer that we cancel the July 2nd meeting so that would excuse me the July 1st meeting of 2025 that is the really close to fourth of July weekend it's my anniversary week so I usually try to take it off but so yeah that first meeting in July we have to adopt our budget by the end of June anyway so we did that this year I would like to continue that practice so then we can keep that first meeting in August

Alvaro NuñezItem 5

as well as the August 19th meeting and then I propose due to September having five Tuesdays, so we have a bonus Tuesday. Instead of moving, having that August 26th meeting, we just have a September 16th and September 30th meeting.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 5

I like that we get a break after the budget. Councilman Hernandez.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 5

Yes, thank you, Madam Mayor. I'm supportive of giving our staff some vacation and some space. I am supportive of the September request. I'm supportive of the November request as well. I think that's where I stand at the moment, Madam Mayor. Those will be my final comments.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 5

Councilor Panalosa.

David PenalozaItem 5

Thank you, Mayor. I know that usually the weird years are the, or months in November, like this year, are election years because we typically cancel that election day. But given that 2025 there aren't any elections, I would be supportive, I'm not supportive of canceling the meeting on July 1st just because I know that with the budget approval in June, we, we, I've been here long enough to know that sometimes we don't approve a budget in June and it goes into July. So it would be helpful to have those meetings in July to make sure that a budget's approved in time, on time. I am supportive of Council

David PenalozaItem 5

Member Lopez's request and Council Member Becerra's request of canceling November 18th because of its proximity to Thanksgiving Day and canceling September 2nd. However, I'm not supportive of adding one to August on the 26th. I'd rather say let's keep the 5th of August that staff had recommended canceling. Let's keep the 5th and the 19th in August and just cancel the 2nd, November 18th. And I would even suggest December 16th.

David PenalozaItem 5

But again, I don't know if there's a limit on how many we could cancel, but those will be my suggestions.

Jessie LopezItem 5

Council Member Lopez. I'll make a motion based on what I just heard. I'll second your motion. I'll take the motion. So let me proceed. We want to proceed with the calendar with the exception of, can you clarify, is it September 2nd or 16th that you're looking to cancel?

Phil BacerraItem 5

Well, so, let me compare notes with you. No September 2nd, no July 2nd, add August 5th, add September 30th, and no November 18th.

Jessie LopezItem 5

So can I? No. What I was going to propose was cancelling September 2nd, November 18th, also December 16th, and I would, to make up for that time, I would keep August 5th on the calendar and the 19th, but no third meeting in September. There you go.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 5

I already seconded it. Thank you. So, Madam City Click, you want to read back? I think Council Member Lopez has it.

Jennifer L. HallItem 5

Yes, a motion by Council Member Lopez, seconded by Mayor Mesquah, to approve the 2025 Council meeting schedule with the cancellation as recommended by staff of the January 7th meeting as stated on the calendar, and then canceling September 2nd, November 18th, December 16th, but continuing to keep a meeting on August 5th. And no additional meetings added to the schedule.

Phil BacerraItem 5

I didn't hear July 2nd.

Jennifer L. HallItem 5

She didn't say July. It's July 1st. That was not part of the motion. So that meeting would, so we would be having one meeting in January, two meetings in February, March, April, May, June, July, August, one meeting in September, two in October, one in November, and one in December.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 5

That is correct. There are no other comments as prepared to vote?

David PenalozaItem 5

I'll just ask you a question out loud. I know that there's conferences. NALEO is that week of July 20th, so we don't have to worry about NALEO, but there's the other conference. I don't want to say the acronym because I know I'm going to say it wrong.

David PenalozaItem 5

When is that? It's right with NALEO.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 5

Right with NALEO.

David PenalozaItem 5

Okay. So we're good there. Perfect. No, there's no meeting conflict.

Jennifer L. HallItem 5

Oh, there's no meeting. Okay, perfect. Mayor and City Council, if I may, we did look at the conference schedule as well, so we could let you know if there were any conflicts with that or the league, the national League of Cities and there were no conflicts.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 5

Excellent. Perfect. Thank you. Let's prepare to vote, please.

Jennifer L. HallItem 5

Again, a motion by Council Member Lopez, seconded by Mayor Emesqua to approve the calendar with the closure cancelled meetings on January 7th, September 2nd, November 18th, December 16th, and keeping the meeting on August 5th.

Mayor Emesqua.

Jennifer L. HallItem 5

VOTE 7 Ayes, no nays. Motion carries. Calendar is adopted as amended.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 5

Thank you. You can clap. That was kind of painful. Please clap.

Jennifer L. HallItem 5

All right. Mayor Mesqua, the next item pulled is item number 15 by Councilmember Hernandez.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 5

Thank you, Madam City Clerk. I want to thank the members of the public and residents who have reached out to the to my office in regards to the brand new park on King Street between 10th and Fairview. The residents of Articia Pilar Neighborhood Association recently emailed the city council in my office for their support of the naming of this brand new park space. This brand new park space is a $2 million investment in a historic Chicano neighborhood, Articia Pilar. Articia Pilar is an arts community. If you are a resident of the neighborhood, you know that your community is filled with vibrant art made by Chicano people.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 5

Murals that date back to the early 70s, whether it is the art that is reflected on Fremont Elementary that was created by Sergio Ocadiz in 1974, and Ocadiz being somebody that was mentored by Diego Rivera. The culture of murals began and were inspired by Santa Ana youth, youth that were from the neighborhood, youth like Marina Aguilera, who created murals all throughout Articia Pilar. In 1974, Marina Aguilera created a mural on the El Salvador Park handball courts. In 1976, she worked alongside youth and they created a mural on the outside of El Salvador Park's park pools, the walls that are on the outside of the pool space.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 5

Marina Aguilera also worked alongside youth in the 70s when they created murals that were located on Civic Center and Holly. At the time, that was Calle Ocho and Holly. These murals were buffed out shortly thereafter, but they went on to inspire a generation that created the La Raza murals in the 1990s. Those artists, Gilly Rodarte, Steven Martinez, Roger Montenegro, Jorge Ruiz, and Jaime, they instilled a sense of Latino and Chicano pride at the time. In 2023, fast forward, Marina Aguilera worked alongside leaders of the Articia Pilar Neighborhood Association

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 5

to instill a sense of pride and to help create an identity for the Articia Pilar Neighborhood Association. Marina began by unveiling the Articia Pilar Street Toppers. The street toppers were sponsored by Articia Pilar's own Neutral Ground, which is led by Pastor Nati Alvarado. Whereas in 2023, Marina Aguilera also unveiled the El Salvador Park Community Mural at the second annual Chicano Heritage Festival. This mural has since become a destination for generations of Santa Ana residents who were raised in this historic neighborhood. In 2023, the Santa Ana Artists Coalition worked with SAUSD and the family of Sergio Ocadiz

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 5

to restore the Sergio Ocadiz mural located at Fremont Elementary. In 2024, the Santa Ana Artists Coalition worked with the Neighborhood Association and my office to restore the La Raza murals that were created in the 1990s by youth from the neighborhood. They successfully restored the murals and worked hand-in-hand with the original artist. And whereas in 2024, on July 1st, the city opened a new park in Articia Pilar that is surrounded by beautiful murals and an archway bearing the name of the neighborhood, Articia Pilar.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 5

This art was a reflection of the community and its stories, bearing the images of the Arlady of the Pillar Church, Sariana's Tamale Factory, Mondo's Corner Store, and the neighborhood's name. This art was created by a resident who was raised in the Artisa Pilar neighborhood and has created murals in our city for over four decades, Marina Aguilera. This park is a space that is defined by the art and the residents that it surrounds. That is why I will be supportive of the Artisa Pilar Neighborhoods Association request to see this park named in alignment with the vision of the residents.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 5

I will place a motion on the floor to name the park, La Artistas Artisa Pilar Park. Park. This name honors the decades of art and art traditions that exist in Artisa Pilar neighborhood. This name also inspires a new generation of residents to engage in the arts. I'll put a motion on the floor for us to pass this park and name it La Artista Artisa Pilar

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Park. I'll second that. I'll second that. I just want clarification. It's Artisa Pilar, not Artisa Artisa Pilar.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

La Artistas Artisa Pilar Park. That is correct.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

So the way it came out from the staff is naming the park Articia Pilar.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

Yes, Articia Pilar Park. So we would be adding to the beginning, La Artistas Articia Pilar Park.

So we have a motion and a second.

Just to answer the question, the answer is yes. The council member wishes to add Artista in front.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

That is correct.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

There's a motion and a second, so let's prepare to vote. It's going to be an interesting night. La Artista y que? I got it.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Okay, let's just say that. Motion by Council Member Hernandez, seconded by Council Member Becerra, to name the park located between Fairview Street and King Street, La Artista, Artesia Pilar Park.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Madam City Clerk, you did good. There you go. Let me do a roll call.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Let's vote please.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Voters 7 ayes, no nays, motion carries.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Mayor, the next item pulled is item 31 by Councilmember Hernandez. Go ahead, Councilmember.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

Thank you, Madam Mayor. Just a brief comment on this item. I want to thank our city staff. I want to thank our city manager, Alvaro Nunez, and our public works department. This is a historic item because we're going to be focusing on the Bristol Street traffic signal synchronization, which is going to cost us upwards of $3,375,000 for the fiscal year 25 to 2026. What's exciting about this investment is that shortly after we finish the Bristol Street synchronization, we will allocate $5,148,000 in a grant request for fiscal year 25-2026 for the Fairview Street widening

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

from 17th Street to Trask. And that is a significant investment in Articia Pilar families in pedestrian safety, and in beautifying the historic neighborhood that is seeing arts around it. And so I just want to put a motion on the floor for us to move this item, and no additional comments.

David PenalozaItem 15

I'll second.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

No comments. Let's prepare to vote, please.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Motion by Council Member Hernandez, seconded by Council Member Penaloza, to approve the recommended actions for item 31, inclusive of two resolutions, and directing staff to incorporate the projects.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Councilmember Vasquez.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

VOTE 7 Ayes, no nays. Motion carries. Mayor and City Council, that concludes the consent calendar.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Okay. Perfect. At this time we're going to the business calendar. We're ending the consent calendar, going into the business. Item number 32, Madam City Clerk.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Item number 32 is a proposed ordinance related to crimes and law enforcement. Defer to the City Manager.

So we have a presentation. we're looking to amend chapter 10 of the municipal code. Commander Roland Andrade will do our presentation for us.

Good evening, Mayor, Mayor Portempo City Council. Actually, I will be doing the presentation this evening.

So what we have here today is a proposal for the Santa Ana Municipal Code ordinance adding and amend in various sections to our municipal code.

So the purpose is to pass the ordinance, requesting to pass the ordinance, provide updated enforcement mechanisms. It provides updated enforcement mechanisms. It aligns with the recent grants passed Supreme Court decision and also to improve the quality of life and public safety for residents, businesses, and visitors.

The ordinance amends four chapters in our current Santa Ana Municipal Code, which includes Chapter 10, which defines crimes and miscellaneous law and enforcement provisions. Chapter 31, which covers recreational parks and playgrounds. Chapter 33, which is streets, sidewalks, and public works. Chapter 36, which deals with traffic. and then it adds article 14 of chapter 10 which is the prohibiting interference with access to public property the changes in chapter 10 include unlawful

camping 402 storage of personal property in public places limitation of animals in the Civic Center there is an exception for service animals no vehicles in pedestrian areas in the Civic Center permit required to provide organized services in the Civic Center loitering on public benches obstructing public or private access prohibition of obstructive matter in the public right of way

additionally article 14 prohibits interfering with an access to public property section 10 8 51 sitting lying or sleeping or storing using maintaining or placing personal property on public property

chapter 31 chapter 31 is the storage of personal property in parks restroom and bathing facilities no loitering or sleeping chapter 33 interference with benches or bus shelters and then chapter 36 is standing in medium storage of property in medium median so in regards to enforcement the intent here is that any person who violates this article may be charged with an infraction or a misdemeanor at the direction of the sighting officer in addition to any other remedy allowed by law any person who violates a provision of this article

is subject to criminal sanctions, civil actions, and administrative penalties pursuant to section 1A of the Sanhedrin Municipal Code, which is the fines, penalties, and whatnot. All remedies prescribed under this article are cumulative, and the election of one or more remedy does not bar the city from the pursuit of any other remedy to enforce this article. An individual charged with violation of this article, in lieu of being taken in jail, may at the election of the sighting police officer and with consent of the individual be taken to a facility providing social services related to

mental health housing or substance abuse treatment and that concludes my presentation and I'm ready to answer any questions thank you thank you chief

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

before I open it for questions I just want to I want to read it again what you said here as far as enforcement in case anybody missed it at home right here item number item d states an individual charge violation of this article in lieu of being taken to jail in lieu of may at the election of the sighting officer and with consent of the individual be taken to a facility providing social services related to mental health housing and or substance abuse treatment so thank you open up for comments if you'd like to speak

Phil BacerraItem 15

please raise councillor becerra thank you madam mayor i think it's very important to highlight some of the things that our city has done prior to bringing this ordinance forward. The city of Santa Ana has implemented two outreach and engagement teams to connect unsheltered persons with needed resources. In 2022, our city opened up the navigation center, which happens to be located in my ward. It operates 24 hours a day, seven days a week. The center provides 200 beds for men, women, couples, and families to provide shelter to homeless persons in the city of Santa Ana.

Phil BacerraItem 15

Four critical parts of our city's mission, as stated on the front of the agenda for each of our city council meetings, are to ensure public safety, a prosperous economic environment, opportunities for our youth, and a high quality of life for residents. There are two sections of this ordinance that illustrates how we can do that. first one is whereas the city of santiana is committed to ensuring the safety health and general welfare of all of its residents visitors and businesses and whereas as part of that commitment has been and continues to be the obligation of the city to keep public keep the

Phil BacerraItem 15

public areas clean and available for public use and to ensure access by the public to all property both public and private by the disabled, elderly, families, children, and visitors to the city of Santa Ana. I believe that this ordinance will help us achieve that, so I will be supporting it, and I want to thank Mayor Mesquah for advocating for this ordinance to be brought forward, and I also want to thank our city manager and his team and our city attorney and acting chief Rodriguez and our police for all the work that you guys did on this ordinance. Before I make a motion to approve this thing, because I'm really excited to

Phil BacerraItem 15

get this on the books. I do have one question that's for our city attorney. Is there any reason why our council couldn't modify the proposed municode sections 10-851H6 and 7 and 10-100A6 and 7 to increase the distance that a person can be to an ATM, electronic vehicle, charging station, or a parking pay station or a parking meter from 10 feet to 20 feet. And I ask that because of all places, the city and county of San Francisco had a voter-approved measure many years ago

Phil BacerraItem 15

that actually the voters approved to increase that distance to 20 feet. But I just want to make sure we would be able to do that here.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 15

I'm not aware of any legal restriction that would restrict you to just 10 feet. And if it's the council's desire to go with a longer, further distance, you can do that.

Phil BacerraItem 15

So I'm going to make a motion to approve this with the changes to 10-851H6 and 7 and 10-100A6 and 7 to increase the distance from 10 feet to 20 feet.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

I'll second your motion. Thank you for your comments. And I know there's going to probably others want to speak. I just want to be clear that this is not an item to say everybody's going to jail. Because when we leave tonight, people will say that. They want to put them in jail. No, we do not. However, every single day, and I mean every day, maybe every once in a while, I don't get it. I get emails with pictures, and I'm sure council members up here do. I hope they do. I get the pictures with the guy shooting up, sticking the needle in his arm, the naked person running around, the person with their pants down defecating,

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

the person the people on first street on bristol you know just somebody leaned over just they look like they're dead we're not quite sure you know I call Colt on a regular basis they respond they and I if you use the app you know that they do respond they do a phenomenal job which is our multidisciplinary team of Colt City which includes CityNet our police officers and our city staff and this just makes things better in Santa Ana and it will give our city staff CityNet our

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

police department the tools that they need to offer services and to say okay you need mental health service we're going to connect you to the county in no way shape or form am I saying it in this or I would hope none of us up here would say that you know we're just gonna say well this is just a county issue it is a county issue our county board of supervisors should also be doing more Santa Ana has done a lot mr. city manager I believe 29 million for the shelter 29 million for

our homeless support services that includes the shelter homeless support

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

services and then 3.5 million for city net 3.6 just for city net 3.6 for city net and we own the shelter in santa anna 200 beds houses families single men and women and then we also have a county shelter yeah that has 400 beds so when i speak to officers what i hear is those that are on the street the majority of them are the resistant population they don't want to go in to a shelter or program they don't want to have a curfew they don't want to follow the rules they prefer to run our streets, scare our children, make our streets unsafe. And this is really about

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

the quality of life. We deserve it. Just like Irvine and Orange and other cities, we deserve it in Santa Ana. And I would hope that this would pass because our constituents, if you talk to all of them, the majority of them, Prop 36 in this city passed overwhelmingly by the voters. It's, the numbers are there you can look at it why did they vote for it because they want our city safe and they want a good quality of life and so I'm gonna also support this item so thank you Councilman Becerra I'm Councilman Penelosa

David PenalozaItem 15

thank you mayor Mascua I just want to thank the police department and our city manager and staff and you mayor for your leadership on this for bringing this forward I know that it's something that that we have been trying our best to address over the last, not just two years forward, but decades, the city of San Ana has been at the forefront of doing the best we can to address this. Just last night at the Memorial Park Neighborhood Association meeting, a resident followed me outside as I was leaving and she said, hey, I live right down the street at these apartments and I'm just trying to go to work.

David PenalozaItem 15

I'm just trying to go pull out of my garage in the morning and go to work. And there's a truck of a woman that's sleeping in the alley in her truck, and I just want to go to work. That's it. Can you help me remove her? So I reached out to Petey, and I drove through the alley myself as I left the meeting, and sure enough, there was a truck that looked like someone had been living in it. I thought it was just a woman. They sighted the truck, and then I found out through our police department that there wasn't just one not two not three not four not five not

David PenalozaItem 15

six not seven not eight but nine cats inside the truck in in crates uh multiple cats and all alive living inside that truck in our alley so the the woman who reported this to me just wants to go to work that's it without having to wait and try to and do a 10-point turn to get out of her driveway and here she's doing this at 4 in the morning because somebody you know I don't know their story I don't know the the the mental

David PenalozaItem 15

health issues that they're probably facing but that is not okay our residents are tired of it our residents just want to live their lives

David PenalozaItem 15

take care of the families and go home and enjoy the neighborhood. And they can. So I'm very happy to support this. Another thing to realize is that every other city in the county is slowly moving in this direction to aggressively enforce their anti-camping ordinances. And guess what that's going to do? Where is the county jail located? It's in our city, in the city of Santa Ana. The implications and impacts that that's going to have to our city, and not just to our city, but to our residents,

David PenalozaItem 15

it is going to get worse if we don't also get in front of it and address the issue. So thank you, Mayor Mascua. Thank you, city staff. But I am happy to support this ordinance as it is tonight.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Thank you. Council Member Vasquez.

Benjamin VazquezItem 15

I want to thank my peers, and I agree with their sentiments. and everything they said. Can you speak a little louder? I'm sorry. I want to agree. I want to agree with your sentiments and everything you said with my peers up here. And Councilmember Penalosa mentioned other cities are getting more aggressive as well and more of the houseless population will end up in Santa Ana. And my solution would be to let's sue the sheriff department to not release other cities' houses into Santa Ana. Let them bust them back. They used to do that at Music and bust them to Santa Ana, right?

Benjamin VazquezItem 15

So we should take them to court and take them and sue them back. As far as enforcement, I think we could do four quality of life teams instead of two, and that would help up so much more. What happens when we have these anti-encampment laws or other cities tried, it failed in LA. The encampments were gone. A few people were housed only for the encampments to come back increase in population. There's an article in the LA Times from March 7, 2024, right? There's studies on encampment, these kind of resolutions where there's a 151% increase

Benjamin VazquezItem 15

in overdose mortalities. We're going to give people the death penalty with this. There's an 11% reduction in life expectancy of unhoused people, a 50% increase in hospitalizations. There's a 38% decrease in medication for opiate use disorder initiations. So less people are getting treatment for opiate use when we have these kind of laws. So we've seen there's studies, there's studies across the country who have done this, who have been strong on this on the exact things that we're talking about instead of mitigating and

Benjamin VazquezItem 15

managing by suing the sheriff by increasing the quality of life team and making sure we increase housing for families we have rent control measure cc pass we're going to keep families in their house we're going to have sprint stabilization we have a lot of things on the consent calendar that helps the unhoused. We passed a few things there and a few things last meeting. We're doing a great job and what we need is housing. This is going to create a kind of unhoused population that we haven't seen in Santa Ana that you see in Skid Row in LA. You're going to see people who are

Benjamin VazquezItem 15

going to be more just in need who you know the you know the the black smut on their face and on their feet with no shoes and holes in there and their dirty socks we don't see that here as often in San Ana like we do in other cities in San Diego and LA as they walk through those kid rows this is going to be ours our city because this type of enforcement has proven not to work across the nation. So this is why I can't support this. I agree with your sentiment, but there's other ways by suing the sheriff, having more quality of life teams, having a quality of life teams just

Benjamin VazquezItem 15

for parks, want to be on call so they come when we need them, and making sure, and I'm for enforcing the laws of the land. When you break a law on your cot, well, you're going to go to jail. those things that you do I'm okay with that but homelessness should not be a crime being poor should not be a crime we have families who come to this city as they've come for the last hundred years to live here from Mexico undocumented families who can't get a shelter we will not take him in a shelter if you show up day one even if you're in SA USD we will not take those families I know for a

Benjamin VazquezItem 15

fact that we we try to put families in shelters and our shelter will not take undocumented families with kids and SAUSD because they arrived a week ago so these are the kind of things we're talking about

David PenalozaItem 15

council member Panelaissa thank you mayor I just wanted to to to comment on councilmember Vasquez's comment about the sheriff's release procedures we've had that conversation before and I think that now for years we never had a representative that was from Santa Ana at the County Board of Supervisors and now we have Supervisor Sarmiento so I would hope that we all send letters to him maybe the city we could send an official letter of the policy that he could potentially change with the sheriff's department that he oversees so I would hope that we all lean on our supervisor and and make sure that those

David PenalozaItem 15

see what we could work on changing that release instead of going to sue from one day to the next. Let's work with the Santa Ana rep that we have on the county board of supervisors so that we can make that change possible. That's it, Mayor.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Thank you. Councilman Hernandez.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

Thank you, Madam Mayor. This is an important conversation for every single resident who lives in our city. No matter what district you live in, this is a conversation that is important to you, and it's a conversation that's important to us. My concerns are rooted in the fact that our Senan Unified School District has thousands of students who are McKinney-Vento students. What does that mean? It means that there are thousands of students who may be experiencing homelessness, as defined by either living on a couch, sharing a room, living in a hotel, or sleeping in their cars.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

Many students in our district, unfortunately, are going to go to school tomorrow, and they're going to wake up beginning their day in a car. That is not a quality of life for anybody, but we as a city should be taking on a holistic approach to addressing the causes of poverty so that a child can be housed. We know that housing affects a student's quality of education and their ability to successfully retain the education that is in front of them. I'm concerned and worried that policies like this will increase police interactions with people who are not homeless, people who may go to a park to nap on a bench.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

Many residents who live by Flower Park, there's a senior complex there. On any given day, you'll see seniors sitting on a bench, eating sunflower seeds, having some food with their husband or wife. Oftentimes, these seniors will nap on a bench. It may be 30 minutes, it may be them soaking up the sun, but there's language that states no person shall sit in any movable chair, bucket, crate, cooler, or similar personnel property, sleep or lay down upon a public right-of-way street, park, public plaza, or the civic center. There are laws that we have that will allow us to enforce anti-camping ordinances,

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

but language that identifies movable chairs, a crate, how many of us have been to a park and seeing someone sit on a cooler. Under this ordinance, we would not be able to do that. Police would be able to enforce it, treat you like you are somebody who is homeless, and give you the option to either go to the shelter or get a ticket. This is not how we're going to solve the issue of homelessness. The concern that I have is that this is going to exasperate the issue in isolated areas. What are those isolated areas? Well, when people are released from jail at 2 a.m. in the morning, they're going to be

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

released into the Flower Park neighborhood, into the Washington Square neighborhood, into Articia Pilar, into our riverbeds, into the downtown. What we should do is hold our neighboring cities accountable to do their part. We should hold our sheriff accountable to not use Santa Ana as a dumping ground. And we should focus our efforts on having our police solve violent crimes. We should have our police officers focus on removing violent criminals who are camping on public property. And we should focus on deterring the issue of people experiencing homelessness by getting them the shelter that they need.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

What are the ways that we can tackle homelessness? We can take a collaborative approach by bringing social workers together. We can bring foster agencies together like Orangewood. There's a high percentage of people experiencing homelessness that are in the foster system. There are resources that exist. We recently approved Elimination Foundation funding for Santa Anita to house foster youth. I want us to take a preventative approach here, not a punitive one. I think that this is a policy that will mirror the public intoxication policy. And as we know, we are still struggling with the success of that policy.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

At this moment, I don't think that this policy is going to help us solve homelessness. I think it will put our city in a position where we may face litigation for violating people's rights. And that is why I'm not supportive of this ordinance. The criminalization of our community is not how we're going to solve homelessness. We can only solve homelessness by having a collaborative approach and having a people first approach. Giving people who are houseless tickets and jailing them is only going to make them finding the ability to find their footing almost nearly impossible. Let's help them find the best resources and programs

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

to help them address their substance abuse. Let's do more case management. Let's do more domestic violence resources. Maybe some of the people who are houseless are escaping domestic violence. Foster youth. Maybe there's somebody who is, you know, in and out of the jail system because of the fact that they are 19 years old and they don't have family. We can leverage these unfortunate circumstances with the respective organizations that are actively doing it. I'm very concerned that this policy is not going to address homelessness. And that'll be my final comment. Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Thank you, Council Member Sarri.

Phil BacerraItem 15

Thank you, Madam Mayor. This ordinance isn't going to solve homelessness. That's not what it is going to do. What it's going to do is prioritize our residents who use the buses, use the parks, walk to school, walk to the market. That's what it's going to do. It's going to prioritize our residents over out of town criminals. One thing I want to clarify that Council Member Hernandez said about, you know, criminalizing folks for sitting on a chair or some sort of movable item that they could sit on. If you read further down in that same subsection, it says, it shall not be a violation of subsection

Phil BacerraItem 15

act, I'm sorry, H, for a person to sit for purposes of viewing a legally conducted parade or similar lawful or permitted event. So this isn't going to just criminalize everybody because they sat down somewhere in a park. Let's be clear that that's a little overreach there. And then the whole suing the sheriff thing, it's remarkable that certain folks on this council are so dead set on vilifying law enforcement that rather than prioritize, uplift our residents, instead they'd rather attack law enforcement. So maybe perhaps if you guys close your eyes

Phil BacerraItem 15

and pictured some of the folks that are passed out at the bus stops as police officers, maybe you'd want to move them along and maybe criminalize them because that's what you guys are always talking about doing. So in this case here, let's prioritize our residents. Let's keep the buses, the bus stops clean let's keep our parks clean and let's pass this ordinance tonight thank you

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

thank you I'd just like to comment you somebody brought up McKinney Vento students you know the school district is responsible to provide housing and transportation to the many McKinney Vento students that they have but yet we're being asked to again carry that weight as a city we carry the weight of the flood channels we carry the weight of the railroads we carry the weight of everything because we're like Mikey with the cereal we do everything but who does it affect it affects our constituents I live in Morrison Park homeless people go through there as well it doesn't they're not saying well we're only gonna say in our

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

discipline art no there they go everywhere I've had to call the police to say hey this guy's hooking in cars in my neighborhood. He's up to something. They come out, he had a warrant. And I hope that our constituents watching at home and those of you that are here heard the presentation, I believe, at the last meeting when our city manager talked about when they were on the railroads, who they came in contact with. Men and women who have rap sheets for murder. Let me say that again. Murder. Assault with a deadly weapon. Rape. So yes, some of them have mental health issues no doubt no doubt and i'd love to offer them services if

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

they take it but most of them come out maybe they're coming out of jail and they have criminal rap sheets that are really long and they're very violent so last night a couple of us received emails and photos of a business in the city on birch street i believe it is and the homeless people were throwing this homeless person was throwing rocks at their vehicles shattering their windows. They called the PD. The PD went out. The person was gone. This is like the third time. So what are they going to do? They're going to take their business up and leave the city of Santa Ana.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

That's what they're going to do. I can print the picture of the naked woman in Memorial Park that gets sent to me and Councilman Panalosa by constituents though that are at the park with their children and she's doing god-awful things in public naked and then when the police get there they take her in she's back within one day so this is not about harassing the men and women that are watching a basketball game or having a picnic and i meet with the seniors on a regular basis you know what the seniors tell me i meet with i meet with them in the apartments i go have lunch with

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

them. They don't want the homeless people slash criminals around their apartments. They don't. So I'm not sure, you know, where you're getting that. I'd love to hear from those people that say, I'm okay with the homeless mayor, council members. We're okay with the homeless. So, and you know, we talk about creating another cult team and, you know, just so you all know, those take police officers and we're still short. How many police officers, chief?

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

I'm sorry 41 we're still down 41 police officers and Every meeting that we have tonight included we have council members up here Bashing police I wouldn't want to come and work here either if I was a police officer Why I am NOT supported by the council up here a few of them. It's constant It's constant constant constant and the lawsuit. I do not want to spend general fund money suing the sheriff That is not the answer in my humble opinion. We need to take action for our constituents and it's about our quality of life.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

I don't know about the other council members if they're not receiving the same pictures and emails that I am getting, I am sorry, but naked pictures, defecation, masturbation, breaking into cars, breaking into homes, you know, doing terrible things in our city. and we cannot sit back and say, well, we're not going to do anything. However, if it happens to you personally, or anybody up here sitting in this council personally, the tone will change. So why do we have to wait until we have another victim? We've had children assaulted on bus stops. City managers, city staff have done a great job. They're out cleaning the bus stops.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

They're working, again, with Caltrans. They're working with everybody you possibly can. You're in contact with the supervisor, you know, he's agreed to put up a pay for half the fence along the channel on Flower Street, so is that correct?

Not half, but he did give us $100,000.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Not half, okay. I can't hear you, so he did give us some funding.

$100,000.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Okay, cost $350,000.

Well, it's going to be a million all the way to Sunflower, but that's it, yes, $350,000.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

So he gave us $100,000.

Yes, he did. That's a great start. I've been meeting with him on a continual basis to gain that level of cooperation and support.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

That's a great start, Mr. City Manager. I appreciate that. So I am supporting this item because since I've been sitting up here, the constituents that I talk to, and I am citywide, I am not by ward, and every single coffee with the Mayor I have, when I meet with the neighborhood association leaders, and the police chief is always with us, Commander Andrade, the City Manager, City staff, it's the same request. Mayor, we have a homeless problem. Mayor, we have a crime problem. Mayor, what are you doing? Mayor, what is the city doing? Mayor, why doesn't the council do this? Why aren't they doing that?

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

So what I would say is that I am going to support this item. I wholeheartedly 100%. It is not about putting them in jail. It is saying, here's a service for you. You don't want it. Here's another option. Here's a shelter for you. We provide wraparound services. Here's a county shelter for you.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

And then if it comes down to where you're defecating in the yard or you're robbing the 7-eleven, yes, you are going to get arrested. I don't know about you guys, but I don't even go into 7-elevens anymore. I don't.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

So I am supporting this item, and I will support our police department and our city manager and our city staff that do a phenomenal job in addressing this. Our city, I think Councilman Penelosa said it, we have done so much for the homeless situation. We are leading that. We can go to every conference and sit on a panel and answer questions about all the amazing things that we've done for the homeless people we cannot do it all somebody will say well you should get a mental health services i would love to please ask the board of supervisors to give us some of that eight billion dollars that's in their budget and then

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

we will do it because we know how to do it our city manager knows how to do it with his staff we can't do it we don't have the money too we do not have the funding so let's do what we can with what we have. So with that I will be supporting the item. Any other comments? Councilmember Vasquez.

Councilmember Vasquez.

Benjamin VazquezItem 15

Thank you again. Once again I agree with your sentiments and I hear you and of the people and thank you Councilmember Bacetta for saying this is not solving for the houselessness. It's not solving it. And people don't disappear. People don't go away. If they go to jail, they go to jail for a night or the weekend and come out even in more despair because all their belongings are gone and they're going to have to collect enough things to survive that night. They become more desperate as they come in and out of jail.

Benjamin VazquezItem 15

And this is not solving for homelessness in Santa Ana. This is not solving for all those things just described. It's going to make people become more desperate as they're in and out of jail. This is not solving for the things that we're talking about. It is not solving for homelessness. As far as we do need to defend our residents in Santa Ana against the homeless of other cities. And that's why I'm saying let's have that conversation with the sheriff.

Benjamin VazquezItem 15

And if that conversation, well, we'll up it up to suing the sheriff, right? There's conversations we can have with the courts. They could Zoom everybody from their jail cells and Zoom in their courts instead of bringing them here to come to the main court. We don't have to bring them here. We can figure it out. There can be conversations, but let them know. let them know it's going to end up going to court if they don't come talking our way that the homeless of other cities should not be in Santa Ana you could be tough with the poorest people in this community but you can't stand up to a sheriff come on now stand up to the people

Benjamin VazquezItem 15

who have that strength stand up to the people that dropped other folks's problems in Santa Ana stand up for Santa Ana that's why we tell the sheriffs we we could sue you we could talk to the courts about fixing things. We could talk to the judges that support us and making sure we do mitigate and we solve for houselessness in Santa Ana. This is a solution to bring down the numbers in Santa Ana when we talk to the sheriff. And if we have to, we sue the sheriff. But those conversations have to start somewhere. We're not going to ignore it. We already tried to sue the supervisors. They sent it back. The judge sent it back.

Benjamin VazquezItem 15

Sue the sheriff, he's in charge. We tried it, right? Before we came on, they tried to sue the supervisors. The judge sent it back. So now we talk to the sheriff, and if we have to, we sue the sheriff to protect the people of Santa Ana so we can mitigate this issue that we have here and deal with our own. Thank you.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

Mayor Pro Tem.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

Thank you, Mayor. I have a few edits I'd like to see to the ordinance, Madam City Attorney. So the first item is Section 31.2.12.1. Now it's very long.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

Hang on. Let me...

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 15

Can you make references to the page numbers at the bottom right-hand corner?

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

32-7 or it's page 1074 of the combined PDF.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 15

Do you have a document in front of you that has page numbers of 17? It's an ordinance, a copy of the actual ordinance. I believe it's page 14. You have an agenda with a clip on it. Okay. It was placed by your side, yes.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

Okay. It's page 4 of 17. There we go. Thank you.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

Oh, wait. Hold on.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

Sorry. All right. Page 4 of 17. I would like to remove, use a vehicle for human habitation, remove to live in a vehicle, the person having with them blankets, pillows, and medical waste that is stored in buckets, bottles, or similar containers from A3. And I'll explain to you why I'm requesting that. Sorry, that's 10-401.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

So, I don't know who here has been homeless or have had to sleep in their vehicle before, but I know that I've slept in a vehicle before, not because I'm homeless, but whether you're tired, driving long distances, traveling, you need to pull over, maybe you went out too much and needed to sleep in your car before you drove home, that shouldn't be a crime. That shouldn't be a crime. And I have a blanket and pillow in the trunk of my car.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

That shouldn't be a crime. And to me, I'm just striking out language that I think is too broad that would otherwise encompass too many activities that regular people might do, our regular residents. Some of our residents travel very far for work. Sometimes I drive an hour and a half to LA County, to Riverside County to work. Things happen. And I don't think that that should be criminalized. I also want to say that, you know, this is a very important issue for everyone. Our residents, it's the number one issue for residents. It's the number one issue for everyone on this dais.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

But I also want to remind my colleagues, not every person who's homeless is a criminal. My aunt was homeless. My aunt slept in her car with her two daughters because they couldn't find housing for a time and they were fine. They eventually found us a place to live.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

But let's just make sure that yes there are people who are homeless who are criminals and there are people who are criminal who are not homeless. And so let's make sure that when we talk about people who sleep in their cars or or houseless they're not all criminals so I would like to strike some of those provisions I think they're too broad I also think the medical waste stored in buckets bottles or similar containers I I know I didn't see a definition for medical waste like is a band-aid medical ways is gauze after I got my blood drawn medical waste again it's just very broad I imagine you might be thinking of

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

hyperdermic needles or something like that but if that's the case let's say it but if someone who is diabetic or had an EpiPen and they use an EpiPen is that medical waste being stored in their vehicle again I think that's not the intention of the ordinance but I think the language is very broad for section same section C or says camp paraphernalia I'd like to remove hammocks Again, you know, if you're at a park, maybe it's just me, but using a hammock at the park seems like a pretty great spring afternoon. Again, it just seems very broad.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

I can understand tarps, cots, beds. Actually, I think tarps might be a little bit broad too. I'm not sure if that includes pitching like an event tent or not, right? Like maybe you don't have a permanent event because in the city, I think if you're in the park, you have fewer than 10 people. Right, you might pitch up something to block the sun that summer afternoon So I think those two tarpaulins and hammocks are quite broad. I think beds cots and sleeping bags make sense I'll just go in order then I'll try the next part is section

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

10-8 5 subdivision e That is page, that is page.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

Yes, I think so.

Okay.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

Yes. So this is the one that I think council member Hernandez had mentioned regarding movable chair, bucket crate, cooler, similar personal items. properties to sleep lay down public right away. Now, I do understand Council Member Sarah called out subsection I that said it shall not be a violation of sex session eight for a person to sit for purposes of viewing a legally conducted parade or similar lawful or permitted event. So again, it's not clear to me what a permanent, excuse me, similar lawful or permitted event is. For example, if I'm meeting with my friends, five of us are having a hangout in the park,

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

and we do have our cooler we have our you know foldable chairs is that a violation because it's I mean I guess it's lawful but it's not permitted I just would like to see more clarification of that or specificity to make sure that we're not overly broad or just remove movable chair and cooler like that's that's a pretty common sense thing right people have coolers at the park when you picnic people bring their foldable chairs to the park when you have picnics I think keeping bucket crater other similar personal properties

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

enough to encompass I think what we're trying to go for there for section 10 10-852 enforcement, that's page 12 of 17.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

I'd actually like to strike subsection D and move that, or we can leave subsection D, but I would like to actually make it a requirement that officers offer to take someone to a facility providing social services related to mental health housing and or substance abuse treatment for individuals who are cited under this provision if possible section 10-852 enforcement that's page 12 of 17 I know madam mayor I think what you mentioned regarding you know giving the opportunity to our officers to

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

provide alternative services to ensure that people get mental health treatment housing and substance abuse treatment is important to us, but let's make sure we do it. Why would it not be a part of our interaction with anyone who is homeless or is being cited under this to say, hey, we can take you to a shelter, we can take you to social services or mental health services? I think I see Mr. Kaminsky coming up here, so I'd like to hear from him.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Yeah, I think it's good and I support that. So Chief, did you want to make comments?

But just to clarify though, so you notice this issue and with the consent of the individual,

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Can you speak louder? I'm sorry, I'm sure you're right. The fan's on.

I think part of it is not so much a disagreement. So, because we kept talking about common sense enforcement. We agree, right? There's no circumstance where the city wants to arrest somebody, put them in jail, only to come out with no sense of help, right? And in this section, I agree with the sentiment of common sense. I just want to address that this is not an intent for us just to simply arrest people for any particular reason, right? And the key component here is with the consent on the individual, right? It is that person who's resistant.

So part of our ongoing meetings with the county supervisor, the Department of Social Services, the Department of Public Health is exactly that, right? So that we are allowed to have the capability so that, you know, sometimes even with their their folks are willing to take some level of help. That's the key. So we do appreciate that. I just want to address this sense that somehow we went thinking about that at a given moment. Because yes, we understand the broadness. But again, it's allowing for an officer to apply common sense, be able to offer the help, be able to take the person who accepts the help,

but again, not without consent. And I think that's critical to understand, especially when we review sections such as this one.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

I understand that, but my point to this is more specific to at the time of interaction with an individual who the officer is looking to cite this item, I would like to ensure that our officer says, I can cite you or I can take you to a shelter or provide these other services. What would you prefer? If they're unable to respond, if they are clearly not all, you know, cognizant of what's going on that's that's a different situation but you know the language here says an individual charged with a violation of this article in lieu of being taken to jail may at the election of the sighting

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

police officer and with a consent and individual be taken to a facility so that still leaves a discretion to the officer at the time of charge right so I want to say before all of that happens you give them that opportunity because if our goal is to make sure people get these services and stay off the streets and stay out of jail then let's make sure that's a part of our interaction if did you want to add something of course we can't force anyone to go take the

resources so we're saying the same thing okay thank you yes and I understand that many might not I'm sorry yes thank you mayor for Tim and that's exactly the intent here is that we continue to offer these services but I also want to remind or just say that this ordinance is not meant for people who are unhoused it's it's meant for various trying to balance the public health and public safety because we have been receiving a lot of calls regarding you know public defecation as the mayor mentioned recently last night I think there were

several calls regarding unpermitted fires so it allows us to address some of of these other conduct or behavior that's not permitted that can have impact in our public spaces.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

I totally agree with you, and I think that, you know, being homeless or being unhoused is not a crime, but starting fires, creating dangerous situations, becoming nuisances, breaking into backyards, those are crimes, and we should hold people accountable. I just want to make sure that with the many edits to this ordinance that we in my opinion hone in on the things that are not going to encompass some of the activities that any regular resident might do moving on so we have section okay now the section 31-2 so

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

So this is restroom and bathing facilities.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

It's like 12, it's the bottom of page 12.

Benjamin VazquezItem 15

You're at six minutes.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Let me come back to you and then you can finish.

Okay.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Sorry. Councilman Hernandez and Becerra to go next. Councilman Hernandez.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

Thank you, Madam Mayor. I'll be brief with my comment. Just a quick question.

Jessie LopezItem 15

Are you seeing my request to speak on your end?

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

I don't see anything here. So just that's why I asked you to have your mic up. Thank you.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

Thank you, Madam Mayor. I'll be brief with my comments. I just wanted to direct my neighbor's attention to our HTTPS. . . . . . . . . www.santaana.org slash homeless services dash data slash dashboard. I encourage you to go to this link. And what you'll see is historical census and daily census on the number of occupied beds that we have in our city. The number of occupied beds that we currently have is 195. The demographic of what makes up that 195 is 108 males, 86 females, 44 families, 17 parents, parents, 23 children.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

The largest demographic of people in our shelter is 55 to 64, many of whom are seniors. And transitional aged youth, 18 to 24, the amount is 12. The number of beds that we have available, members of the public ready? Can I get a head nod somewhere? We only have five beds available.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

Five.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

Where are we going to put everyone else? in your neighborhood. That's lazy. This is irresponsible. It's reckless. We should be allocating money towards real solutions. We should absolutely enforce anti-camping laws if someone is sleeping on a bench, someone is sleeping in front of city hall, someone is sleeping in public property. But we should be very mindful that we also only have five beds available. So if we're going to present this as a solution, I'd like to know what do we do once we fill those five beds and we have none available? What is the solution then for our police chief or city manager?

So I can say this, and I appreciate the frustration, right?

but the city of Santa probably spends more than anybody in the county on homeless services right maybe for our next council meeting we'll provide an update data as regarding the hardest supporting assistance that the city has built right but just to give you a comparison more like you mentioned so So City of Santa Ana has 200 beds as you indicate. The biggest shelter in Orange County run by a local jurisdiction, City of Santa Ana. The biggest shelter run by the county in the City of Santa Ana, 400 beds.

However, we live in it with access to the county beds. But that means we have technically in the City of Santa Ana capability to probably house at least 600 folks if they're based here in Santa Ana. So for us, it's not simply falling on the city to do a little bit more. We've done, I think, more than our share. So we will continue to do more. But I'll give you a comparison. City of the Navigation Center just north of us, that just got built in the city of Gardner Grove as an example for comparison.

So it's 700, excuse me, 70 beds, right? And so the agreement with the court system and so I can probably provide a little bit more historical context. It's, again, it's based in Garden Grove for, and it's for 70 beds. And that navigation center is supposed to assist homeless services for City of Garden Grove, City of Fountain Valley, and city of Westminster with a combined population about 340,000 so and again to give the comparison three cities population about 320,000 340,000 70 bed

navigation center city of Santana one city to 110,000 people 200 beds and the first one actually in the county to do it so I highlight to say it's not a lazy that component that the city has in met some of these challenges we've been at the at the forefront of this type of response and again I'm the newest city manager we've hired right going into my seventh month here but that's one of the focal points you see us now have that level of cooperation with the supervisor's office to ensure we we work in collaborative manner but but again it

can't fall just on a city components to address those issues and and so that that's a key aspect right so our officers should be able to contact the Department of Adult Protective Services for the county and somebody should respond hey we have an adult like you said 55 to 65 they need help right we don't have that access Department of Public Health this person is really really sick we need to take somebody to the hospital somebody takes responsibility we still don't have that complete access, right? And so we understand this, the county also faces some challenges. So our objective is how do we mitigate that to ensure

that those key components don't fall in the cracks? But again, $29 million, that's the homeless services commitment the city has on those type of services, just to clarify.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

Thank you, Mr. City Manager. And part of what the city's done is we have made robust efforts to strengthen our homeless prevention strategies. But I wanted to be realistic with our residents by giving you the data, the data that exists and is updated on a daily basis. Since July of 2024, we have had 391 outreach contacts, 354 people experienced case management, 113 street exits, 1,063 calls dispatched. We housed four people in August. We had 521 outreach contacts, case management. We managed 352. We had 120 street exits, 1205 calls dispatch.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

We housed eight people. September 2024, we had 492 outreach contacts, 270 case management. Case management's going down. Street exits, we have 90. Calls for service dispatch, 1301. Numbers are going up. Housed only three. In October, we've housed only four. So that's my concern, Mr. City Manager, is the success rate that we have presently in the city as to the people that we're doing case management with, that we're doing outreach with, the numbers are there, but there's a disconnect as to who we're housing. I want us to strengthen housing people rather than strengthen ticketing, criminalization,

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

and the jailing of people who can't afford to pay for tickets from the first place, can't afford to pay for housing in the first place. And so I wanted to give our residents that data to support, you know, a growing concern that we all have and that's how do we solve the issue of homelessness and get people housed. So I wanted to give people the data so they can see just how robust these efforts are. Hundreds of people are being case managed but yet we're still struggling to effectively get into the double digits of housing people. I would like to see our city manager work with our police chief

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

to strengthen our efforts to house people and maybe that is having a much broader coalition of nonprofit partners across the county, identifying which of these residents who are experiencing homelessness are not from our city, and then leveraging them over to get services in Garden Grove. If we have people who are from Garden Grove, Westminster, or the respective other cities that you listed, maybe it's worth us looking at them being housed at that shelter to open up some more beds for us in Santa Ana. If I saw that level of direction here, I would probably feel more supportive, given that

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

We only have five beds and we're extremely limited. I'm concerned that this won't be a very effective policy. Thank you, sir.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Councilwoman Becerra and the Councilwoman Lopez, please. I'll go back to you.

Phil BacerraItem 15

Thank you, Mayor. A couple of things. I if I was from another city, I would love what I'm hearing from some of my colleagues up here. But we've got to shoulder everything. What are we going to do once they're dumped here? What are we going to do with it? Right? We're going to sue the sheriff. But yet at the same time while they're here before we get through the process of suing the sheriff What are we gonna do? We have hard-working people here that are Santa Ana residents That can't use a bus stop because it's been taken over by somebody who's turned it into their drug consumption site Okay

Phil BacerraItem 15

33 other cities would be happy to hear that some of my colleagues up here believe that somehow some way the responsibility for housing all the homeless in Orange County, hell maybe California, should fall on Santa Ana's shoulders. I respectfully disagree with that. Okay? Since we're talking about data, God bless it, I love data, so whether it's you, Mr. City Manager, Chief, anybody in the audience, how many of the homeless, the unhoused, whatever we're calling them, how many of them from the last point in time count are actually from Santa Ana that have legitimate that ties to the great city of Santa Ana?

So we're still reviewing the data because we worked with CityNet about 30 days ago to do an account here in our city. I think our number is less than 700. 97% appear to have access or be able to get Medi-Cal. And I think 50% are not city of Santa Ana residents. So we're still reviewing the data.

Phil BacerraItem 15

So say it again. So you're saying 50%?

50% do not appear to have a base here in the city of Santa Ana.

Phil BacerraItem 15

The reason I look toward the audience, I see Ken Gaminski here. And I remember when we went to the Board of Supervisors meeting and Ken read through every state in the union to where people were from. And they were from all over the United States. Is that right, Mr. Gaminski?

Yes.

Phil BacerraItem 15

Okay. Okay, so there is quite a few folks that are not from here. I represent the south end of town. I can tell you every day along Bristol when I'm walking my dog, I see new people all the time. And what do they do? They pass out in the landscaped areas. They pass out in the drive-throughs. They do, like right in the drive-throughs. And so what we're talking about here, again, I'll say it again, we're not trying to solve homelessness here tonight. We're trying to look out for our residents, our Santa Ana residents, so that they can use our parks, they can use our bus stops, they can use our public spaces.

Phil BacerraItem 15

That's what we're trying to do. I thought that's what we were elected to do, was to serve our residents. Silly me, that's what I thought we were supposed to do. At least that's what I'm gonna continue to do, is continue to look out for our residents. And as far as some of the proposed changes that I heard from Mayor Pro Tem, I'm not gonna be supporting what I've heard so far. And the reason for that is this. our police or I'm sorry this ordinance is not a hard line it gives our police discretion now for some of the folks up here who don't respect the police and don't think that they could figure

Phil BacerraItem 15

things out I do respect our police in fact there was a young woman that came here tonight and said after all these horrible things happened to her mother the police didn't arrest somebody but yet if you listen to some of my colleagues up here you would think that our police respond to everything thing by arresting. Which is it? Which is it? We've got a person who came in and said after multiple offenses, the police didn't arrest somebody, but yet you would think that by passing this tonight, anytime we see somebody at a bus stop that doesn't look like they should be there, we're going to

Phil BacerraItem 15

arrest them. That's not what's going to happen. Let's give our police just a just a tiny bit of credit, just an itty bitty bit to say that I think they could handle this discretion. I think they could handle this. So what I was hearing from Mayor Pro Tem as far as some of these changes that she was proposing, I won't be supporting them. Look, I think it's unfortunate for folks that would have to sleep in their cars. But the problem is, and why we have laws, it's not for those that are doing good things, those that are striving to do the better things. It's the laws are on the books

Phil BacerraItem 15

because why? Because you have folks that are impacting the quality of life. These laws aren't meant to punish people who are trying to strive to do better. If a cop goes by and sees somebody doing something that looks pretty criminal from their car and they happen to be sleeping in there, this is an opportunity to move that problem out of that neighborhood, to protect our neighborhoods, protect our residents. So I can't support some of this stuff. I think what we need or what's on the agenda before us tonight, I think empowers our law enforcement to look out for those public spaces so that our residents can use them.

Phil BacerraItem 15

Our residents can use them. So I'll be supporting it with the one change that I proposed earlier. Thank you. Thank you. Councilmember Lopez, please.

Jessie LopezItem 15

Thank you.

Jessie LopezItem 15

Okay. So I know that we already do a lot of what is being discussed openly or I think underlined in this ordinance like we strive I mean I don't know how people manage with our offices but we really do strive to keep our parks clean we are very supportive of your bus cleaning initiative right cleaning the bus benches I believe twice twice a day so as a week right that's something that we're already doing, reporting encampments. When I speak with people about what they can

Jessie LopezItem 15

do, what hall line they can call, I always talk to them about the app. I help them download it sometimes. I walk through people about how they can report all of these issues that we're talking about via the app. And I know that we also do site visits in Word 3 and we report things that we see all over the area. I know that we don't tolerate people sleeping in our public parks or restrooms. That's why we hired Lion Security, right, to help the PD know what's going on, you know, in our neighborhoods.

Jessie LopezItem 15

We expanded the number of quality of life teams, correct? Yes. and that's also why I advocated to the county for a second psychiatrist a year ago because we only had one we only had one working part-time now we have two with our teams out there I know it's why we invested more than 20 million on a shelter right that was a huge I think sticker shock for a lot of us as new council members in 2021 I know we have these discussions with Steven CDA about the investments that we were making in our community it's why we brought in

Jessie LopezItem 15

CityNet in 2021 because we understood that when people sign up to be an officer they're not signing up to do this babysitting that we know consumes so much of the time and public resources that as you heard are very limited right we don't have money for certain things but there's money for other things and And so how do you make, how do you decide where you're going to put public resources in a city that already has very, very strained general fund dollars? I know that public intoxication is not something that we look or close our eyes to.

Jessie LopezItem 15

We had a very, very robust discussion here, and we had to do a lot of education with the public that didn't even know that was already outlawed under state law and so we do not preempt the state we must abide by the regulations and their laws as well and so and and when we discussed that right PD said we're already doing this we're already doing this and there was other issues that they had brought up that we that you know kind of just fell to the wayside so I think it's good news for our residents to hear to be reminded of the work that the city is already doing of the work that we've invested in because sometimes when I'm

Jessie LopezItem 15

hearing these conversations it sounds like we're not doing anything and we do our staff a disservice we do ourselves as a council a disservice when I think perhaps the the main focal point is to try and have a gotcha moment with another councilmember because it's very difficult when we're in conversations with business owners, with property owners, with people that are invested in the city, and they're yelling at staff saying, you're not doing anything, when in fact, that couldn't be farther from the truth. We do a lot. We do a lot. Our staff deserve the credit

Jessie LopezItem 15

publicly of being told that they do a lot, more than every other city, right? We didn't back down like Irvine when we announced that we were going to build a shelter. We don't bust other people to the county meetings. We don't bust our own residents to try and put the blame game the way that other cities have done to us. So I think that is really what our residents, when we talk about what they deserve, they deserve unity from this council. They deserve us to be united and acknowledging that some of these things are not being effective, right? And so I listened to the MPTs' points and I agree I was also gonna bring up page four

Jessie LopezItem 15

section A, subsection 3, in terms of defining as living in a car as camping. You can only be in a car in a private lot or a private street after 10 p.m. I think that's very difficult. Whether we like it or not, whether we personally accept the reality of other people, this is the reality of people in our streets they live in cars would you rather have them live in the street or in a park I don't I don't want to see people out in the streets we have people we have fam a family member come here earlier this

Jessie LopezItem 15

year if you all will remember our SAUSD family that came here and said this is the situation and we're now living in a car this is not what we want for ourselves this is not what we want for our children but we can't make ends meet and I don't think that we should criminalize people for for not you know for being in this position that they might not be forever I don't know and so I think that when we're talking about defining parking in the public street after 10 p.m. as camping I'm not going to be supportive of that and you know one of the

Jessie LopezItem 15

things that I spoke about in 2020 that I've spoken about very openly is when I was a student at college working two jobs I couldn't make ends meet and I was depending on living out of my car as well that is the reality of many people many students CSU students UC students when we have parking meetings with staff what do they tell us right I have to drive around I have to circle around and around and around my neighborhood. I have to walk a mile at midnight to be able to come home because there is no parking in public streets right now and there's not enough housing options for people

Jessie LopezItem 15

to live in. Specifically students. The role of me up here as a councilwoman is not to say that's the school district's problem. They will deal with it. They are our constituents. We have a responsibility not just to them but to every family in the city to say we will work together. We will figure this out because we don't want students living in the streets. And our role should be to say, how can we help you? Not, how do we throw you in jail, right? We're talking about discretion here. I don't know who's going to wake up and say, today I want to exercise discretion. And I think that's the very difficult part of this.

Jessie LopezItem 15

Everybody is flawed as human beings, right? And when I speak with officers, this is not the work that they want to be doing. These are not even the situations that they want to be put in, whether they should be taking a family that they knocked on a window, sleeping in a car to jail. I don't believe that that's the work that they want to do. So now moving on to the enforcement section of this ordinance.

Jessie LopezItem 15

Can you let me know how you're defining city officer?

Actually, I believe rereading the ordinance, I think it was meant to say the sighting officer. So that I believe that's a spelling error.

Jessie LopezItem 15

And this is the other problem that I'm having tonight. I don't know who wrote this, but it is very poorly written. And I've had to read this like three times because I just, some of these sections don't even make sense.

Jessie LopezItem 15

Okay, but we can't define a city officer? Is it a code enforcement officer? Is it a police officer? What is, like, what am I, what are you asking me to approve? Is the real problem here? I don't even know what this is. How are our constituents supposed to know what this is? Now, under section 10-403, yes, I would be supporting of striking section D. That, in my eyes, is an overreach. I don't approve of that and again we're talking about oh sorry not strike not strike I'm actually I think there was a comment earlier about you're having

Jessie LopezItem 15

language saying in lieu of being taken to jail may at the election of the sighting officer police officer and with consent of the individual be taken to a facility providing social services related to mental health housing and or substance abuse treatment can you let me know what what facilities in our city or who are we contracting to provide this substance abuse treatment councilmember

that was that would be with any of the current service contracts that we have whether it be with city net social services whether in any nonprofits that

Jessie LopezItem 15

we currently use so and I just want to be clear right now we have available taking people we have bet substance abuse treatment beds available to us

right now at this point I'm not I would have to look into that but I do know that moving forward with prop 36 that's also part of the reason for this ordinance that it'll be able to give us the person the ability to use County in program services and if they complete the program it'll be the version where the charge and arrest will be removed that it ever existed but right now we

Jessie LopezItem 15

don't have any beds right for substance abuse treatment I would have to confirm that I do not know at this point right now again right the issue of asking me to support something that we don't we're not even clear on what housing what housing is going to be made available for people that say okay I don't want to go to treatment I want to go to a unit that's depending on the various shelters

whether it be through the county whether it be through county services because we do any person who requests services from the county is entitled to hotel vouchers is entitled to various services so a lot of the times as a city we have accepted the responsibility to put them in our own shelters but they're also entitled through the county through county services okay so it's not

Jessie LopezItem 15

necessarily a guarantee right because I know a lot of people are stuck in limbo even when they have housing vouchers because sometimes the property owners

don't want to accept the vouchers that does occur sometimes but it is an option

Jessie LopezItem 15

okay so if this section D under enforcement is going to remain then we need to change may from shall or whatever wording needs to be stronger because I agree with the mayor pro tem sentiment that the officer whatever who if it's going to be a code enforcement officer a PD officer if we're gonna contract the workout has to offer these services they they they must offer to to the MPT's comments.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Can I come back to you? You're at seven minutes now. Are you almost done? No. You're not done? No. Okay. Let me come back to you later. So I have you done. And I just want you to just change, put shall be taken to a facility. Just clear on your last comment.

Jessie LopezItem 15

Yeah, I think it should be shall required for officers to offer the services.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Okay, great. I just want to make sure. All right. Did you want to speak, Constance?

David PenalozaItem 15

Yeah, I was just going to suggest, Mayor, because we are rewriting this entire ordinance on the dais, I was going to suggest that we continue the item for the next council meeting because there are other business items on the agenda and it's getting late. And so that we can get time for staff to put this language and give us another redline version of what our colleagues are suggesting. Some of them are, I heard some of Councilmember Lopez's suggestions, and I kind of agree with one or two of them. But so that would be my motion to continue this item for the next council meeting.

Phil BacerraItem 15

I'll second it.

Jessie LopezItem 15

I would like to give my comments today so that our staff here is.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Yeah, I'm going to go back to Mayor Pro Temer and then I'll go back to you. Go ahead.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

Thank you, Mayor. So as to the enforcement on page 12 of 17, Section 10-852D, I do obviously I suggested the shall offer resources right but I want to make sure if they're Santa Ana residents so shall offer resources of their Santa Ana residents because when you run into someone right I imagine you would get their ID figure out who they are where they're from frankly if they're not from Santa Ana we're not going to offer them resources they shouldn't get our beds that's unfortunately the truth because we have to provide them to in my opinion we should provide them to our residents so that would be the edit there.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

All right.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

Keep going.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

On Section 33-113, that's page 15 of 17.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

Subsections B and C. I do understand where this is coming from as to, you know, making sure that people are not sleeping on the bus benches. Although I do think that sitting is, it just seems kind of, again, overbroad. They're bus benches. If people are sitting, they're not doing anything illegal. In my opinion, I don't see why that would be a problem. It's a bench. It's meant for sitting. Now, of course, if someone is using drugs, if someone is, you know, camping, there are other provisions for camping whether or not it's on a bus bench, right, in our ordinance. I see the city attorney's nodding her head.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

So I'd just like to strike sitting from subsection B. And again, I would just strike subsection Section C, any person to utilize a bus bench prior to one hour before bus services commences and immediately following in the ending of bus services. Look if you're walking, if you're walking, you need to sit down, sit down. I don't think that that should be an issue. Again, that would be overbroad. And if, you know, subsection D does say it's unlawful for anyone to sleep or lay on any bus bench, I think that encompasses much of the activity that we're talking about and anyone who is using drugs.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

The last comment I'll make tonight is, you know, it is really important to me. I understand my colleagues, and I agree with them. I do think that, again, we should enforce a lot of these unlawful activities. We should incorporate them. And I do agree that our officers have the ability to distinguish between someone who is merely, you know, taking a nap for an hour because they need that in order to refresh themselves before they drive home, compared to someone who may be doing drugs in their car. But doing drugs in your car is already a violation, and we should enforce that.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

But to me, it is very difficult to say that someone who's sleeping in their car trying to make ends meet is going to be cited. We have working people who sleep in their cars.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

Many, well, Council Member Lopez and I talked about how we have slept in our cars. So, to me, people shouldn't be punished when often that is temporary or they're looking for help. Now, if you see someone sleeping in their car, offer them services, but I don't think that a citation is the way to go. And I also want to say that I work with police officers from many different departments, different cities. I might be the only person on this dais, please correct me if I'm wrong, who's actually prosecuted misdemeanor violations of code for loitering, for public intoxication and put people in jail.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

So I want to say that I support law enforcement. I think you guys do a great job. But these ordinances aren't meant for the perfect officer. It's not meant for the perfect scenario. It's to make sure that while we authorize our officers to go out and enforce the law, we also have guardrails to make sure that we aren't giving anyone so much discretion that they're able to capture some other folks who might just be down on their luck sometimes and so with that I'd like to see some of those changes I'm sure you know maybe we can get a draft sent around to the council members before

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

hand so we might be able to you know provide feedback or just to make sure that it captures everything that we mentioned and I look forward to it coming back I look forward to coming back I look forward to us implementing something like this and I look forward to making sure that folks who are breaking the law in Santa Ana are being held accountable but that we continue to provide the services that we have been providing that we help the families who need help who've asked for help and who have accepted our help thank you so the

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

only comment I make about the part the bus benches is that we've been doing a great job thank you mr. city manager and the city staff for cleaning them and sanitizing them and deodorizing them and why are you spending ten thousand dollars a month doing that we as a city are spending ten thousand dollars a month doing that why because the homeless are sleeping on our bus benches using them as their home again whatever they do on there that people who are going to work cannot sit on those bus benches and i support cleaning our bus benches i think it's very important um i don't support again i

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

go back to the very simple of our police officers know what to do i'm going to give them that then like firemen they know what to do first responders are trained a certain way i don't see any policeman that's going to drive by a bus station say oh that guy's been sitting there 20 minutes let me go pull him over however if a guy's knotted out on the bus because he's knotted out on dope yeah the officer may stop because the senora that's standing off to the bus stop because i've seen it she's not going to sit on the same bench as that person because he's high and she's scared.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

So a couple of weeks ago, I called the watch commander because I was out at night and a woman and there was a guy on the bus stop and he wasn't knotted out, but he looked like he was under the influence. So I called and officers responded and he did have fentanyl on him and he was arrested and he was under the influence. So when he was put in the police car, what happened? three ladies came and sat on that bus. They were getting the bus to go home. They were not sitting on the bus while he was there because they were in fear of their life. They're uncomfortable. So that's why I think it's very important

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

when we just make kind of statements like, oh well bus benches, you know, people sit there. Our officers are not, they don't have the time to stop it just because they see somebody sitting on our bus bench. But if they see somebody who they, because most of our officers know who's homeless in our city for the most part. They see the guy that they see all the time on First Street, now he's been on that bus bench for three hours, yeah, they may stop. What are you doing? What are you doing? And if I search you, do you have drugs? Are you on parole? Are you probation? You know, on probation? Who knows?

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

But again, my priority is the constituents that live here in Santa Ana, and the senoras, the grandmas, the moms, the dads who are taking the bus to and from home, to and from work. So, I mean, we can nitpick every single thing in here. And this item is not to turn council members against each other. This item is to address the needs of our community and our constituents, the constituents that we all serve, not the constituents out of Santa Ana. I don't want to sue anybody. I don't want to waste general fund money on suing people because we need all that money. And we have done so much for the homeless problem in our city.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

We've gone above and beyond. And a couple times people have mentioned transitional age youth. I know that there's an apartment opening up in Santa Anita on Biuli, and when it's ready, we will be placing transitional age youth in that apartment. Correct? We are now working with Encompass, because Encompass is able to house people and house families. We'll be working with them. Correct? And so, and as far as the population at the shelter, it fluctuates up and down. And if Mr. Garcia can get all of our families out, we'd have 21 more spots available. And he's working on it. So it fluctuates. So please look at the data.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Please look at it. Because our police and our city net and all of our city staff, they do a phenomenal job making contact, getting them housing, getting them off the street, getting them into a program. Now they're working with social services in the county, thanks to the city manager and the staff that are doing that. but this is not an attack on homeless people because they're homeless. This is what our constituents want. They want this. They want to be safe. They want a good quality of life in Santa Ana. Thank you. Council Member Lopez, you're going to finish?

Jessie LopezItem 15

Yes. The other section of the ordinance that I was reading that stuck out to me was section 10-550. No person shall own, keep, or harbor more than three animals in the Civic Center except for service dogs. as defined by the law, but not all service dogs, not all service animals are dogs. So I think that needs to be clarified in the ordinance that you're presenting to us. And I just, I mean, out of curiosity, what is gonna happen if you see someone in the Civic Center area with four dogs?

I think it depends on the totality of circumstances. like I mentioned trying to balance not just public safety but the public health and obviously there's some health concerns if there are too many animals in the Civic Center area whether we call animal control to assist from that aspect or whether we see if we can find other services for the individual but we do have to take into consideration not just from a public safety but also from a public health to the area for our businesses and our public spaces okay got it and the other

Jessie LopezItem 15

section was um uh section 10-552 i had questions about the permit but i am happy to email you that just for the sake of time um but i would like for whatever does come back to address if there are for example five people hanging out at the japanese garden does that constituent a crime does that by definition you know make them eligible to be to be stopped and questioned right because that's the way that I'm interpreting the language here and as you can imagine we're trying to activate dead spaces in the city I don't

Jessie LopezItem 15

think that's necessarily what we should be doing in this area

Jessie LopezItem 15

Additionally, I think this was brought earlier about nobody having a movable chair. That's again, if people, if we're asking people to use the parks, to use public spaces, we're saying you can bring your own chairs. that doesn't necessarily come across as as people wanting perhaps to use the park again we talked about the the treatment language in this ordinance and

Jessie LopezItem 15

in terms of section 33-113 you know about two years ago there was a OCTA strike and people that depend on public transportation were not aware about the strike and so they were at the bus benches waiting for the bus for hours and it was raining and so you're saying the way that this is written is that had this ordinance been in place those people that had no idea about a strike that were waiting for the bus could have been stopped by PD and potentially been

Jessie LopezItem 15

cited arrested and so I would hope that when you bring this back you you're a little bit more thoughtful about how this is going to be presented to the council because as you can imagine I'm not going to be supportive of this and I think subsection C it should be unlawful for any person to utilize a bus bench prior to one hour before bus service is a very difficult ask many people perhaps get there earlier than they need to because they're walking and so I think again when if you are if you want the council to support the ordinance what is

Jessie LopezItem 15

the message that our residents going to get when we're saying you can't be at the bus stop before the bus comes or an hour before the route is supposed to happen I think that's just again overreach in my opinion sending in the median right we already have all those signs up so I'm not really sure if that's intended to be anti-street vendor language that you have in this ordinance and so so those are some of the comments that I have wrote down to bring up to staff and you know ultimately we have 87 people who are

Jessie LopezItem 15

unhoused in Orange County right now that are stuck waiting for a housing opportunity that don't want be in that situation but they're stuck waiting for a housing opportunity 328 of them are veterans in our streets there are thousands of people with a job i think the ocr just released an article about two months ago talk profiling the people that are working full time that cannot afford their own home and so i hope that when we're writing these ordinances that you're asking me to read and review and speak publicly about that we're being a little bit more diligent about what

Jessie LopezItem 15

is being presented and that you take the experiences of everyday people in our city into consideration

Phil BacerraItem 15

thank you madam mayor if i just may ask before we or i guess for staff when you bring it back to us can you present it as a list of what each council member requesting so that all of us can see like what council member lopez asked for what mayor pro tem asked for what i asked for just so we could see it because what you present to us tonight other than a couple of grammatical errors should come back to us because that's what you guys were recommending to us. And then all of our different proposed edits, I think, should be shown so that we can see what we select from.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 15

Can I take a shot at that, too, just because I want to answer? That is a concern I have. I hear you loud and clear. We've been taking diligent notes, and we will address that. But I believe that based on what feedback we've gotten, we will work as professional staff to rework this ordinance and bring it back. I wouldn't intend to make every specific change that was requested because I don't have a vote to do that. But I can hear, I've heard the feedback. So I'm saying that we will take that into consideration. But I do believe that, you know, it is our job as professional staff to listen to you all and to incorporate your thoughts.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 15

But we will still come back and make a recommendation. I think we need to leave, let our professional staff listen to you and make that recommendation. So I mean, I'm not just, I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm not just doing clerical work here. What I'm doing is I'm listening and doing analysis. And I think some of these comments are excellent comments. Just so the council knows, this ordinance came from the city of Anaheim's ordinance. So that's what we were looking at. The city of Anaheim had adopted the ordinance. We thought it might be close to what might work here, since sometimes we do look at that.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 15

So I think your comments about, some of your comments about taking a look at this and making, really tailoring it more to the city, heard that loud and clear. We'll work with staff, and we'll bring back our recommendations.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

But I-Thank you, Madam City Attorney. And the other thing I want to be clear is that if I read the language correctly, when this is voted on, and if it passes, it doesn't go into effect until 30 days after, correct?

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 15

30 days after the second reading. After the second reading, right. Yeah, so we're still looking until...

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

So we're not like, if it gets approved the next day, it's going to go into effect. It's 30 days after the second reading. So, okay, so we're good. Everybody's good. And if you have any other comments or suggestions, please reach out to city staff so that they can add those changes. And we're going to bring it back to the next meeting, Mr. City Manager.

Given the changes and the nuance of the comments being made, I would ask for at least 30 days.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

So that will take us into?

Right.

David PenalozaItem 15

Second meeting in December?

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

December 17th?

Yes.

David PenalozaItem 15

I'll accept that amendment by the city manager. I will as well.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

I will.

Again, it's to follow up with what the city attorney said, right? we looked at a sample that just got approved city of Anaheim right and with comparable demographics to a certain extent right so part of the comments being made right it's it's different between what this type of pragmatic ordinance does right and then the nuance of it seems to get be getting lost right so let's just say we appreciate the comments and I understand

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

and mr. City manager when you meet with the council could you please share you the chief that chief you are meeting with the county you are meeting with the sheriff i know you just put a piece of candy in your mouth i apologize you are meeting with the sheriff you

are meeting with all the police chiefs correct that is correct mayor i am part of an ad hoc committee where i am meeting with uh including the sheriff the courts to build a collaborative court to have a model and the judges be able to address the most uh repeat offenders so people are not dropped off in our city or released in our city. So I am having those conversations with our neighboring agencies to include the sheriff and the DA. Thank you. I wanted people

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

to know that. So we keep hearing sue the sheriff, but yet you're at the table with him. And then today it was shared with the public that the sheriff received $420 million for the improvements at the farm for music, what we call the farm, it's music, for rehab and mental health services. they'll have 897, 96 inmates there for services. So they're doing their part as well. So thank you. All right. December 17th it is. We're going to take a 10-minute break.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

We do have a motion on the floor, Mayor. Oh, I'm sorry. A motion by Council Member Penaloza, seconded by Council Member Becerra, to continue item number 32 to the December 17th City Council meeting. Let's vote, please.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

VOTE IS 6 AYES, 1 NAY, NAY BY COUNCILMEMBER VASQUEZ. MOTION CARRIES. ITEM IS CONTINUED.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

THANK YOU. WE'LL BE BACK IN 10 MINUTES.

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Jennifer L. HallItem 15

All right, you're good.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Item number 33 was continued from the special meeting of October 28, 2024, as related to the investigation regarding Councilman Jonathan Hernandez. Are there any questions or comments by the Council at this time?

Jessie LopezItem 15

Hearing none, we can just move on.

Jessie LopezItem 15

Receive and file. I make a motion to resume and file and move on.

David PenalozaItem 15

Yeah, I'll second. I mean, we spoke in length about this at the last meeting. I don't think what more there is to say. I would just hope that my colleague, the subject of the investigation, as well as all of us up here, continue to try to do better moving forward. It's just hearing multiple times from staff, you know, not okay, but I hope that we take this as a learning experience. At the end of the day, you know, it is what it is. And I believe Councilmember Hernandez apologized. So, I mean, what more can you do, right? So I will agree to the motion to receive and file.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

May I approach him?

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

Thank you, Mayor. Thank you to my colleagues for continuing this item so that I could be prepared to speak on it tonight and so that members of the public can, more members of the public can hear the discussion on this item. So I read the full investigative report. I think there were some pretty disturbing allegations as well as some findings that were upheld and others that were not.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

You know, I take this position very seriously. I tell everyone the first time I met staff, the first thing I said is I'm staff two. I'm staff two in other cities. So I know what it's like. And I know what it's like when a council member who is in a position of authority asks you to do something, right? You're put in between a rock and a hard place because you want to make sure that the policy maker is happy that you carry out the policy directive but also that you comply with the hierarchy that is presented to us in our charter as a city manager form of government a strong city

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

manager form of government and so i want to reiterate the fact well several facts but the first thing is that the allegation that i found most disturbing which is the improper solicitation and acceptance of money that the city did not receive was not sustained. I want to make sure that everybody heard that. That allegation was not sustained. And so I hear, you know, you hear rumors, you hear people, you know, having conversations about that. I think it's highly problematic for anyone to continue to spread those rumors when, again, it was not sustained.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

However, there were sustained findings regarding improper, improper conduct relating to the bureaucracy, the hierarchy and administration of events. Now I know Councilmember Hernandez has been a zealous advocate for issues that I think are important to all of our council, the entire council. and one of them is Chicano heritage, which is something that I thoroughly enjoyed and I love learning about. But I also think that, you know, I appreciate the apology relating to some of the

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

conduct, but I do agree that when we fail to uphold our code of ethics, our conduct, we should be responsible for those actions. And so I think that the punishment should fit the misconduct. And so in this case, I would request, or I would bring it up to my colleagues, that one, Council Member Hernandez, because you have shown that, you know, first, that the conduct had did not continue, but secondly, that you had apologized for it, is one that we do do

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

some training relating to what is proper relating to working with staff, getting involved with events and things like that I think that's fair because I think we also have to show staff that we are willing to learn and improve whenever that's possible and the second thing is I think that it's also important and it is kind of hard for me to say but I also would like that in the event that the results of the election are certified and that you are reelected that for one year

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

you're not eligible for mayor pro tem because i think that it's important that whoever holds the position of mayor pro tem upholds the highest values ethics and follows the protocols of the city i think that we have to hold each other responsible for sustained findings and that this will show anyone including myself and future council members that we don't tolerate anything like that. So that would be my request. I do think that any conversation regarding the city attorney

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

doing an investigation for misdemeanor violation is overblown and I believe that it fails to take into account that this report finds that the sustained findings are at the preponderance of evidence level and not beyond a reasonable doubt. And the investigative report clearly shows that the allegations at least one of the primary complainant was not particularly credible and I don't think that that is something that we should sink more resources in to potentially not succeed at a jury trial so that would be my motion and I conclude my comments thank you if that's a motion mayor

David PenalozaItem 15

pro temp fan I'll second it as well but I also with I guess the same receiving file because at the end of the day this is getting received and filed along with uh your your comments about uh the one year uh if and when the the election results are certified the mayor pro

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

tem question yes so he would be eligible for the december 2025 uh reorganization if he is elected

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

as a council member thank you i'm supportive of that mayor pro tem fan that's an ambassador Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Phil BacerraItem 15

You know, Mayor Pro Tem says that she also served as an employee for a city. I have as well in my past. And I can't imagine what it would have been like to have an elected official come down and directly tell me what to do or question my competency or accuse me of not being sensitive to one culture or another. I don't think that's right. I don't think that any of our employees should have to endure that. when there was an allegation against the mayor. Oh my God. Oh my goodness. We're gonna throw her out. We're gonna throw her out right then and there. Oh, but wait, obviously charges weren't substantiated.

Phil BacerraItem 15

So we just, you know, move along. And then now here, this happens to be around an election. So I think it's fair for anybody to say, oh, this is all just political gamesmanship. But I take it more personally because I have been a city employee. And so when I hear that council members, One, can't follow the very basics of our city charter, are very basic. Just, we have three employees, manager, clerk, and attorney. Go through the city manager if you want something done through Parks and Rec. Go through the city manager if you want something done in planning and building. But that's not what happened here.

Phil BacerraItem 15

So I appreciate my colleagues' desire to want to move forward. But at the same time, I also believe that there should be some accountability. Do I support asking our city attorney to pursue a misdemeanor charge? No, I don't think it rose to that level. But one thing I would ask our city manager to do, and maybe this is something that's a memo that comes back to us, but I want to know how we're going to ensure, especially for our parks and rec staff, that they're not going to be harassed by any of us, by any of the council members. Like, what do we have to do? And I'm looking to you city manager, because they look to you.

Phil BacerraItem 15

You're the buffer between them and us. And so we need to make sure that there are protections. We need to make sure that your executive management team and the employees under them feel comfortable and feel confident that going to you will ensure that they can continue to do the professional work that we all rely on them to do. So I would support the motion that was brought forth by Mayor Pro Tem. But what I would ask to add would be a formal censure. And in addition to not being able to serve as mayor pro tem for one year, should the results be certified and he's reelected, but also removal

Phil BacerraItem 15

from boards, commissions or committees that he currently serves on, because that's what's prescribed in our city's code of ethics. So that would be my ask of an amendment.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

No, I'm okay with the provisions that I have. And I think that we have one more meeting before the reorganization and we can consider that at that time

Jessie LopezItem 15

You know so so I I saw your comment councilmember Hernandez about accepting NPT's

Jessie LopezItem 15

Recommendation I'm still supportive of the receiving file I think and this is why we talk about consistency at least why I talk about consistency so much from from the dais because when we're talking about being disrespectful to our staff I know for a fact people sitting up here that have cussed at our staff via emails I know for a fact that many of us direct staff right even when we're sitting up here saying we shouldn't be directing stuff we have all done it to one degree or the other and so there are people up here who are on video being disrespectful to our staff.

Jessie LopezItem 15

And so, again, this is why I think being consistent in our processes is so important and not picking and choosing when we want to punish someone publicly. And so I will not be supporting the sub motion. I'm happy to proceed with the motion that I've made. But there is a sub motion, so let's just call for the vote.

Jessie LopezItem 15

Any other comments? Seeing none, Madam Senate Clerk.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

SUB MOTION BY MAYOR PRO TEM FAN, SECONDED BY COUNCILMEMBER PENALOSA, TO RECEIVE AND FILE THE REPORT AND TO REQUIRE TRAINING ON WORKING WITH STAFF AND TO HAVE COUNCILMEMBER HERNANDEZ NOT ELIGIBLE TO SERVE AS MAYOR PRO TEM FOR ONE YEAR. PREPARED A VOTE PLEASE.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Oh, that's the old one. We can close that out and I'll start over.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Let's prepare to vote again. SHE STARTED OVER, PLEASE.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

COUNCIL MEMBER HERNANDEZ.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

VOTE IS FOUR AYES, TWO NAYS AND ONE ABSTENTION. Nays by Councilmember Lopez and Councilmember Vasquez. Abstention by Councilmember Hernandez. Motion carries.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Okay. Let's go on. We're going to now end the business calendar and go to the public hearing. Before hearing, public hearing item number 34, Madam City Clerk, please provide instructions to the public who would like to make a comment on this public hearing item only.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Thank you. Members of the public joining us by way of Zoom or conference call, who would like to make a comment for public hearing item number 34 only please dial star 9 from your phone or select raise hand from zoom now speakers will be announced once we get to the public hearing

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

you want me to go on are you gonna come it's for you mayor item number 34 is a public hearing for an appeal of the decision of the Planning Commission to to approve a conditional use permit located at 2221 North Heliotrope Drive mr. City manager may we please have a staff presentation yes executive director

menti a plan and building work issue the I'm in the presentation thank you mr. city manager mayor member of the council as you mentioned the item tonight is in pure application of the planning commission decision the recommendation The application tonight by staff is for you to adopt a resolution denying the appeal application and upholding the Planning Commission approval of the resolution approving the CUP. The subject property is located at 2221 North Heliotrope. The property is designated for single-family residents and low density residential under the general plan.

Surrounding land uses are similar single-family uses. The lot size is just a tad under one acre, and the site is currently developed with 5,700-square-foot single-family residence. The property is known as the Maharaja House, which is a designated landmark as part of our historic resources listing. Other structures on the properties include a poo house as well as a separate accessory structure located at the northeast corner of the property.

the planning commission held two public hearing regarding the conditional use permit first on March 28th again on March on April 25th of 2022 the Commission on April 25th unanimously voted to continue the item indefinitely the reason for the continuous was to provide staff the time to work with the applicant evaluating option on reducing the visual impact considering the location scale in size and massing as well as screening or combination thereof to address community concerns that were raised at the meeting on August 26 2024 its

continuing public hearing was held on the project matter after public testimony and deliberation the planning commission voted unanimously to adapt a resolution approving the CUP 2022-06. On September 5th of this year, an appeal application was submitted appealing the Planning Commission's approval of the CUP.

On here is a copy of the site plan showing you on the left-hand side the original location of what was proposed for the Moon Pavilion, the subject accessory structure. On the right-hand side is the proposed relocation of this structure to the northwest corner of the property.

In response to the Commission's feedback, the applicant updated the application with a new site plan. to accurately depict existing and proposed condition they relocated the proposed pavilion away from the south end of the property and also provided photo simulation to help demonstrate the presence and the massing of the property for the Commission and the public hearing process guided by the Commission's feedback as well as their comment the applicant relocated the pavilion to be approximately 15 feet from the rear of the property and 12 feet away from the side of the property which is the north side of along Santa Clara it is also

located behind existing six foot high stucco wall and behind existing actually behind existing mature landscaping ranging anywhere between 12 to 20 feet in height the structure is freestanding is approximately two and five square feet in size with a total of height of 23 feet 4 inches it is also located approximately 30 feet from the existing residence behind the residence and approximately 16 feet from another freestanding two-story accessory structure that is currently under review as an ADU for the property the structure was previously built in Vietnam and as a traditional Vietnamese

design was fabricated by a Vietnamese artisan overseas the structure shares very similar design material and cultural characteristics as at the existing garden house again located at the northeast corner of the site it includes two electrical outlets and limited accent lighting includes two to four light fixtures within the structure and three to six landscape up lighting at the base no noise sources or posts on the structure in the FPO application the applicant is requesting for three things three three issues the City Council to

overturn the Planning Commission decision approving the conditional use permit required that all new or outstanding city building permit deficiency be resolved before further consideration of the CUP and that the item be referred back to the HRC for review for historic resources concerns

In support of overturning the Commission's decision, the applicant raised a number of issues that have been fully analyzed and responded to in Exhibit 6 to your staff report. As the analysis documented, the appellant did not provide supporting information substantiating the issue statements and any evidence that the proposed project would adversely impact the community pursuant to the five mandatory findings made by the Planning Commission pursuant to section 41638 of the SAMC. Furthermore, the installation of the proposed structure would not result in a change to the existing land

use and the property would remain as a single-family residence. The proposed structure is located away from adjacent properties, screened by existing mature landscape features minimizing concerns to adjacent property and visibility to the structure from public view the Commission found that the project is consistent with the goals and policy of the general plan land use and historic preservation elements to address the outstanding building permit deficiency the owner has submitted a separate permit application currently undergoing plan

check I'm sorry one slide too quick to address the outstanding building permit deficiency the owner has submitted a separate permit application currently undergoing plan check to review the permit their application to a pool house and to convert this accessory structure into an ADU to meet local and state regulations while these are separate and unique actions the Commission did however approved the conditional use permit with a contingent that the property owner obtained the necessary approval for the ADU further in their approval the Commission included conditions addressing the various concerns raised

by the community including prohibiting the use of the structure and the site for any commercial purpose including but not limited to tour museum uses festival etc the site is to remain and operate as a single-family residential site and the conditional use permit may be subject to verification as outlined in section 41.651 of the SAMC if violations were to occur. The Commission also required that all trees and existing landscaping to be protected in place and be maintained.

Lastly, the Appellant requests for the project to be referred to the Historic Resources Commission for their review. While the project was under the purview of the Planning Commission, as still by the SAAMC, it is important to note that this issue was raised and discussed by the Planning Commission during the public hearing process. The Commission found no compelling reasons or a legal nexus under the SAAMC for such a referral. The project would not result in any physical alteration to the Maharaja House, and it would not impact to any existing public viewshed along Santa Clara or Heliotro.

The installation of the proposed accessory structure at the proposed location, its condition, will not result in a change to the neighborhood character or identity. The Maharaja House will continue to retain all of its character defining features and changes will be confined to the backyard and would not affect the historical integrity of the primary structure and as well as the Floral Park Historic District.

before I share the conclusion I want to note that we did receive a couple comments a number of comments prior to the meeting tonight we want to acknowledge the receive those comment and we provide a response to each one of those comments and those the response has been posted to the website in closing the staff is recommending that the City Council adapt a resolution denying the appeal application and determine that pursuant to the California Environmental Quality Act and the CEQA guidelines, the project is exempted from further review pursuant to Section 15303

and uphold the Planning Commission's approval of the Conditional Use Permit. Thank you.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Thank you very much. I appreciate the presentation.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Council members, you'd like to make comments, please raise your microphone.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Okay. Do any members of the council need to disclose any ex parte communications or any other questions, comments by the council?

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Mayor Pro Tem?

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

Yeah. Just as a general matter, I've had correspondences with the owners of the property throughout the last four years. I just wanted to put that on the record so I am familiar with the property owner. Thank you.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

I'd also like to put on the record that about, I don't know, seven, six, eight months ago, I don't know how long I was there and I visited the property for the first time. I took a tour, and I mean tour of just the backyard. No buses, no anything. Just went in and saw the backyard.

Jessie LopezItem 15

Any other? Yes. Yes. So I think similar to MPT, they've written to my office. And I believe if I'm not mistaken, one of those correspondents was not returned. but there's I think that's pretty much it yes nobody else I know in the public

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

hearing from members of the public that would like to provide their comments in person and virtually madam city clerk do we have any speakers yes mayor and

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

council and noting for the record for e-comments we did receive 13 e-comments related to public hearing item 34 prior to 2 p.m. today those were distributed to the City Council and made available online. We do have several speaker cards here. We'll be starting with the applicant followed by the appellant and then any additional in-person or Zoom speakers.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Madam City Clerk, two minutes please.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Yes, so the applicant and the appellant per our rules and procedures have 10 minutes and then the other speakers will have two minutes each. So if we could have Quinn Q, the applicant, please come to the podium.

Dear Council members and city staff, I would like first to recognize the tremendous work by the Planning Commission along the years that it took to this project. They have visited us many times and worked with us to address some of the concerns that pertain to the property. I would like to, I see a number of my neighbors here, and I would like to reemphasize that we moved to the floral park almost 40 years ago. And upon moving there, we love and respect the character of this very unique environment.

First, I would like to set up and make sure and clear to my neighbors that we do not intend to make it into a museum. A museum is a very, very required and has high requirements and we're unable to do that, nor do we want to do that. We both of us are in our 70s and our 80s and we have been able to gather a collection of our cultural items of Vietnam. Some of them are very related to people that my father worked with who are the ruling family, the last emperors of Vietnam. And

so some of those have very personal relationship with us and value for us. So we, along the years, along the last 30 years, we have given loan of our collection which is museum grade to many museums in the world the LA County Museum the Bowers twice the European museums German Museum and have and the objects have been on exhibit at many of the local colleges Orange Coast College Irvine Valley College Camino area college college all over Southern

California. We do not need nor do we want to make it a museum. There's no need for that. So that is, I want to reassure everyone about it. We do have at one point, some of the neighbors have mentioned a website which is under viatheritage.org and this is a website which was done by one of the volunteers some years ago, but which is not active, has never been active. It was like a holder place for the nonprofit. And the nonprofit goal is to communicate and

share the knowledge about the Vietnam culture to the community here. So we do not need to exhibited nor so since we are both elderly we want to live the golden year of our life enjoying what we have and especially the very special backyard everything that we are bringing to the yard of the Maharaja Museum in its own right has a very unique value and is objects and structures which are very

special and will only enhance the unique character of Floral Park and the historical value of the whole neighborhood. I don't believe that I would ever want to be bringing something which is disruptive to a neighborhood that I love and value. My neighbor who appealed brought up the case of two buses which brought Westminster High School students and they are in the dual language program which is Vietnamese English they came twice every year they come once and

it was two buses and the visit was during the daytime with the staff from the teachers and it lasted two hours and that was all it caused absolutely no traffic jam nor any problem. We do have the usual personal events at our yard and in our home, not any more than people would have in the neighborhood regarding birthdays and other personal parties. Usually the parties in our backyard cannot last until the night because there's no

lighting in the backyard and so it's not so and it usually involves our friends or the volunteers of our nonprofit which does work in Vietnam which is Project Vietnam Foundation and has no no relevance with the cultural the cultural items that we are offering they're just enjoying our backyard so then here in I I have talked to some of my neighbors as well. Most importantly, I have the support of my neighbor immediately adjoining our home, our neighbor in the back,

and then also our neighbor across the street who is exposed and will have the prime view of that gazebo because it's right there. But it hasn't bothered them, and they have signed in support. We have 32 signatures of homeowners in that area who state that they feel that this would be an enhancement of the culture of the area and the diversity of Santa Ana and Orange County.

So I have and here to consolidate and also I have my son-in-law who is in the back. And then Brian, please stand up because my daughter is a plastic surgeon who lives in the floral park as well. And she is at walking distance from where I live. And my children support what I do, and my children are ready to pitch in and support the house after we pass, which always will happen. So I don't think we can avoid that. But then, so then, they will continue the mission.

And we will continue to be giving loans to the different museums and, of course, be giving first priority to the local museums. So I hope that, you know, our past history of being very community oriented, the history of our family, which is also public services, and I think that the long history of both of us serving as physicians to the Orange County patients, and also the fact that we are using our own private savings

along 45 years of practicing medicine in order to support that. We'll be supporting what our statement is. And I'm ready to be working with the neighbors if they have something that they disagree on. But it's not going to happen. We're going to have the usual private parties and that's it. And the buses that one of my neighbor, the one who is the appellant, submitted and circulated in the neighborhood a flyer showing two buses,

which are the two buses which came in March. I remember the dates because only once a year they come. And then it was that one visit by the school students. And then also I have to say, since our area is so special, every year there's a home tour of the floral park, which is very well attended. So then we've been part of, our house has been part of that home tour twice already. And once we get this constructed, we will be happy to open our yard and contribute to the neighborhood enjoyment as well, as well as fundraising.

raising. So while I talked to quite a few of my neighbors, some of them have expressed that it doesn't bother them to have that structure and that we'd be happy to support it. However, when they said that, oh, the person who opposed it is the treasurer of the homeowner association and one of them said, no, I don't want to get involved. Or they received the flyer and And they said no, although initially they are in support. But this is for you, and I think that the recommendation of staff, I fully agree with that. They have done excellent work. I thank you for it, the Planning Commission.

You have an excellent Planning Commission. Thank you.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Next, we'll hear from the appellant, Peter Christofferson.

Greetings, Mayor and members of the City Council. I'm Peter Christofferson. I live on North Heliotrope Drive in Floral Park near the subject property. And I want to be very clear. While I'm an officer of the Floral Park Neighborhood Association or FP&A, I am speaking solely as a neighbor and not as a representative of the FP&A board. Through its standing rules, FP&A will not get involved with neighbor-to-neighbor disputes, excuse me, and will not get involved with neighbor-to-city or outside vendor complaints. Therefore, FP&A is not able to recommend, support, comment, nor approve the activities at the Maharaja House.

I want to be understood that homeowners have been misstated, or I want to understand, I want to be understood that the homeowners have misstated numerous times that FP&A approves of their project and it does not.

Our group of concerned Santa Ana neighbors who I filed appeal on behalf of have the following concerns. The Maharaja House owners via correspondence to the city, March 13, 2023, emailed to Jesse Lopez, Taipan and others, as well as publicly voiced at events, have clearly indicated their plan to turn the property into a cultural center heritage site. The approval by the Planning Commission of the Overhide Pavilion in question does not support the best interests of Santa Ana residents as it is clearly one step forward towards promoting cultural center heritage sites and residential neighborhoods.

Further a website for the established Vietnam Heritage Foundation states, we host cultural exhibitions, community cultural events, and youth-oriented educational activities.

Conversely, Vince Fragoso, a former Santa Ana Planning Department employee or manager, who we understand is managing the QIES CUP process, stated in an email dated April 13, 2024 to Pedro Gomez. Further, in speaking with the owner, he has stated that he has no intention of converting any or all of the site into a museum or similar use. A cultural heritage center site in our residential neighborhood presents not only accessibility and parking issues but also creates a safety concern by bringing in excess traffic on a street that is likely one of the more small children at play streets in the Floral Park

neighborhood. These are just some of the many reasons our group of concerned Santa Ana neighbors respectfully request approval of CUP 2202-06 to build yet another structure on this property be rescinded. We recommend the city to sort out the numerous and conflicting facts submitted and take the position that a cultural center heritage site does not belong in any Santa Ana residential neighborhood, period. I meant to send you some pictures, but obviously my neighbor has indicated about the buses and happy to pass it around, but it's been more than buses and it's quite a bit times during the year.

And I really question, in fact, the fact that they're groups of friends. They don't appear to be because there's sound equipment, cameras, banquets, everything going on. It's a little bit more than that. And when you put this structure, which initially was facing me on heliotrope, now in the corner, I think it's going to stick up a little higher than their pictures have shown. But that's essentially it. I think there's two sides to every story. And what we're being told many times turns out to be one thing, and what happens in being told to the city is something else.

and it's very discouraging. Thank you very much.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

We'll now move on with the rest of the comment cards. Time limit for these speakers will be two minutes. I'll call three names at a time. If you could please line up behind the podium to make your comments. Brian Zada, Denise Silva, Mike Silva.

I Mean council members and mayor wherever she went

Just wanted to kind of introduce myself. My name is Brian Zada. I am the son-in-law of of Doctors Quynh Q and Chan Q. I have known them for six years of my life. I've gotten to know the Vietnamese culture. I got to know so much about what they've done. So they have a, Project Vietnam has been around for, excuse me, 28 years. And they've done so much good. I've been on three missions with them. They are the most giving people, the most amazing people. All they're trying to do is allow my two children, who are Vietnamese Americans, have a backyard that really looks incredible and looks just like

parts of Vietnam. They brought this structure back from Vietnam to be there. I just think it's not going to affect the neighborhood as much as he had said. Their house is absolutely gorgeous, the backyard is gorgeous, everything about it is amazing, and I think that gets kind of lost in translation when you show a picture like you just showed, which is absolutely ridiculous because because it's not gonna look like that obviously. I had another note, sorry, give me one sec.

I know frequency of events was kind of a thing. The events are just like any other events that are thrown other places. There may be sound equipment and stuff like that, but that happens at other parties too as well, right? So there's not really a concern there. All of them are in a couple of hours resolved and everybody's happy, the community's happy. They're true community events. I've been a part of almost every single one of them and they're really incredible.

Let's see. What else can we do here? Sorry. Oh, and most importantly, my soon-to-be wife and I are actually the executives of the estate that will be running and taking over the house once they have passed. And I think that's extremely important to know that we have no plans on turning it to a museum. We've never had that. Not going to be a cultural center or anything like that as well. Basically...

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Brian, your time is up.

Thank you. I just wanted to make sure that you guys know that we're taking care of it and thank you.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Denise Silva followed by Mike Silva and Angel Barnes.

Good evening, Council. I'm Denise Silva. My husband and I have been living in Floral Park for five years. We left our home in Garden Grove because of a cultural center that went up in our neighborhood which brought heavy traffic every Sunday for gatherings and every Wednesday as they gave food that day. In addition to heavy traffic, folks continued to partially block driveways and cause safety issues when they cross the street without paying attention and stop in the middle of the street talking and ignoring cars trying to get around them. In addition

to the traffic, the loudspeakers became intolerable every single week when we just wanted to relax at home on the weekends. I would like to commend the Cues for putting so much effort into preserving a centuries-old piece of history. I'm actually amazed that Vietnam would allow such a treasure to leave their country. Preserving history is what attracted my husband and I to Floral Park, and we have found dozens of like-minded neighbors who agree we should indeed preserve it. If everyone involved in the approval of the CUP in question is completely honest about what they would like to accomplish,

I think they would be surprised that neighbors would be willing to help accomplish it. Dr. Q stood here at the Planning Commission meeting and stated that she and her husband just wanted to wreck the Moon Pavilion for their own personal enjoyment. it. If that were the case, there wouldn't be such a large group of concerned neighbors involving trying to appeal the Planning Commission approval. Not only has the couple talked about wanting to share all of their treasured histories with the public for future generations, it states right on their Viet Heritage website with the address on the heliotrope here in

Santa Ana that their mission is to preserve and share Vietnamese culture and heritage with future generations. It also states that they host cultural exhibitions, community cultural events and youth-oriented educations. Again, I agree that all of this is important and should take place, just not in a residential neighborhood where it is not zoned. Lastly, Dr. Q also stated that she and her husband could not afford to comply with all the conditions of the Mills Act. If that is the case, how will they afford to maintain a centuries-old pavilion? It is a big concern that we'll fall in disrepair like some of the areas of their home.

Thank you.

Good evening, Council. I'm Mike Silva, Floral Park resident. Just to correct staff real quick, the vote I believe was unanimous on the Planning Commission. It was a 4-2 vote. And in fact, they offered to send it back to the HRC and that was a 3-3 split, so it died. So they were trying to get it back to the HRC committee. Real quick, they're only getting the ADU fixed because they need something. They built the ADU without permits. None of their structures have permits. The only reason they're getting permits now is because they need something from you guys.

They were not going to fix that without this pressure, I can tell you that for sure. The new height is 23 feet. The old limit was 15. As you can imagine, that's going to be four times larger than the wall. The wall is a six-foot wall. Now you're going to go to 23 feet. Even though it's a historical neighborhood and the home is on the Mills Act like most of ours, this project was never reviewed by the Historical Resources Committee, which makes no sense to me because that's your experts. In fact, Planning Commissioner Escamilla tried to get the Planning Commission to refer it to the HRC. He asked several times.

He couldn't get enough votes, and it died 3-3. So he was probably the expert on the Planning Commission, in my opinion, on the HRC stuff, because he was the interface, and he recommended it go that way. The previous staff report recommended, oh, Peter already fixed that. The Floral Park Association did not take a vote on this. It's not in our jurisdiction to do that. Our biggest concern, as my wife noticed, is the traffic. So, if this is as big and culturally important as it belongs in a museum, not in someone's backyard. I assume anyone that hears about it will want to come by and visit it, which should.

They should want to come see it. But it's going to attract traffic. This should be at the Bowers Museum or someplace similar where everybody can see it and enjoy it. The applicant stated the Moon Pavilion will contribute to cultural diversity and architectural peace. That doesn't belong in someone's backyard. I hope you will help us preserve the history, the safety, and the community that makes Floral Park so desirable. Thank you for your time.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Next three speakers. Angel Barnes followed by Ed Marashi and Maureen Lukaszewski.

Good evening. the grounds for allowance of conditional use permits are when the proposed use will contribute to the general well-being of the neighborhood or the community. The fact that you've got this many people in opposition at 10 o'clock at night. Clearly, the neighborhood is not, in general,

asking for this. Secondly, that the CUP will not be detrimental to the safety or general welfare of persons residing in the community, and thirdly, will not adversely affect the present or future economic stability of the area. I attest that none of these three grounds are being served by allowing this CUP. A Moon Pavilion is a cultural attraction, although the

homeowner asserts that it will be completely obscured by greenery and bamboo leaves and surrounding shrubs or trees. None are tall or wide enough to hide a 23 and a half foot structure. And there is a wall around the property, but it is six feet, which is 18 feet shy of the height of this structure. Therefore, strangers who would not

normally be driving into Floral Park will be coming by to see this reducing I argue neighborhood security this home was built in 1939 the majority of the homes on heliotrope were built in the late 30s early in the 40s and sell today I'm told for approximately 1.8 million dollars those who purchased these expensive homes on heliotrope and now if you could conclude your comments your

time is up yes they had no reason to believe that their block would ever consist of anything other than single-family residences and this proposed structure is completely inconsistent with the historic nature of floor thank

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

Thank you, ma'am. Your time is up. Appreciate it.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Ed Marashi.

Hello. Good evening, commissioners and staff. My name is Ed Marashi and I'm a Floral Park resident. And for full transparency, I'm also the chairman of the Santa Ana Historic Resource Commission. I attended all the meetings and yes, it was a Commissioner Benninger was sitting there, he voted no. Commissioner Mesquo was sitting there and he voted no. So it was not unanimous. I wanted to bring that up. The other thing is I want to paint a picture of this. This property was built in 1938. The Maharaja Vindor, who was the richest person

at the time and the prince of that state in india built this house because he didn't want a lindbergh baby situation there was turmoil in the country and he built this property to make it safe so you look at that property there are no windows at the ground floor and there are the high walls and everything else it is the only royal palace on mainland america soil that's what we're talking about it is a landmark property the highest status there is so I wanted to paint that picture and then I wanted to give you an option I'm an engineer and

I like options so your first option is to take it back to the HRC Commissioner Mesquia is a member of the HRC and was on the planet is on the Planning Commission and he did try to push for that to get some expert input and pin it And I'd say that because it is, like I said, a very significant property. The second thing is, if you're going to go with allowing the variance, I would be against that because it gives a false history of that neighborhood. You heard that you're going to be able to see the tower in the side, and that is a false,

and it's as high as the house, a two-story house, that's a false narrative. The second thing is if you do want to allow it, then again, look out for the neighbors. I'm worried about the lights, I'm worried about the visibility.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

Thank you, sir. Your time is up.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Next three speakers, Maureen Lukaszewski, Diana Christopherson, Annie Burns.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

As a reminder, you have two minutes to make your comments. We do have another public hearing. We want to hear from everybody, but we do also have to finish by midnight. So please say your piece. We want to hear from you. We want to make a decision on this. Thank you. Uh-oh. Are you ready?

Yes, ma'am. Hi. I live right down the street from this house. And, I mean, you've already heard it's a prominent home. It's right on the corner. It's a busy corner. It's right dead in the middle of Floral Park. The real reason why I'm here and the one thing I wanted to add is I went to a party at the house once and you know the street was closed it's a big thing it's not just a little backyard neighborhood barbecue and the reason why I'm upset is because she was on the microphone I can't think of her name but the homeowner and she announced at this party on a microphone to like

200 people that her intent was to turn this home over to a non-profit and it was going to be open to the public for everyone to see. And I was stunned. I mean, I was just, you know, a bunch of us neighbors were there and we're like, what the heck? She can't do that. Anyway, I toured the backyard. It isn't like a normal family home. It's these sort of artifacts all stacked up back there and now she wants to add this elevated giant thing. It just isn't, it doesn't go with the neighborhood. It's not in line even with the house. It doesn't look to me right even with the house.

I spoke to her a couple of days ago and she knocked on my door because she's, you know, out trying to talk to people. Anyway, the point is she says she's not going to do that. But I said, why did you say that then? Why did you get on a microphone and announce that? And she doesn't really answer you. So I guess mostly I'm just really concerned that she's not telling the truth about it. Or maybe the nonprofit's going to do it. She's not going to do it. I don't really have the answer. But, you know, I was sitting there, and that's what she said. She said that was their intention. Thanks. Thank you.

Hello, I'm Diana Christofferson.

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

Will you please walk up to the mic? Thank you.

I'm Diana Christofferson. I do want to say that your website said three minutes. I prepared something that was under three minutes. I'm going to talk as fast as I can. My name is Diana Christofferson. I'd like to understand why the homeowners at 2221 North Heliotrope Drive continue to receive lax oversight and preferential approvals by the City of Santa Ana. As you are aware, the homeowners in the past have completed projects without permits that violate city code. They have been allowed to continually add structures that have no relevance to the home at all without permits and that violate city code. In fact, it is

documented that the senior staff recommended they not be provided any further permits until they remedy the past code violations. Yet this recommendation by your own staff goes ignored and instead you reward them with approval for yet another incompatible structure. Their home has an important history. It's an art deco masterpiece that is already muddied by incongruity styled structures and the sculptures. The historic house itself does not appear to be well maintained and I've been told that work that has been done has been done without permits and

using materials not supported by the code. While the Vietnamese structures they've incorporated are beautiful and significant and by all means should be preserved, is this property and Floral Park really the place for them? As you've heard, they've on multiple occasions voiced their intent for this property to become a cultural center. They've written to council members and stated this endeavor. They have a foundation website where it specifically says they plan to hold events and share the property. However, the homeowners and their representatives have also frequently presented

a different story saying they have no intention of converting any of the site into a museum or similar. With the duplicity of these comments, would it not be appropriate to rescind approval for this pavilion as it clearly moves them one step closer to their often stated goal of creating a cultural center. Lastly, this issue goes far beyond this pavilion. Your approval sets a dangerous precedent opening a door for other incompatible structures within our neighborhood. It promotes that anyone can just build it. Your time is up. Anyone can, I'm very close. Anyone can

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

just build it and apologize. Your time is up please. Thank you. Your time is up. 9 8. No, no, your time's up. Thank you.

I would respectfully urge that you not move forward tonight.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

The next three speakers.

And instead rescind approval. And turn the decision over to the historic resource board.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Annie Burns. Thank you for your time. Erwin Schawwecker and Ellen Roldaway.

Hello. My name is Annie Burns. I just want to say many things actually, but I can't. So with you seeing so many neighbors that live in the surrounding areas that have such strong negative opinions, then you have to translate that, that future like-minded buyers in the neighborhood of those homes would be less interested just as I am, just as all my other neighbors are. And that translates to negative property values too. So you're causing financial harm in addition to emotional harm. This is a historic neighborhood. I moved in because I loved the way the homes were maintained.

And this one started looking different as they started adding things that didn't match. We tried to make our homes match to look like the area because it's a historic neighborhood. This is a new structure, so it's not like they're repairing an existing structure. So they're violating the code, and they need the code to be modified just for them. Why not for everybody else then? That means I can build a tower in my backyard. Everybody can build a 24-foot tower. Now that we are allowing one, we all get it. But another thing is this is not being put in their backyard. This is a corner lot.

There is no place you can put this structure where it can't be seen from one street or the other or both. And I looked. It will be taller than the existing home. I've looked at the trees. There are huge gaps in those trees. sometimes we take those trees down or we trim them because of disease you can guarantee that the trees will always be there so tall that they're gonna hide this structure they don't currently hide it I can't believe that we're going to maintain and things and so when the trees get cut back or trimmed are we gonna take this down okay that's okay then and then there's the thing about

why the heck does it have to be the 23 feet there's the the bottom level isn't quite high enough to walk under.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Annie, your time is up.

I had so many more things.

Hi, my name is Irwin Schallwecker. I've lived in Floral Park for 50 years now. We've been on the historic register of Floral Park for over 20 years. We maintain our property based on the belief that there's a reason for Santa Ana to have historic properties maintained for the future. And this is not in keeping with the existing historic property on that land.

It will not be of reasonable height, and it is not something that belongs in the neighborhood of this institution.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Next three speakers. Ellen Roldaway, Laszlo Byrd, Burrow, and Michael Hirsch.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Ellen?

Good evening. I'm Mrs. Ellen Calderway, Mayor and Council Members. Thank you for your consideration. I'm here to speak against this project, wonderful project, wrong place. I ask you to take a look at some of the objective evidence that shows this is not any longer being used as a private residence, but a commercial operation by your definition.

And you told us that when this happened, this would trigger either revocation or a review. And we're at that point. You cannot, without abusing your discretion, find in favor of the appellant tonight. You need to do some more homework if you'd like to know what I think. And that is, I reviewed the department files, and I found a note from the owner to Jesse and Ty. it was an honor and pleasure to see you at the preview of the Heritage Garden on February 18th, 2023. The recognition for Viet Heritage Foundation represents such an encouragement of our endeavors

to contribute a genuine Vietnam cultural space for people of Viet Heritage and also for the community at large. That's what we are going to have, and that's a wonderful idea, but perhaps not in this location. And then there are some wonderful pictures of this event in the backyard of my neighbor and the award for the Vietnam Heritage Foundation. But nowhere in the objective evidence do I see those organizations listed and you need to know what they are doing, the wonderful things. I also

found that the Viet Heritage Foundation are incorporated with their offices at 2221 North Heliotrope. And the Q's are the chief executive officers. And their purpose is to promote arts, culture and education activities.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Ellen, your time is up.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Thank you. And finally, do you have a website?

Here's Dr. Chan.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Ma'am, your time is up. Thank you very much.

Please take a look. Be at Heritage. Thank you so much.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Laszlo Biro, Michael Hirsch, Louise Hoffman.

Yes, I'm Laszlo Biro. Thank you for hearing me out. I live in Heliotrope also, and I've seen the traffic, a big increase in traffic on the days that they've had events over there. I've had some neighbors complain they couldn't get out the driveway because the street is blocked. I've lived there 14 years now. I didn't think I was moving into a street with a cultural center, which is becoming. Some people lived there 40 years. They didn't think they were moving into that type of neighborhood, or going to live in that type of neighborhood. And I've got to ask each of you over here, what if this was your neighborhood?

What if that cultural center was being set up on your street? What if it was right next to your backyard or right next to you? What would you be doing? How would you vote on that? Or what would you think should be the vote for that, if it was happening in your backyard?

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Michael Hirsch.

Good evening. My name is Michael Hirsch. It's actually Dr. Michael Hirsch. And I am one of the newer residents to Heliotrope. I purchased my property, which is also an Art Deco home, two and a half years ago at nearly $2 million. And I am appalled by the possibility of continuing what has already become an eyesore, in my opinion. These are personal opinions. My objection is based on my observations. I walk by the house and I see no preservation. I do not see pride in ownership.

I see a lot of effort and money being thrown in the backyard. Nothing being done over the two and a half years that I have lived in that neighborhood to that amazing home that I've done so much research. It is of incredible significance. That is a masterpiece, and I see it falling into decay. The side street on Santa Clara where this is proposed, it is filthy, dirty. That is their property, where everybody else in the neighborhood takes care of the area between the street and the sidewalk. They don't. The bottom of the entire house is peeling.

The roof is in terrible shape. Let them fix up the main house before you allow any further acceptance of you know building property or you know taking care of the backyard. Take care of the main house. Thank you for your time.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Louise Hoffman, Stacy Cato, Tracy Nguyen.

I am excuse me my name is Louise Hoffman I have lived on Haley Trove the same block as the house on the other side of the street I've lived there about 12 years but my family purchased the house in 1969 so it's been in the family a long long time excuse me it's a beautiful residential neighborhood. It is not a commercial neighborhood. We absolutely do not need a cultural center on our street, in our neighborhood. Everybody, just about everybody takes pride of ownership

in their house. Yeah, it's bothered me. I've seen it for years and years. It was an art deco house, and then Asian things started being built. And they don't go together. But the owners had a right to do that. I agree. But I'm mostly concerned about the traffic.

And the traffic, we have sex and neighborhood events, and the traffic is really bad. The street gets blocked off. If we have buses of people coming in, I know she said it wouldn't happen very often, but if it's going to be open to everybody a lot of people are going to be coming in to see it and we we get enough traffic as it is we don't need more thank you

there council members my name is Stacy Cotto I've been a resident helo trip since 1996 And I voiced many of the concerns that fellow neighbors have voiced. What I'd like to do is I'd like to focus on some specific items within the planning documents. So as noted on the April 25, 2022 Planning Commission minutes, Resolution Exhibit A, .11, quote, prior to building permit final, the property shall be brought in full maintenance compliance at all, and you can read that, it's just pointed out for reference.

So as noted in some of these documents, there were two significant building code violations that were unpermitted. The first one was the unauthorized removal and replacement of iron casement windows original to the property in violation of the municipal code. And this was cited in the March 20, 2022 Planning Commission meeting. As far as I can tell, this replacement was apparently concealed, there was actually a termite tent that was put up to conceal the replacement of the windows.

While it has been stated that a settlement was reached with the State regarding this violation, it does not appear that the Historic Resource Commission was ever consulted on it. Further, in public comments made by the applicant on the August 24th Planning Commission meeting, the cost for compliance to replace the casement windows was a million dollars. However, it appears there's no documentation provided in regards to that. A similar statement was made by the owners regarding a roof modification they wanted to do the house several years ago which was a few by a roofing expert knowledgeable about the firework that

needed to be done. Stacey your time is up. Okay thank you. Tracy Nguyen followed by

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Allison Thompson and Dean McCleskey. Good evening Madam Mayor and City Council my

name is Tracy Nguyen. I volunteer for Dr. Nguyen and Dr. Chan Nguyen for Project Vietnam Foundation and I've known them for about six years now. I want to address some things that I heard tonight that were incorrect. When this gentleman over there presented the facts about the case, he said that there's gonna be stuff blocking the structure which is 20 feet high, right? People keep saying that it's visible but it's actually not gonna be visible. Now the neighbors that are touching her house that live next to her, that have the most standing in here, are

not bothered by this. They're actually in support of this. I also want to acknowledge that we live in a county that houses the largest Vietnamese enclave outside of Vietnam and I'm hearing things like, oh Asian-ness started coming in. Am I not accepted are we not accepted right our country orange county santa ana is a melting pot oh my gosh i love driving through santa ana and going to my local like taco santa and speaking my broken spanish like this is what santa is for me it is home to my people minorities right and who are they to decide that somebody who decided to invest their life in our culture is not equal to other

culture in in that in that neighborhood right and also you know they do rent it out to los Angeles Museum, Bowers, things like that for the people to come see and check out the exhibit that they have, right? It is not going to be open to the public. There's no intent for it to be a museum or any kind of cultural center, right? As of today, I can guarantee that that is not the intention. And that's why they're at Bowers Museum, all the other things. They're in colleges so that students can be exposed to it. This is a gift to our community because they've worked so hard

to get us things that are not in the context of the war. We know the Vietnamese culture is we know it as a war right that's what we think of we think of Vietnam but this stuff is from like the 1800s bronze era we cannot get this anywhere local to us this is so special and we should value that we have it and it's here and it's being lent out to all the museums and colleges right but this is their private collection in their home it is not for the public to go willingly walk through right so I just wanted to make that clear and it is not every week that they have people over that is also not true time is up Thank you very much.

I appreciate it.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Alison Thompson.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Alison. Followed by Dean McCluskey, Miguel Pulido.

Hi, I'm Dean McCluskey. and I live about two blocks from the property. I've been in West Floral Park for 12 years. Love it. I love Floral Park. It's very social. It's very diversified. People's homes are different. They're not cookie cutter. And I have known Chan and Quinn from the gym. I met them at the gym and I got to know them better. They go back to Vietnam every year for about a month and do surgeries. and even at their advanced age, it's amazing how busy they are. I have been in their backyard, and I have seen the pavilions, and they are absolutely beautiful.

They're made from ironwood, very strong. It's the kind of tree that you would find in Hanoi. Hanoi almost looks like a city in a forest, because the ironwoods are so tall and so big that you would not realize you were in a city. Anyway, it's absolutely beautiful. I understand the concerns about having lots of traffic, and I haven't personally seen that. I go by their house at least once a day, and I have seen school buses there twice in the 12 years that I've been there. But the thing is, I believe the Planning Commission actually addressed this, because one of the requirements

is the pavilion shall remain a structure for private use, and thereby preserving the community character. The pavilion shall not be designed or be intended for public access or viewing, or used by members of the general public. The use of the structure and the subject property shall be prohibited from use for commercial purposes, including but not limited to tours, museums, use festivals, and if any of that is violated, then the permit would be withdrawn. Thank you. Thank you.

Madam Mayor, members of the City Council, I'm the guy that lives right across the street, and I'm in favor of it. If you look at the bamboo that they have in front, it's very high. And this is not the Taj Mahal that's being built. This is a 12 by 12 structure without walls. It's not going to change the whole future of Central or Floral Park. It really isn't. And what I will tell you is that the neighbor right to the east, Matthew Carver, my friend, I know him well, he's in favor.

He signed a petition on behalf of the Quincuse in favor. Here, and I want to give this to the clerk, is a statement by Sonia Melching, who lives on the other side, immediately to the south of her, of this home. And she's in favor. This is an amazing property. It was built by Allison Hohner, 1938, where I am blessed to be able to live in his old home. and he built it on behalf of the Maharaja of India, who was the richest man in the world at the time. If you look at the walls on this house, they're unscalable

so that nobody can arrive and kidnap anybody, for example. It's a truly unique property. They've done a lot of work to fix the roof, to fix the windows. They had to go and fight City Hall at one point in court. and they won the bill the windows they built was a court order at the end of the day so please support staff recommendation it's a beautiful home in a beautiful neighborhood and i think this is

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

going to make it even better thank you mayor and city council we do have one speaker on zoom Manny Escamilla if you could unmute and make your comments.

Mayor and Council can you all hear me there?

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Yes.

Okay yeah no I just wanted to clarify my position so Manny Escamilla on the Planning Commission and Historic Commission and really the only I guess more systematic reason or systemic reason wanted to have the hrc uh review the item was just uh as a landmark structure you know believe that landmark structure should um as a general rule and policy go to the store commission prior to going to the planning commission then then you know prior to then potentially going to the city council so it was more of an administrative question uh more than anything

i do believe and agree with the staff's assessment that moving the pavilion over from the center kind a courtyard area over tucked away into the corner along Santa Clara actually does preserve the historic integrity of the structure more so than the original location. I thought that was a fairly good compromise along with the additional landscaping and do believe that it is a overall value add to the neighborhood and community. I do believe that the intentions of the property owners are fully wholeheartedly in support of the overall historic character of the community as a

whole and i would note that at the planning commission we did receive notices from the two adjacent neighbors that they were in support of the project but again the kind of three three discussion that bedlocked and my opposition was really more of the procedural question and i do believe that maybe in the near future you should look at revising the requirements for landmark structures to go to hrc prior to going to planning for recommendation on all discretionary items but again that was really the question and here if you were to deny or I guess approve the appeal we basically be starting off at square one and really

wasting about two more years of effort which I do believe is unwarranted in this particular situation so I do hope that you support staff deny the appeal and essentially allow the Manny your time is at this time if the appellant and

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

applicant would like to come provide rebuttal comments peter christopherson

greetings again mayor and city council um i think you've heard a lot tonight and i think one of the main things we all have to deal with is what are the facts that are on the table we're told one thing something else happens and that's a consistent thing that's been happening for quite some time so I seriously hope all of you take a look at it look at the facts and go forth but the bottom line is I think how would you feel if you had and I live across the street if I had a community center a museum whatever you want to call it with a hundred two hundred people there parking up down the

street blocking other neighbors and then doing nothing with keeping the upkeep of their historic home. I mean you've got the paint peeling and everything. I don't know where the money's coming from but it just do we really need another pavilion in the backyard or do we have enough? Do we not take this new pavilion and put it down the Bowers, buy a piece of commercial property because I think if you lived across the street you would be up in arms along with the neighbors that that have spoken today. So thank you very much and hope you can take a look at all the facts when you make your decision.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Quinn Q.

Thank you, City Council, for allowing me to address some of the issues which are raised by my neighbors. First of all, the last comment from Mr. Christopherson was that if you live around and near it, you may be offended by the addition. But you have heard from Mr. Pulido, and then you have letter of support from all the immediate neighbors, the same people who are next to me, who are staring at it, who may be bothered by it,

and they have provided letters, they have provided signature to the fact that it doesn't bother them. So that's one of the things that I would like to state. So why would it bother my neighbor from remote, from the end of the other block? Maybe when he walks his dog, but you have heard testimony from one of the homeowners who says that he goes by every day, at least once a day, and he likes what it looks like. And then the diversity is good. And there is, staff has documented that there is the analysis that there is no repercussion

from what happens in the garden towards the look of the main house. Now, the other thing that I, there are some of the things that I would like to restate. We may have thought about a while ago because we have museum class collection to later on contribute it to the community, not only by, mainly by lending it to other institutions. There are a number of, there is a Vietnam Heritage Museum that we talk to, and then who may, which may potentially benefit from using some of our items on loan or exhibit.

There are many ways that we can use it to enhance the community and to have a lot of people coming to see it. The last thing that I would like.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Madam, your time is up. Thank you. Okay. Your time is up. Thank you.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

One sentence.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Your time is up. Thank you.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 15

Okay. All right. Thank you.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Mayor and City Council, that concludes the public speakers.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 15

Mayor, I'm so sorry to interrupt you, but I am required to advise you that per resolution number 2023-047, the City Council has a hard stop to this City Council meeting at midnight. According to that resolution, you are to, at 11 p.m., determine which of the remaining agenda items can be considered and acted upon by 12 midnight. night, and you are then to continue all other items in which additional time is required until a future City Council meeting. Majority vote of the Council can be taken to extend the meeting beyond 12 if you want to discuss specific items.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 15

So I know that you have this public hearing, you have another scheduled, and then you have two additional Council items plus your Council comments. So if you'd like to just take a moment and decide what you want to finish hearing.

Phil BacerraItem 15

Mayor, I move that we wrap up the two public hearing items and then continue the two council member request items to our next scheduled meeting.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Councilman Hernandez.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 15

Thank you, Madam Mayor. I'll make a sub-motion to move this item and to approve staff's recommendation and to move the public hearing that is in front of us to the next meeting as well as the council member requested items.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

I'll support your motion, Councilman Hernandez.

Benjamin VazquezItem 15

I can have a motion as well. I do have the family of Edgar Vargas. The mother came and spoke and I would move to let's listen to this one first and move the next two items to the next meeting.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Then we're going to end up going through the whole thing and we'll be here until after midnight. Hold on one second. He's not done.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

Thank you, Councilmember Lopez. Councilmember, you want to make a, you want to? Yes.

Jessie LopezItem 15

Is there a motion and a second on the floor?

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

Yeah. There, I've heard three motions. Only one received a second, which was Councilmember Hernandez's motion seconded by Mayor Emesqua TO FINISH PUBLIC HEARING ITEM 34 AND CONTINUE THE REMAINING ITEMS TO THE NEXT MEETING?

Phil BacerraItem 15

YES. ROLL POINT CLARITY BECAUSE HE ACTUALLY SAID LET'S GO AHEAD AND APPROVE THIS ITEM. AND THEN.

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

I SECOND IT.

Phil BacerraItem 15

SO YOU WANT TO DO AN APPROVAL?

Jennifer L. HallItem 15

PUBLIC HEARING WASN'T CLOSED YET.

Phil BacerraItem 15

HEARING IS NOT CLOSED YET.

Jessie LopezItem 15

NO.

Jessie LopezItem 15

RIGHT. SO WE HAVE TO CLOSE THE PUBLIC HEARING AND THEN VOTE ON THE MOTION ON THE FLOOR. CORRECT. AND THEN WE CAN FINISH IT.

Valerie AmezcuaItem 15

so but that's not we're gonna go through this process to close it out all right no further comments at this time i hereby close the public hearing do any council members have comments

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

mayor pro tem thank you mayor um first of all thank you so much to all the speakers who came out today um i know it's late my first council meeting i think also to make public comments also came out really late so a couple uh items that i'd like to address tonight um obviously i've been at the Kiyos home the Maharaja house I've never been inside it only in the backyard and it was a wonderful mid-autumn event I do have a few questions though you know folks are talking about the traffic and the tours and the cars but the staff report indicates or the responses to the

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

questions indicate that there's never been a complaint at that location

correct correct we did not receive any formal complaints thank you and

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

And to the gentleman who just moved in a couple years ago, I guess I have a question about the Floral Park Home and Garden Tour, because it's my understanding that every year the Floral Park Neighborhood Association opens up homes in Floral Park for members of the public to buy tickets to walk through a variety of historic homes to raise money, tens of thousands of dollars, for a variety of charitable events. it seems to me like that is more of a commercial business or at least some type of nonprofit you know generating business than having some friends over

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

for a cultural party I'd also like to say that more recently the Floral Park Neighborhood Association had the 2024 opening night gala celebration at the historic Russell house which is the Russell house at 2009 North Victoria Drive which is also in Floral Park and a designated residential property. It's my understanding that the Floral Park Neighborhood Association did not receive a permit to hold a gala which had amplified music hundreds of guests. The pictures look amazing I hope to get to go next year or getting permits to do the home and garden tour. It's also my understanding that the home and garden

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

which again raises money has a wine and beer event involved with it with a variety of wine and beer vendors some local some in the county wonderful that seems like a bigger traffic generating public engaging event that happens annually for over ten years in the Floral Park neighborhood then two seniors who are looking to preserve their history their culture after being refugees and and forced to leave their home who's trying to preserve historic property that does not exist anywhere else in the world. So I would like to move to deny the appeal, approve the CUP, and make sure,

Alvaro NuñezItem 15

and I want to say that staff needs to make sure that they comply with every provision of the conditions of approval, including the maintenance and upkeep, which right now they are in compliance with, and that they do not raise money or do any commercial business on the private property. Today, I can invite two school buses of children from Santa Ana High School to my home to tour my little townhouse if I want to. That is not a commercial business. And I don't think anyone would say that having a party with your friends or with your neighbors in the street is a commercial business. Thank you.

David PenalozaItem 15

I'll second Mayor Pro Tem fans motion with comment. Mayor, really quickly, I just wanted to thank everyone that came out to speak in support. A little disappointing at some of the racial undertones that were made with the various speakers. I will say that if today was 1938 and the Maharaja of Indore was here trying to get approvals to build his home, I could probably guarantee that some of you would be here speaking against it. And I would just say that thank you, a Mayor Pro Tem fan, for your comments that you made. And that is it. I support the motion. Mayor?

Phil BacerraItem 15

Yes. Thank you. I'm not going to be supporting the motion and I'll tell you why. This house, I guess the historic value of this house is one thing. You have the story. But the actual style of the house is very distinct. I think that what's being proposed is amazing for our city. It's something that to bring that to our city is wonderful. I am excited about the idea of that coming to our city, but where should it be? That's why we have zoning. That's why we have this desire for historic preservation of our historic resources.

Phil BacerraItem 15

This home, just a real quick Google search, the home, there was an attempt by the owners to remove its landmark status at one point. So to say that the structure, that they're going to do all these things to preserve it, but they many years ago were already trying to take away that historic designation which would allow them to do modifications that would probably denigrate the style of the home now you go to certain neighborhoods say my neighborhood a lot of the homes look the same so if you were to take something like what's being proposed and put that in our neighborhood you would look at

Phil BacerraItem 15

and go okay that's different but it doesn't really make a difference in regards to the style of the homes in the neighborhood. Floral Park is blessed. Allison Hohner was brought up. Allison Hohner custom-built many of the homes in that neighborhood and that particular home obviously we heard the story of the Maharaja that obviously had some custom built to it but with that property it has a distinct style. It's a very art deco style and I think that when you buy into a neighborhood that has distinct architectural features you buy into that

Phil BacerraItem 15

feature or that style and I think that this particular project does not I think keep in with the style of that home I love the idea of what's being brought to the community but where it should be and that particular house that may not be the best place for it one thing I would ask my colleagues though if you guys are going to approve it. The condition in regards to the landscaping is very vague. I would say if you guys were genuinely interested in making sure that it was shielded, that there'd be something more distinct. And I would ask our director of planning for some guidance that maybe what could be