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Recording in progress.

Alvaro Nuñez

you're live mayor thank you so very much i hereby call the santa City Council meeting to order at this time. This meeting is taking place with in-person attendance and by teleconference via Zoom. The public may access the meeting via the Santa Ana YouTube channel or the city's website. Please bear with us as the technology may disrupt the flow of the meeting. Madam Clerk, please conduct the roll call. Councilmember Becerra? Here. Councilmember

Jennifer L. Hall

Hernandez? Here. Councilmember Lopez? Here. Councilmember Penaleza? Here. Present. Council Member Vasquez. Present. Mayor Pro Tem Pham. Here. Mayor Meskwa. Present. We have five members. That is a quorum. Thank you.

Alvaro Nuñez

Madam Clerk, are there any additions or deletions to the closed session agenda? There are not. Thank you. Do any council members need to announce their abstentions on any closed session items?

Alvaro Nuñez

Seeing none, do we have any speakers? Madam Clerk, for closed session?

Jennifer L. Hall

No. We have no speakers, and we did not receive any emails related to the closed session agenda.

Alvaro Nuñez

Perfect. At this time, we'll recess to closed session. Thank you.

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Thai Viet Phan

Recording in progress.

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Alvaro Nuñez

Madam Clerk, please start the meeting. Yes, Mayor, go ahead, please. I hereby reconvene the Santa Ana City Council meeting to order. This meeting is taking place with in-person attendance and by teleconference via Zoom. The public may access the meeting via the Santa Ana YouTube channel or the City's website. Please bear with us as the technology may disrupt the flow of the meeting. As a reminder, this is a meeting to conduct the business of the City. As Mayor, I am afforded the opportunity to call for a recess or break, or even to clear the meeting room if a meeting becomes too disruptive to properly conduct business.

Alvaro Nuñez

Warnings will be provided. For everyone's safety, per the fire marshal, please do not stand or place objects in the aisles, in front of the dais, along the back wall of the council chamber, or in front of entrances and exits. To ensure that all members of the public may watch and participate in the meeting without disruption, designated media areas for filming and photography are marked. and if you have any questions please see our PIO. Guidelines for members of the news media and anyone else who wishes to film or photograph the meeting are available in the lobby. During City Council presentations and oaths of

Alvaro Nuñez

office, guests of individuals being recognized are invited to come to the front to take photos. Madam Clerk please conduct the roll call.

Jennifer L. Hall

Councilmember Becerra? Here. Councilmember Hernandez? Present. councilmember Lopez here councilmember Penaloza present councilmember Vasquez present mayor Persim Phan here mayor Meskwa present all seven members are present madam clerk before we proceed to the Pledge of Allegiance please make announcements thank you for members of the public on zoom or teleconference to request to speak during public comments on agenda or non agenda items within the city's jurisdiction you must dial star 9 from your phone or click the button labeled raise hand from zoom now in order to be in the speaker queue once public comments commence

Jennifer L. Hall

this does not apply to public hearing number 40 related to the budget or the housing authority agenda or public financing authority agenda for which comments will be heard during specified times please hold your comments on those items until called upon thank you thank you this time

Alvaro Nuñez

we'll do the pledge of allegiance gas stone from the city manager's office if you can please come forward and lead us in the pledge of allegiance

Alvaro Nuñez

Where is he? Oh, that's his brother. His twin. Well, I want the twin to come up.

I don't feel bad anymore. I guess I'll be Gaston for today.

Alvaro Nuñez

No, no, please introduce yourself.

So my name is Eduardo Flores, also known as Eddie. I am a senior management analyst for Public Works Admin, Admin Services. Gaston, who most of you probably know and is most of the time always here, is not here today. And he is your twin. And so we're presenting budget, and I'm here today on behalf of Admin Services. Thank you for being here.

All right. Place your hand over your heart. Ready? Begin. Again, I pledge allegiance to the flag, the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

Alvaro Nuñez

Eddie, thank you.

Alvaro Nuñez

At this time, I'd like to call up our police chaplain, please. Mr. Bob Barnett.

Do you have a twin?

Possibly.

simple little prayer tonight. Lord, I want to thank you for the people gathered here tonight, the blessing of this room, and even the joy we've already experienced. I pray a blessing upon our mayor, our city council members, a blessing upon all those, Lord, who have been placed by you in significant strategic places to bless our community. We ask for your wisdom to be here tonight, your favor on our city, and we're always thankful, Lord, the way that you have dealt with us in this wonderful city with some very very wonderful people bless this night bless those to be honored tonight for their

accomplishments and we ask Lord you always bless all of the men and women in our law enforcement and the men and women in the fire authority keep them save Lord in your name we pray amen

Alvaro Nuñez

Thank You Chapman

Alvaro Nuñez

madam clerk are there any additions or deletions to the City Council agenda yes

Jennifer L. Hall

mayor and City Council a few notes for the record for item number 33 a revised EXHIBIT 2, PAVEMENT MANAGEMENT PLAN WAS POSTED ONLINE AND DISTRIBUTED TO THE COUNCIL. FOR ITEM NUMBER 40, THE BUDGET PUBLIC HEARING, FOR THE PROPOSED ORDINANCE, EXHIBIT 1B WAS ALSO REVISED, DISTRIBUTED, AND POSTED, AND A NOTE THAT INTRODUCTION OF THE ORDINANCE WILL REQUIRE A TWO-THIRDS VOTE FOR THE BUDGET PER THE CHARTER. THERE WAS ALSO AN ADDITION ON PAGE 238 OF THE BUDGET BOOK THAT WAS POSTED AND DISTRIBUTED, AND DISCLOSURES FOR AB 1234 FOR THE MONTH OF MAY WERE INCLUDED ON THE PRINTED AND POSTED AGENDA. That concludes my report.

Alvaro Nuñez

Great. Thank you. At this time, we're going to go to ceremony presentations. If I can have the Junior Chief of Orange County and Inland Empire join me, please.

Thank you. Thank you so much.

Alvaro NuñezItem 1

Alright, tonight's a special night. We're celebrating your 70th anniversary in Orange County. Let's give them a round of applause, please.

Alvaro NuñezItem 1

I am here with the Orange County Junior Achievement, but it is their 70th anniversary as I had indicated, and I know I'm going to mispronounce it, Burgundy Onikea, Eric Goodman, Kaylin Morford, and Carlos Mejia. The Junior Achievement of Orange County and the Inland Empire is a dedicated non-profit organization. Their mission is to educate K-12 students in financial literacy work and career readiness and entrepreneurship. Their programs are volunteer-led and align with both national and state educational standards.

Alvaro NuñezItem 1

Last year alone, they positively impacted over 12,700 students in Orange County. Thank you very much. During the last school year, they delivered programming to several schools in Santa Ana, including MacArthur Fundamental, Middle College, Buena Vista, Santiago, Scholarship Prep, and middle schools. Junior achievement addresses the vital knowledge and skills that young people in Santa Ana need. Their goal is to ensure students are able to own their economic success, plan effectively for their future, make informed academic and economic choices.

Alvaro NuñezItem 1

We encourage community members and organizations to support Junior Achievement OC&IE by volunteering, donating, or partnering with them to help reach even more students and make a lasting impact. Congratulations to the Junior Achievement for 70 incredible years of empowering generations to achieve greater heights and create a brighter future. Your dedication to teaching financial literacy, work and career readiness, and entrepreneurship has made a lasting impact on countless students. Thank you for your unwavering commitment and visionary leadership. Please let's give them a round of applause

Alvaro NuñezItem 1

Seventy years long time. I'm not that old yet, but I'm sure I will be there So this is on behalf of the city of Santa Ana and myself and the entire council We'd like to say congratulations on your 70th anniversary. So I know one or two of you want to speak

Okay, great. Thank you very much. So I'd just like to start by thanking the mayor so much for this honor and the council. So I'm a board member for Junior Achievements. I'm also a business owner here in Orange County. I've been working with Junior Achievements the last few years providing entrepreneurship and financial literacy in the schools. So from firsthand experience, I can just tell you coming into the school districts and being able to work with the kids and teach them things that they necessarily need for real life skills moving forward has been an honor.

our pillars at JA are work readiness entrepreneurship and financial literacy and we've served 25,000 students with our programs in OC and IE thank you

well on behalf of Junior Achievement you know we want to say thank you really we couldn't do it without the community members as well as all of the volunteers that we have in our board and you know we really I love that we get to to see a difference in the lives of our, really our future leaders. So, you know, thank you for just your continued support and thank you for this recognition.

Alvaro NuñezItem 1

All right, let's celebrate their 70th anniversary council. If you'd like to take a picture, please come on down.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Alvaro NuñezItem 1

Next we have Councilmember Lopez and the Underground Scholars.

Come on up. Thank you.

Jessie LopezItem 1

Yeah, so if you're here with the Underground Scholars team, come on up.

Jessie LopezItem 1

Hi.

Jessie LopezItem 1

Hello. You know, before I get started with the Certificate of Recognition, I just want to say that I do know Hector Cervantes, his family, and his wife, Anai Contreras, sitting in the audience. We all went to school together here in the city of Santana. And I really am so proud of Anai becoming an attorney, Hector now directing Underground Scholars at UCI, and really all of our peers that grew up in this city that have done incredible things and continue to give back to their community.

community.

Jessie LopezItem 2

So, this certificate of recognition is being presented to Hector Cervantes and Diana Greer. We also have students from the city that are part of the Underground Scholars Program at UCI, like Stephanie Rodriguez, Lucy Mendoza, Casey Flores, Ana Camino, and Jennifer. And the University of UCI Underground Scholars Program is dedicated to facilitating access to higher education for individuals who have been incarcerated, formerly incarcerated, or are impacted by the criminal justice system with the special focus on supporting formerly incarcerated students. This initiative

Jessie LopezItem 2

provides a comprehensive range of supportive services guiding system impacted individuals through the transition from community college to UCI or any other higher education institution. Central to the program's mission is the establishment of a nurturing on-campus environment tailored to the needs of formerly incarcerated system impacted students. This includes academic tutoring, peer coaching, leadership development programs, employment opportunities, and engaging community events. And they often are at many of our community events here in the City of Santa Ana and with our

Jessie LopezItem 2

community college. And beyond direct support the program is actively engaged in advocacy efforts at various levels from individual cases to statewide and national policies. By working to eliminate barriers and create opportunities for justice impacted individuals, the program aims to empower its students and promote systemic change. Additionally, through policy training students are equipped to become advocates of their own right, furthering the cause of justice reform. The origin of UCI Underground Scholars can be traced back to the groundwork laid by the underground scholars initiative the organization

Jessie LopezItem 2

and it was championed at UCI by Hector Cervantes who you know got his masters at the university the program was officially established in 2021 its success is owed to the dedication of individuals such as Diana Greer, Alberto Lule, Ryan Flacco Rising, Lissandra Barrera Rising and Ananda Van Boyan who bring both personal experiences and academic expertise to the table ensuring justice impacted students receive the support they need in these institutions and through education and advocacy the UCI underground scholars program endeavors to break the cycle of incarceration

Jessie LopezItem 2

empower individuals take care of their students and contribute to the creation of a more and just equitable society and I really want to thank Hector for for championing this program at UCI. Thank you so much for your advocacy. It's important that institutions understand that these are also their students at their campus communities, and without the advocacy of people like Hector, these programs would not exist at those institutions.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 2

Yes, so we'll hear from both of you.

Thank you, Council Member Lopez. I just wanna share, and then I'll hand it over to Stephanie, who's a student at UCI. I want to share a little bit about my journey.

So I am from the community here, from Santana. I am a formerly incarcerated individual. These programs did not exist when I was navigating my trajectory as a formerly incarcerated individual in higher education.

And for me, education was the gift that kept on giving, and it really afforded me upward mobility. and most importantly it kept me from going back right it can be and so my mission and my passion is to duplicate that experience for our community members to get as many community members here in the city of Santa Ana to the University of California and that's the work that we're doing at UCI underground scholars through our four pillars of recruitment retention advocacy and wellness making sure that we are well as we're navigating higher education and different barriers that we experience in our daily lives so with that thank you

for hearing me out Thank You councilmember Lopez for this recognition and I'll go ahead and pass it over to Stephanie hello everybody my name is Stephanie Rodriguez and also as Hector I was born and raised in Santa Ana so I started preschool here and so I went my Santa community college and then from there transferred to UCI and being part of this program I am system impacted for those of you that don't know what that means it means that sometimes someone like me had to go through the court system and navigate

that throughout my whole years of life so basically like it was hard for me to navigate school and life when you're part of something that you know both my parents were incarcerated so it was very difficult to be part of that product but but thank God for education. And Santa Ana has been a well city for me growing up, and I was able to navigate that. And when I went to UCI, that's where I met Hector, and this program has helped me be able to break those barriers. I'm also a parent, and so higher education with being a parent,

it's a lot of challenges, a lot of, but, excuse me, like resilience that sometimes I can't believe I'm still standing. but I just want to thank everybody here and the fact that we are getting recognized for this, it just means a lot to me. And also part of the program, I also help transfer students from Santa Community College and community college around us. And it's very rewarding to be able to give back to my community and hopefully soon when I, you know, become in my career, I will be giving back to my community. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Thank you.

Alvaro NuñezItem 2

Mayor Vasquez.

Benjamin VazquezItem 3

I have a neighborhood hero from Heddinger Park. And he was my neighbor for many years. I'd sit on a blue craftsman's house up on the porch and watch him walk by as he'd go to the store and watch you go back home. It was beautiful to watch. So he does a lot of work and he was doing haunted houses and he met up with the Heddinger Park Association. And Nicholas is a resident and he's made remarkable contributions. He has spearheaded two neighborhood events that has significantly enhanced the community and spirit and engagement. Mr. Davis' inclusive approach to event planning and catering to community of all ages and background

Benjamin VazquezItem 3

has ensured that everyone in the neighborhood feels welcome and represented in these activities. These events include Henninger Haunt, Movie Night, and Christmas Caroling, to name a few. All of these events foster a sense of camaraderie and shared enjoyment among neighbors. Mr. Davis has displayed leadership and enthusiasm in fostering community building through these neighborhood events. His efforts have strengthened social bonds, promotes neighborly interaction, and has made Heninger Park a more vibrant and connected community. We are grateful for Mr. Davis' dedication

Benjamin VazquezItem 3

and contributions to our Heninger Park community. His exemplary leadership and commitment to community building make him a true hero of the neighborhood. Thank Thank you so much.

Thank you.

Phil BacerraItem 3

Thank you.

OK, . All right. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I'll be honest. I'm glad I just wasn't getting fines for it.

When I was a kid, there was always a couple of dads that did a little too much on Halloween. And I would think about it all year long. I'd be excited to go trick or treating. And when I would, I'd go door to door and meet all my neighbors and look at them in the eye we get to know each other and somebody has to do that every generation and i really like harmed houses thank you

Alvaro NuñezItem 3

ALL RIGHT. GREAT. THANK YOU. MADAM CITY ATTORNEY, DO YOU HAVE ANYTHING TO REPORT OUT OF CLOSED SESSION?

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 3

MAYOR, COUNCIL MEMBERS AND MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC, WE DID HAVE SEVERAL CLOSED SESSION ITEM DISCUSSIONS EARLIER THIS EVENING, BUT WE DO NOT HAVE ANY REPORTABLE ACTION.

Alvaro NuñezItem 3

Thank you very much. This is the time of the meeting for the City Council to receive comments from the public on agenda and non-agenda items. Madam City Clerk, please explain the public comment procedures and call the first speakers.

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

Thank you, Mayor. Pursuant to resolution number 2023-047, speakers are requested to address the City Council directly and to refrain from profane language, racial epitaphs, and libelous or slanderous statements that disturb the decorum of the meeting. Pursuant to the Brown Act, the City Council may not enter into discussion at this time. Speakers will have three minutes for their comments. Before calling speakers, I'd like to report the following summary of emails provided as of today. There were 10 e-comments that were received by the City, forwarded to City Council, and posted on the City's website.

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

One regarding item 32, one regarding item 36, one for item 39, two for item 41, and five non-agenda related comments. We'll now hear from members of the public that are present, physically present in the Council Chamber, followed by those on the conference call or Zoom, to provide comments on agenda or non-agenda items. When speaking, please state your name and the ward or neighborhood that you reside in for the record. I'll be calling three cards at a time. If when you hear your name you could please line up in the center aisle behind the podium, that would be appreciated.

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

First three speakers, Genevieve Southgate, Kelly Radomski, and Wren Shadowhorse.

Hello Mayor Emeskwa. We're friends from way back and city council members. members. I'm here to support the Bowers Museum and to let you know that we are part of the community and the community is part of us. And just to let you know, my name is Genevieve Barrios-Southgate and I am the Director of Community Programs at the Bowers Museum. Although I presently do not reside in the city of Santa Ana, I have deep roots here. I was born in in a small maternity hospital on Main Street, one block from the Bowers Museum. And I attended high school in Santa Ana,

and I graduated from Santa Ana College. My father, Cruz Barrios, was instrumental in bringing the Mendez v. Board of Education desegregation case to the federal courts. And my father also headed up the effort to annex what is now West Santa Ana, including La Colonia Santa Anita to Santa Ana. So you see I am a Santa Ana girl. In my position at the Bowers Museum I present the beauty, traditions, and the history of different world cultures through art, music, and dance. On average over 2,500 people a month attend our free family festivals and

and senior enrichment art classes. Those are all free for the public. When people ask me what I do in my job, I tell them that I make people happy. Bowers makes people happy. Thank you so much.

Hello. My name is Kelly Radomski. I'm the vice president of external affairs for the Bowers Museum. I've worked there for about six years now. and we're going to talk a lot about numbers tonight and so I won't touch on that myself we've sent over a lot of reports this week also and I think everyone will feel really good when they see those numbers but just for a second I wanted to say beyond the numbers and budgets and contracts I think that what we're talking about is actually a real desire to partner more and more deeply and I just want to say on behalf of the staff that we all welcome that and most

Most of the staff at Bowers Museum choose to work at this nonprofit because we want to do that meaningful work. We wanted to have an impact on our community.

And I'm a resident, a native of Orange County myself, and I was thrilled to join Bowers Museum after working at other larger institutions and museums because of its record of service. service. We're a small team, but really hardworking, and we truly care. I think we want to welcome the opportunity to expand our partnerships and be ever evolving in those, in that work. And I just wanted to say that before we go deep diving into any numbers, because I feel like that's the heart of what we're all here to talk about.

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

Ren Shadowhorse followed by Thuy Nguyen and Sue Palik.

Hello, my name is Ren. I'm the art director of the Bowers Museum.

Alvaro NuñezItem 3

Can you speak closer to the mic please?

Oh, yes. Sorry. My name is Ren. I'm the art director of the Bowers Museum. And as a child, I lived here in Santa Ana and I came, I went to the Bowers on a school field trip. And I come from an immigrant family low-income background it was the first time in my life that i had been surrounded by so much art and culture and coming from the background that i did it was the first time i could believe that i could have a career in the creative arts somehow some way i also come from a military family so we moved around a lot and i was also living with a foster family overseas

and i ended up studying art came back to america and now here i am back in orange county to be the art director of the Bower's Museum is so meaningful for me on a personal level, deeply. I am multicultural, I'm Asian, I'm Pacific Islander, my grandfather is Black, and he's Spanish too. And so when I look at our colleagues, we represent so much of our community, we reflect our community. And all, like, we have so many colleagues who are artists themselves and have art backgrounds. We take our work very seriously, knowing that we are of service to our communities. And when I see the school children who come to the museum,

thousands of them, I see me, I see my siblings, and I see my nieces and nephews in them. And so, in addition to all of this too, I also happen to be disabled. I'm a survivor of traumatic brain injury. I had lost 25 years of memories. And that has not slowed down my career at all. In fact, it has strengthened my advocacy for people of a variety of disabilities, whether they're visible or invisible. And all of us at the museum, we strive always to keep the visitor experience centered and inclusive for people from all walks of life.

And again, as somebody who's openly non-binary in the Pacific Islands, people like me are called mahu. There is one place in Santa Ana that I feel safe, and that is the Bowers Museum. And I also look around at our wonderful city and I think how many other people feel safe at the Bowers Museum. And it's hundreds of thousands every year and it is an honor to be there every single day to work alongside our community members. Thank you.

Hi, my name is Thuy Nguyen. I'm the Chief Financial Officer for the Bowers Museum. I actually didn't is here to try to present some numbers for the council but I didn't know so I accidentally signed up to be speak so I'm gonna speak from the heart I've been working in the Bowers Museum for 25 years and I love every moment of it I am also you know immigration and I saw what the Bowers represent and offer to the public and I'm you know I'm very proud to be part part of the team, and I want to thank you very much for everybody for your support to

the Bauer Museum to make us what we are today, but it is a lot of work to make the place as nice as it is and as safe and present a lot of world art culture. And we are also a multicultural museum. So thank you so much.

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

Sue Palak, followed by Sean Wong O'Hara and Elizabeth Hansberg.

Sue from Ward 4. Good evening, Councilman, Mayor. I find the love for America by so many on this Council to be so shallow at heart. Can you speak into the mic, please? I apologize. Yes, ma'am. Councilwoman Lopez, I went to the Floral Park Memorial Day Ceremony. ceremony. The mayor was there, the riderless black horse, the sheriff's bagpipers, the All-American Boys Choir, the Santa Ana High School Orchestra, and many others who contributed their hearts to the service. Your May newsletter made no mention to your constituents of the Santa Ana Memorial Day services at Farrell Park, and your newsletter was only posted

on May 30th. Kind of sneaky to me. No one would be paying attention as the month was over. Jeff Katz, president of the Floral Park Neighborhood Association, was a steady, inspiring emcee at the Floral Park Memorial Services, and Congressman Lou Correa and our mayor were there and gave inspiring speeches. I felt we were all one at this honoring memorial, paying our respects and love for our country. There was no division of race, politics, or wards, and so many children were there who patriotically brightened the day for everyone. Why were you not there? This is your ward. I heard you were lending your holiday presents

at this serious time starting Friday at a soccer tournament beer fest. Now, this is how it was presented to me. I ask you why you could not find time to honor our fallen veterans, approximately approximately one million and counting. Councilman Penaloza, Becerra, Mayor Pro Tem Phan, and the Mayor all attended Fairhaven Memorial Services together, and Councilwoman Phan gets Memorial Day. God bless you for that. And where were you, Councilman Hernandez and Vasquez? Hmm. I find that the very values that America stands for and why people want to come here are buried by the anti-American

and lack of respect for our flag non-participants on such an important national day as Memorial Day. I'm not asking you to stand for the flag. I'm asking you to explain to us why you won't stand for the flag. I don't understand. Councilman Vasquez, you and I need to have a conversation. I don't want to leave you out tonight. I will be back again because we need to talk about this clutching your pearls business. You keep to be using that quite a bit. And so maybe you might want to start clutching your pearls before I talk. God bless America. Thank you.

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

Sean Huang O'Hara, Elizabeth Hansberg, and Mark I. Lopez.

Greetings. Thank you, council members, for your service. My name is Sean Huang O'Hara. I'm the relatively new president of the Bowers Museum. Museum. From the very moment I knew I was moving here, I wanted to live in Santa Ana, and I live in the neighborhood of Park Santiago. I felt it was important to live and contribute to the community I am proud to serve. I came to the beautiful Santa Ana after leading four art museums around the U.S., ranging from university institutions to city-founded museums museums like the Bowers, to more recently a Museum of Contemporary Art. I have run numerous

living artist programs and worked with and commissioned hundreds of artists in my career. Please know that the Bowers Museum was established as the cultural archive of Orange County, and as such, we have the duty to preserve, protect, and present human culture going back thousands of years and up to the present day. This is a very broad remit, however, it would be only our pleasure to do work and expand our partnerships with living artists. Currently, we work with, partner, and hire hundreds of artists, performers, musicians, writers, designers, chefs, and other creative members of the community

in the many public programs that have served hundreds of thousands of public visitors in our area of Santa Ana which as you know is a financial multiplier for our local economy there were very few organizations with the breadth depth and reach of the Bowers Museum one of the rare called multicultural institutions that brings world recognition to the city of Santa Ana and our creative communities your predecessors much like you today came up up with some genius solutions including the problem of trying to run a museum as a city entity we all know the challenges municipalities have when they are faced

with operating public education institutions your predecessors created a public-private partnership that has returned tens of millions of dollars back to the residents of the city of Santa Ana as you can see by the budgets of the museum going back many years the footprint and effects of the Bower's museum is many times larger than the city's annual investment. The museum is significantly larger than it was in the 1980s, with probably some $70 million worth of facilities and architectural expansion paid for by museum donors and actually given to the city of Santa Ana. These are

facilities paid for by funders, many from outside Santa Ana, for the benefit of the the city of Santa Ana imagine that the transformation of that keep a neighborhood of Santa Ana a major northern gateway to the city has been nothing but short of a miracle we are now able to provide programs in partnership Sean your time is up oh yes thank you so much

Thank you so much. Good evening, Mayor Amacusa and members of the City Council. My name is Elizabeth Hansberg. I'm an advocate for housing. We advocate for permanent supportive housing, affordable housing, all the way up to first-time home buyer opportunity, rental housing. We are trying to end the housing shortage, and so that's what I'm here to talk to you about tonight. I introduce myself and my organization. I'm here for two reasons. First, I want to applaud the city of Santa Ana and its leadership and the good work that you have done to put this historic city on pace to more than exceed the arena that was assigned to all of us.

Many cities across California have failed to act with urgency and that is not the case in Santa Ana. Santa Ana has done an amazing job of building housing, finding space for housing, funding housing, and I know that it is a top concern of you and for your residents. I'm also here to ask you to please move forward with setting formal hearings to approve the or consider and approve the related Bristol project which is 41 acres that we could redevelop into housing and lots of other nice things

that we would like to see to create more availability more density more walkable communities. The redevelopment of this aging 50-year-old auto-oriented shopping center is a rare and unique opportunity to provide new housing in a high-quality infill environment and it's essential given the scarcity of empty developable land in Orange County. We just don't have a lot of sites this big that give us the opportunity to build at scale to address the housing shortage. So I'm here to ask you can we can we move the process forward and I would I want to make sure

that we don't miss the opportunity because if the land if this landmark proposal remains in bureaucratic limbo following two years of extensive community outreach public presentations environmental review and millions of dollars spent in working on designs with the city I'm concerned that we are going to end up with a project that is not going to be what the community has has gotten behind. I was part of the outreach. I participated in some of the meetings. And I know the extent to which they work to try to cultivate support and vision with partners. And I think that if this project does not move forward

and they do go under the Housing Accountability Act, that the project that results from that process will not be the same project. And it will not have all of the programmed 13 acres of open space a lot of mixed use that's just really going to add to it as a destination in a in an area of the county that really is kind of transitional to the arts so my time is up please move it forward thank you so much

good evening i asked us a quick pamphlet to pass up

I'm part of a new community advisory team I'm sitting on Pacific Park, sort of to replace the neighborhood watch. But one of the things, just a quick overview, real quick, if you can read it real quick, take a recognition. But I don't have too much time here. But I'd like to say one of the primary projects we're trying to do this weekend. Now first of all, I'd like to thank code enforcement for helping me out this weekend. We've been communicating how to handle this situation. as it relates to the cities of Santa Ana Sanctuary garage sales. The problem is the Pacific Park, especially the East Chestnut Corridor,

is sort of more often something else that's not what it's supposed to be. We have a lot of outsiders coming in, sort of become like an ad hoc garage sale. People blocking the sidewalks, people blocking the bike trails, people blocking the handicap access. There's a few pictures there of some of the violations there. But like I said, as part of the community advisory team, we're coding for the police department to address some of these issues, sort of a unity of effort program. But like I said, the process has been starting, though. This really is a work in progress right now. But like I said, I'd like to thank Sergio Vareno

for helping a lot. Also, Co-Defense Officer Robert Hernandez and Albert Partita, at least, I wanted to make sure I said that right. They went out this past weekend on Sunday and talked to 72 vendors, so they'll know about the rules. They said they've always done things in the past, but obviously things weren't enforced, so. But hopefully we continue on this venture doing like a soft approach. Hey, we'll give you a warning this time, second time, like a second strike, third time. Maybe the police officer will do fines, maybe give or take us like it says on your city pamphlet there. But like I said, I want to thank them once again.

If you read that, that's what our intent is. Pacific Park Community Advisory Team, we like to work with the city, adapt in new ways, and work with code enforcement and the police department more of like I said, unity of effort to advise the community how to be more involved with quality of life issues, be more involved in the city of engagement. Thank you, ma'am. Thank you. And thank you for the code enforcement. They really helped a lot. Thank you.

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

Next three speakers, Wendy Haas-Roberts, Jason Geroldnick, and Paul Sanford.

Good evening, Mayor and members of the Santa Ana City Council. As many of you may know, my name is Wendy Haase-Roberts. I'm President and CEO of Travel Santa Ana. I'm here this evening for two reasons. First, tourism in Santa Ana matters. HOTELS AND MOTELS ARE INTEGRAL TO SANTA ANA'S ECONOMY, GENERATING HOTEL VISITOR TAX THAT BENEFITS OUR COMMUNITY. TOURISM REVENUE HELPS SUPPORT ARTS AND CULTURE, PARKS AND RECREATION, PUBLIC SAFETY AND INFRASTRUCTURE, AND NEIGHBORHOOD SERVICES. THE 2023 ECONOMIC IMPACT OF TRAVEL REPORT SHOWED SPENDING FROM NEARLY 950,000 SANTA ANA VISITORS

last year was an estimated $414.7 million, a 9% increase year over year. In addition, the Santa Ana tourism industry contributed more than $27 million in local and sales taxes. Without these travel-generated receipts, homeowners in our city would pay an estimated $195 more per year in local taxes. taxes. In short, Santa Ana tourism is vital to the local economy, which brings me directly to my second point this evening. I'm here to ask you to set formal hearings and approve the visionary Related Bristol development project on Bristol Street in South Santa Ana.

Santa Ana has tremendous potential to expand as a leisure and business travel destination, but the city needs to add exciting projects like Related Bristol, which will replace an aging auto centric shopping center with 350,000 square feet of dynamic new retail an unheard of 13 acres of programmed open space and 250 room premium hotel which could be the first to be built in our city since 2011 without question this highly walkable world-class design mixed-use village will attract locals and visitors to the unique shops cafes and the wide range of dining that the developer has said will replace the cities and that will reflect

the city's important diversity and history related bristol will set the standard and become the model for future development along bristol street quarter as well as across the city it will contribute greatly to the city's efforts to bring more positive attention and significant sales and hotel visitor tax revenues to santa ana as we compete in the highly aggressive orange county market for domestic and international travelers centrally located in easy to access by car travel and train air santa ana has potential to grow as a visitor destination like with opportunities like

the related bristol project this time is now to set hearings and approve this incredible project i thank you for listening and thank you for your continued support of the travel and leisure

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

business here in our great city thank you jason garrelnick followed by paul sanford and karen

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen of the council. My name is Jason Goralnik and I am a real estate manager for Albertsons Companies and particularly the Southern California division. We are the parent company of Vaughn's and Pavilions and our store sits at the future, hopefully future related Bristol project. I urge you to please consider this project and approve it.

They are planning to build 41 acres of mixed-use, vibrant community with apartments, shops, restaurants and 13 acres of program public outdoor space. And particularly for the grocery store, they have phased it so that the new store would be built while keeping the existing store open throughout, ensuring that customers will will be able to have access to groceries throughout construction. They have also offered to add a police substation, which would help increase security, especially with a large size project of this size, it is certainly necessary.

More than ever, people want and need safe neighborhoods to live and shop in. If approved, Related Bristol would be a model for safety in Santa anahana therefore i urge you to set formal hearings and approve the related bristol redevelopment project as soon as possible is long overdue for this community and would be a tremendous asset thank you

good evening mayor and members of the san and city council my name is paul sanford and i'm a greater greater floral park resident in councilwoman Jesse Lopez's Ward three I am CEO and asset manager of wincombe hospitality and wincombe management and development I'm here tonight to include my request at the last city council meeting and I urge you to set hearings and approve the related Bristol project on Bristol Street in South Santa Ana as many have spoken tonight the 41 acre redevelopment project will generate 500 million a new revenue to the city in the

first 30 years of operation and it will create over 7,500 new construction and permanent jobs my request again as others as mentioned is to set a formal hearing from this project as soon as possible as a resident and yes I'm speaking as a resident I feel it is imperative that the city leaders prioritize related Bristol my business is real estate and I know how firsthand that without a development agreement that reflects existing market conditions and realities and the need of flexibility it is impossible secure secure financing or do any long-term market project of this scale, and therefore the project

stands to fail if that is not done. The eyes of the entire community are fixed on Santa Ana at this point, awaiting a decision, a decision that will demonstrate the city's readiness for this caliber of private investment and to take the city to the next level with additional tax income that we so desperately need. I urge you as a resident who cares about the city to not let Bristol related slip away for the reasons others have mentioned and now I'd like to go on to just a couple more points I really want to thank the parks department I'm up in Fisher Park they've done a superb job over the past two years I think anybody

who lives up in that area has seen the improvements not only in the safety but in the cleanliness and the maintenance of the park it's a very visual park we have residents throughout Santa Ana that use it and I want to commend the efforts there I do have one ask as a Fisher Park Greater Floral Park resident the corner of memory Lane and flower is getting out of control again we used to have police up there on a regular basis from 730 or 7 730 in the morning to 9 a.m. they're not there they haven't been there for ages and we have cars speeding by they're not stopping anymore they're going through the i-5 interchange 22 i5

interchange and they're using that as a shortcut I live on River Lane and I have have to pull out every morning and I've got a car with a big engine and it takes every bit for me to get out there safety and it's getting worse so if I could please beg that the Santa Ana Police Department who by the way does a great job gets back on that corner please as they used to and starts getting it under control it is dangerous it is bad and we're going to have a situation finally thank you all very much for your consideration Karen Perez and Victor

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

Victor Mendez.

Hello, all. My name is Karen Perez. I am here today representing many soccer leagues here in Santa Ana, United Latin being one of them. We have been attending these meetings every two weeks, expressing many frustrations we have had and continue to have. Mayor, I have contacted your office over a year ago trying to solve some issues and still have not heard back. I would like to be given the time to be able to bring to light many issues we have encountered. I want to make it clear that the comment that was made about soccer being a mafia

has impacted our businesses in a very negative way. I'd like the person that made that comment to know that he has caused damage to the individuals that have worked hard to become business owners here in Santa Ana. I would like to thank Councilwoman Jessie Lopez for taking the time to meet with us once in the past. I will continue to attend these meetings until we are heard by all of you. I would like to request a meeting with all of you. I have left my cell phone number, my email, and the little green card that I was handed. Feel free to contact me. I'd like to solve these problems in a private manner with all of you guys.

we've been here multiple times. Just a quick background, my father here sitting there started his business over 35 years ago. He is not part of the Mafia. We are here trying to make a living. We have had many issues. We continue to come every two weeks. I don't understand why we have to keep coming to solve these issues and to keep expressing them out here when we can have a private meeting i would like for you guys to open up your agendas and reach out to all of us and say hey we're here let me listen to you that's

all we're asking for we're not a mafia that's not what we are all of this is impacting the community right of course yes we are a business but we do a lot for the community too i would like for you guys to keep that in mind thank you

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

»» Victor Mendez.

»» What that gentleman said about code enforcement, I want to echo. Thank you, Mayor. Our code enforcement got our elevator back after six weeks, and it would have happened without code enforcement. Sad, but true. It could have happened. I don't know if it's going to change the property manager's attitude, but at least we've got a functional elevator now. And senior citizens who are disabled now have access to that elevator. So thank you, and thank code enforcement. I want to just have a few general comments today. Typically you hear about people that they can't make a difference.

If they go to council, they say something, nothing will happen. I want to just provide three examples and something that I said did happen. happened. Two years ago, I asked that the MET be abolished. Today, it's being abolished. Last year, I pointed out the financial flaws of the Anamark prison food or jail food contract, and today I think they've corrected that contract to an appropriate basis where the dollars won't cost us much, although we still are going to be spending more than we should be spending. Nonetheless, that flaw in that contract has been corrected. Last year, I also questioned

this prepayment by the calvers annual contribution uh today the staff has reported that they do do a prepayment but they do it at a discount level meaning it makes a lot of sense so citizens speak up let them know what you hear and maybe change won't happen immediately but i think it can happen and some of this doesn't always happen but if you're about 60 60 if you're batting 600 with council you're doing pretty well so keep at it uh on item number 11 the contract manager the city City manager contracts have about 12.4 to date of spending. There's a lot of stuff in there, and there's a lot of good things in there.

I don't want to discount it. There's grants. There's donations. There's lighting. It's a very good thing. But there's some things that are just very peculiar to me. Why do we need $50,000 for employee yoga when we have these soccer fields that aren't being met? I mean, we're in an era of limits, and I think that's something that can be looked at. It's water under the bridge.

Evidently, SAPD needs $49,000 to help communicate better. I think they got enough people in there that can tell you how they should be communicating, and certainly the council and the staff here can help in that regard. I think it's $49,000 we may not need. All this is very well intended, but there's a lot of members of the community who are looking for some help in the arts, soccer, whatever. Let's just try to do better, look for better ways to serve the community, and spend that money a little bit better, and certainly challenge those monies as they're being asked for and

appropriated on the issue of council a contract i think the easiest solution is just go to as need hourly employee i think you're asking for a lot of work in these contracts give us some thought and item 41 i'm just not sure what the intention is fees and taxes are entirely different revenue streams i'm just not clear what we're trying to achieve here and because we're talking about cigarette butt removal i thought we were talking about sidewalk repair i'm behind this i'd be interested in finding out but let's have some clarity as to what you want to do and how you

want to fund it and we can all kind of get behind it or not get behind it thank you

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

mayor and city council that concludes the public speakers that are present we'll now take the zoom caller there is one zoom caller in the queue

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

caller whose phone number ends in one one one please unmute by dialing star six or selecting the microphone icon. Yes, go ahead please. Yeah, hello. Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. Please go ahead.

Okay, thank you. This is Paul Sherez. I'm in Ward 5 and I'm just calling about the mural on Washington and Custard over there to keep the wall, the mural wall. It's ironic that I'm going to talk fast because I don't have that much time. I went to a memorial day to Fairhaven, but I stopped by Chiquita because the artist was there. He was there with his camera crew and another guy, and I asked him, hey, are you going to paint my father's name, Tom Charest? He goes, yes. So I was at that elated. But I couldn't stay because I wanted to go join the Fairhaven celebration.

While I came back, he was gone and nothing was done. So I don't know if it was just a PR stunt or what's going on. But my question is for Alvarado Nunez, if he's looked into it, where they at, is there still a lot of red tape? Is there any council people are interested in looking into it or is the ball bouncing back at city council? So, yeah, it is a question. So that's where I'm at.

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

Thank you.

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

Mayor and City Council, that concludes the speakers that were in the queue when we started public comments.

Alvaro NuñezItem 3

Thank you. Before I move to the consent calendar, Madam City Attorney, you needed to share something?

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 3

Yeah. Mayor and Council members, members of the public, I was really hoping that the speakers who came to speak about related Bristol might still be here to hear these comments. If they're not, hopefully someone will make sure they get this message. We, under the Brown Act, can respond to comments if it's very brief, and I just wanted to give you a really brief update. Some of the speakers tonight commented on this project, and some seem to be insinuating that the hearings have not been scheduled because we, the city, are delaying scheduling those hearings. And that's just not the case.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 3

The project application for this project is complete and can be immediately scheduled at the applicant's request. What's at issue here is that the applicant has applied for a development agreement, which is a negotiated agreement and with the development agreement for this particular project the developer will be reducing its obligation towards affordable housing payments from fifteen dollars a square foot to five dollars a square foot pursuant to our existing ordinance this results in a difference of about between 56 million dollars and 18 million dollars so the city is

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 3

negotiating for additional city benefits we've been working very closely with the ad hoc committee committee, and that process has taken a while. We are actually down to a few remaining issues now, and we're waiting for the developers' representatives to schedule a meeting with us. But we just want to make clear that this project can proceed without a development agreement, and it can have some of those benefits that have been discussed. So we have given the developer the option of moving forward with their application if they want, or continuing to work with us on the development agreement.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 3

So I just want to make sure that everyone has that information and has all the facts.

Alvaro NuñezItem 3

Thank you, Madam City Attorney. We're going to go to the consent calendar items at this time, 4 through 36 are before us. Councilmembers, please announce any items you'll be abstaining from due to conflict. If there are any requests to pull an item, let's go down to Councilman Hernandez.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 3

Thank you, Madam Mayor. I'd like to pull item 21 and then just a comment on item 28.

Phil BacerraItem 3

Thank you. Councilman Becerra. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I'd like to pull items 21, 27, and 32.

Alvaro NuñezItem 3

Thank you. Councilmember Penalosa.

David PenalozaItem 3

Thank you, Mayor. I would also like to pull items 21 and item 25. Thank you, Council. And I have a comment on 13.

Alvaro NuñezItem 3

Okay. Thank you, sir. Councilmember Lopez.

Jessie LopezItem 3

Give me one second. I'm looking for my note.

Alvaro NuñezItem 3

Councilmember Vasquez.

Phil BacerraItem 3

Oh, the council. I'm sorry. 21 and 28.

Alvaro NuñezItem 3

21 and 28. Thank you. Mayor Pro Tem.

Thai Viet PhanItem 3

Mayor, nothing to pull, but I will recuse myself from item number 27, as the cities of Anaheim and Fullerton are clients of my employer, Retan and Tucker, so if that item is pulled, I will leave the dais. Thank you.

Alvaro NuñezItem 3

Thank you. Back to Council Member Lopez. No items to pull.

Jessie LopezItem 3

Thank you.

Thai Viet PhanItem 3

Thank you.

Alvaro NuñezItem 3

At this time, if you would indulge me, I'd like to go to the business calendar.

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

Mayor, if we could have a motion.

Alvaro NuñezItem 3

I'll make a motion to approve the balance. I'm sorry, hold on, yes. Second.

Alvaro NuñezItem 3

Thank you, Madam Clerk, for stepping in for that. Let's prepare to vote. Are machines working?

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

Yes, I'm getting them ready right now.

Alvaro NuñezItem 3

We're going to give it a shot. At the beginning of the meeting, they said they were not working, so let's give it a shot.

Jennifer L. HallItem 3

The motion by Councilmember Penaloza, seconded by Councilmember Becerra, to approve consent calendar items 4 through 36 with the exceptions of items 21 25 27 28 and 32 and a noted recusal that item has been pulled councilmember Hernandez but as seven eyes no nays motion carries on the consent calendar thank you so if

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

If we can...

David PenalozaItem 4

Point of order, Mayor?

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Yes.

David PenalozaItem 4

And I guess the city attorney might want to chime in. If we approved item 13 and I just had a comment on it, would we save that for later or would we do that now if it was approved?

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

We could. I was going to have somebody sworn in first.

David PenalozaItem 4

Okay, that's fine.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Okay. Thank you. Madam Clerk, is Mercy Benitez here?

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Mercy? Come on up, Mercy. We're going to swear Mercy in as a youth commissioner. Congratulations.

Hi Mercy. Mercy Benitez, do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the United States of California against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and I will bear truth, faith, and allegiance to the Constitution of the United States and the Constitution of the United States of California that I take this obligation freely without any mental reservation or

purpose of ovation that I will wear and faithfully in the Church the duties upon I'M ABOUT TO ENTER.

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

THANK YOU.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

GREAT. CONGRATULATIONS AT THIS TIME FOR ITEM 13. THERE'S JUST A COMMENT FOR ITEM 13 AND ITEM 13 AT THIS POINT. THANK YOU. GO AHEAD, CAPTAIN FENOLOVSKY.

David PenalozaItem 4

THANK YOU, MAYOR. THE ONLY COMMENT I HAD ON NUMBER 13, AND CITY CLERK, YOU MIGHT WANT TO GIVE SOME CLARITY ON THIS. There was a, we were asked to appropriate $617,000 and $800 for, that was left over from the special election that we had in November.

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

Yes, Council Member Penalosa and Mayor and Council. So the budget that was approved last year for the city, for the recall special elections was originally budgeted at a million dollars based on the initial estimate we received from the Orange County Registrar of Voters. That was contingent upon doing four separate special elections. The end of the year, we only conducted one special election, and the actual cost for that special election came in at around $300 and some odd thousand dollars. So the finance director and the city management team requested that I relinquish that money back over to the general fund for other purposes.

David PenalozaItem 4

Okay. The only reason why I'm asking for clarity is because in January you sent us an email stating that the final amount billed by the ROV was $359,200 and change. change, but when I subtracted the two amounts that it actually cost per this item and your email of the reflected bill, we had an outstanding balance of like $23,000. So I wanted to see where that $23,000 was at or if it was absorbed somewhere else.

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

So $23,000 that...

David PenalozaItem 4

So in January you sent us an email with the final bill from the ROV. Correct. And that was $359,200. Okay. And per this staff report, it's stating that the special election actually cost $382,000. So there's a difference of about $23,000. Okay. My question is that $23,000, is that an error or was that placed somewhere else for now?

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

I would have to go back and look at the specific dollar figures on that just to confirm, but it could have been the cost of the signature verifications that we did and a separate invoice. So it wasn't billed altogether? No, the signature verification was billed initially and then the actual conducting of the election was billed separately.

David PenalozaItem 4

yeah if we could just get an email on that because it's 23 grand that i can't account for and and it's not doesn't match up with either numbers so i want to make sure it's 23 000 that we could use towards art or to fund the art block so it i mean it's it's a good amount of money that's not accounted for at least with these notes so if you could do that clerk that i appreciate it sure thank you Thank you. That's it, Mayor.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Thank you. At this time, if you would indulge me, we're going to move over to the business calendar, item number 37, related to rescheduling of the June 18, 2024 regular city council meeting. Madam City Clerk, I believe that you had sent out an email asking for a date for a meeting due to the fact that we will not be able to meet on June 18.

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

Yes, Mayor. Thank you. you so staff became aware that it looked likely that there would not be a quorum of the body in attendance here in the council chamber on june 18th accordingly you have a few options that you can do regarding that meeting you can adopt the first resolution that's presented to you which would be to cancel the june 18th meeting you could adopt the second resolution that is presented to you which would reschedule that June 18th meeting to a different date or if you take no action the June 18th meeting would stay on the books there would be an agenda and then depending on the

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

attendance that comes if a quorum is here the meeting could proceed if there is not a quorum then it would be cancelled at that time by staff I'd like to make a motion that we schedule the

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

meeting for June 24th it's a Monday at regular time I'll second that thank you mayor mayor pro tem there are no comments actually I can't do that yeah I

David PenalozaItem 4

can't I can't either how about Tuesday that I can't I can't either oh I have work I I will make a motion to just cancel the June 18th meeting all together and then just come back to the meeting schedule in July the only reason

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

I'm trying to get a meeting is is because we're not going to be meeting again until July 16th 16th and so if we think we have a big agenda tonight we're gonna even have a bigger agenda then so I'm just trying to fit something in if you guys want to pick a day if not if the majority wants to go with July about

Phil BacerraItem 4

How about June 26th, Wednesday?

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

I have work.

Jessie LopezItem 4

Jennifer, I thought you emailed all of us asking for dates. I know I responded.

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

Yes, I did send an email seeking dates for that following week of June 4th to June 28th for availability. I heard from four council members and did not receive a quorum for any of the dates that were listed.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Is Friday the 28th work for everybody? Councilman Hernandez, you wanted to make a comment.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

Yes, Madam Mayor. I just wanted to ask my colleagues, are there any colleagues who will be present for June 18th?

Jessie LopezItem 4

Yes. I'm not going to Vegas, so I'll be here.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

You'll be here? Yes. Okay. Anyone else? So there's three of us. In the spirit of moving business forward, I'm happy to delay my flight out to the Naleo Conference and stay for June 18th so that we can conduct the city's business.

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

THAT WOULD BE AN OPTION FOR YOU ALL. IF WE HAVE FOUR MEMBERS WITHIN THE CITY'S JURISDICTION, WE CAN PROCEED WITH THE MEETING AND THAT WOULD ALLOW FOR THE ABILITY TO TELECONFERENCE FOR THE REMAINING THREE MEMBERS WHO WERE AT THE NELAO CONFERENCE, IF THEY WOULD SO CHOOSE.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

I'LL MAKE A MOTION. I'LL HAPPILY MAKE THAT COMPROMISE AND STAY BEHIND SO THAT WE DON'T get behind on city business i'll make a motion for june 18th if there's i don't think any interest

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

from my colleagues i don't think we need one do we you know no we don't if you if there's going to be four of you here for a quorum then according i believe what you told me then we can zoom in the

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

rest correct if we have that confirmation of four for a quorum then then no further action is

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

required the rest of us will be zooming in or those of us and others who would want to participate by

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 4

teleconference would just need to tell us where they're located um and we would need to do that

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

posting on our agenda before perfect obviously madam clerk from my hotel perfect go ahead mayor

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

patron i mean i did want to just also offer up july june 27th that is the date of the state of the city so i presume many people will be there during the day maybe be available in the afternoon i mean we pay to go these conferences i can't either how about we just if yeah if we can't

Jessie LopezItem 4

I THINK AT QUORUM I WOULD SUPPORT COUNCILMEMBER PENALES'S MOTION.

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

THAT'S FINE. I WAS JUST TRYING TO, YOU KNOW. SO RIGHT NOW, I THINK IT WAS COUNCILMEMBER HERNANDEZ. I HAVE HEARD THAT COUNCILMEMBER HERNANDEZ HAS STATED HE WOULD BE PRESENT ON JUNE 18TH AS WELL AS COUNCILMEMBERS Becerra, COUNCILMEMBER LOPEZ, AND MAYOR POTEMPHAN. HERE IN THE COUNCIL CHAMBER.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

THAT'S CORRECT. AND I'LL BE ZOOMING IN, MADAM CITY ATTORNEY.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 4

WILL ANYBODY ELSE BE ZOOMING IN? YEAH.

David PenalozaItem 4

I'LL BE TELECONFERENCING IN.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 4

Okay. Some of our actions may require supermajority vote. That's why I was asking we'll need more than four votes. And that's why we'll need others to participate by teleconference.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Can we just not put anything on the agenda that needs the five votes?

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

As long as you're participating in the meeting, it's sufficient. All right. Are we good with that?

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

Madam Mayor?

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

Yes, go ahead.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

Thank you madam. Just a clarifying question. So does that mean that business that would have been pushed out We're gonna keep our business on calendar for June 18th. Okay, so in the spirit of ensuring that we stay on schedule Because moving things forward can impact our city adversely We have a motion and a second on the floor. It looks like right

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

Thank you so much

David PenalozaItem 4

all right and mayor i just need clarity that this city agenda tonight is loaded because staff anticipated the next meeting being canceled correct that's what i was told by city staff so

anything pressing we're addressing tonight yes given that we have quite a bit of of issues right so in anticipation we were a little bit prepared that is correct okay um to the extent THAT WE FOCUS ON KEY ITEMS, THE BUDGET BEING OF COURSE THE PRIMARY ONE, AND OTHER ONES THAT NEED TO BE DISCUSSED TODAY LIKE THE COUNCIL AID AND OF COURSE THIS ONE WAS THE KEY PARAMOUNT FOR US. ANY OTHER ITEMS DEPENDING ON THE LENGTH OF THE TIME, WE CAN POSTPONE FOR THE NEXT

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

AGENDA. THAT IS WHY WE'RE GOING IN THE BUSINESS CALENDAR. PERFECT. SO, OKAY. LET'S GO TO ITEM NUMBER 38. AT THIS TIME, RESOLUTION OF THE CITY OF SAN ANA AUTHORIZING THE ISSUANCE AND SALE OF the water bond mr city manager i just said imagine

our finance executive director assist with that

all right uh good evening mayor and city council members thank you for hearing this item tonight the recommended uh action before you is to approve this resolution which authorizes the issuance and sale of water revenue bonds this would be the City Council's final action to authorize the bonds Kim Byron's of best best and Krieger serving as our bond council is here this evening and can answer any specific questions about the legal authority to issue bonds the 2019 water rate study included recommendations

for water system capital improvements debt it should debt issuance to pay for them and rate increases to fund operations and debt repayment in january the city's water rate engineer updated its recommendation to issue debt for cash capital projects with the early direction budget report in march staff reported plans for the upcoming debt issue in april city council approved the bond council agreement with best best and krieger and in may city council approved formation of a new public financing authority to issue the bonds. The public financing authority agenda tonight includes

a companion to this item.

We're proposing to sell bonds with a face value of up to $47 million at a premium to finance $40 million of capital projects and repay the outstanding 2014 water bonds. Proceeds would also pay for the cost of issuance. Our latest estimate is a par value of $44 million or face value with a premium of $5 million which would be the $49 million that we need for the spending plan. Expected terms include a 25-year fixed rate amortization with a true interest cost of approximately 4.16%.

This is a summary of the $40 million of improvements to be financed. $15 million would be used to complete the advanced water meter project. $10 million would be used to improve two different pump stations. And the remainder would be used for vault, meter apparatus, well, and electrical improvements. Bond proceeds should be used within three years. So we have a commitment timeline on this slide.

The recommendation tonight does not include a water rate increase. However, to be completely transparent, the City will likely need to approve rate increases in the future to ensure the water enterprise maintains sufficient revenue for both operations and debt payments. Our latest calculations indicate that we may need 3.5% annual increases in future years. The City's average water bill by month is fairly low compared to other jurisdictions. The monthly impact of future increases to the average water bill may be approximately $4, as seen on the right-hand side of this slide.

We will know more about future recommended rates when the City's rate consultant completes the next water rate study in 2025.

The resolution before you would approve each of these seven documents, which have been reviewed by the bond financing team, including myself and our assistant finance director, Cesar Barrera, our deputy public works director and water resources manager, Armando Fernandez, our principal civil engineer for water resources, the city's financial advisor, Urban Futures, are Bond Council, Best Best and Krieger, the underwriter, Ramirez and Company, and the underwriter's council, Stradling Law. The master installment purchase agreement, this is where the

public financing authority agrees to sell bonds and the city agrees to purchase completed capital improvements with installment payments. Then the first supplement to that agreement creates the obligation and assigns the public financing authority rights to collect installment payments and duties to make those bond payments to the trustee. The escrow agreement would facilitate payment of the 2014 bonds. The bond purchase agreement is with the underwriter to negotiate the sale of the bonds. The indenture of trust sets the terms, covenants, and provisions of the bonds.

The preliminary official statement is to be distributed to prospective purchasers containing all material facts for making an investment decision. decision, and then the continuing disclosure certificate committing the city to provide annual reports and notices to investors.

I'm sorry. Here we go. Last week, we made a presentation to S&P to obtain a credit rating. We actually received the draft credit rating report this afternoon, reaffirming our AA rating. S&P cited our highly rated water system and strong financial management. Tomorrow we expect to post the offering document for prospective investors if the City Council approves this item, and our plan is to sell the bonds on June 11th. This concludes my prepared presentation, and we're ready to answer questions.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Thank you very much. Appreciate it. If you'd like to speak, please lift your mic unless – Madam Clerk, are they working? Are tablets here?

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

Unfortunately, no, the request to speak button is not yet working. So if you could use your microphones.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Lift your mic, please. Remember, we're going to do three minutes, three rounds throughout the entire meeting. Does anybody have any comments or questions? Mayor Prochaz?

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

Thank you so much, Mayor. I think this might be directed toward our Director Saba or Deputy Director Barrera. You know, when we look at these numbers, they're quite large, right? and no one wants to issue any debt or have any bonds, but can you explain to the public what happens if we don't approve this? What happens if we don't issue these bonds?

Good evening, Mayor, Mayor Patel, Council. Thank you for the question. A couple of challenges we see. Cesar Vera, Deputy Director of Port Works, overseeing water resources. The biggest challenge we see right now is financing the $15 million for AMI finalizing. On 2019, we did have an approved five-year rate study. And in there, year three, we were supposed to go and capture those $15 million for that rate bond. That's one example of the challenges we'll face going forward on how to fund the additional $15 million to finish that project.

We currently are roughly 45% completed with AMI. We need to finish up the remaining meters that we have outstanding. We've done 17,000 smart meter installs as of today. So a lot of the cost has been done, but we still have to capture that. What would also happen is additional CIP projects can be delayed. Another challenge I see forecast right now is our PFAS treatment upgrades. Orange County Water District is paying for the majority of that, of those installations for treatment headworks for these facilities.

They've already expensed up to $70 million of projects as of today. They've already constructed one facility. That's at Well 40 in Mayberry Park. But what the challenge with that is they don't pay for 100% of the treatment headworks. There's ancillary equipment that needs to be upgraded that's adjacent to the actual treatment of the vessels and what have you, treatment vessels, that's not included in the cost. As of right now, we have Walnut Pump Station that needs upgrading for PFAS and Garthy Pump Station.

These are centralized locations. We're running up to five wells in one location to treat for PFAS. So that's going to be a challenge of where we find funds to address the equipment upgrades around the actual treatment that's not included per Orange County Water District.

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

Thank you so much. And I ask because I serve on the Metropolitan Water District Board. That's imported water. That water costs more money than our own groundwater. And our own groundwater is better than the imported water. with you know I I don't think you know we're so used to just turning on the faucet and expecting clean water but what we know even in the United States of America is that that's not a guarantee we do not want to be the next Flint Michigan we do not want to be the next Flint Michigan and so while we may not want to do this we have to because right now PFAS is affecting essentially

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

essentially everything in the city except the west side. So, you know, and what we expect is that it may expand. And so I think that you've done a great job working with OCWD. Our department has done a great job working with OCWD to address this. And I really appreciate you answering this question because sometimes it's just numbers, but it's not. It's directly affecting the health of every single person and every business that's in this city. Thank you. That's all my questions. Thank you.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Mayor Pro Tem. Councillor Becerra, is that your mic up? No, okay. No other comments at this time. Cesar, thank you very much. As Mayor Pro Tem had indicated, she sits on one water board, I sit on the other, and so I understand very clearly how important it is. You know, it's exactly what you said. When you turn your tap on or your shower, you want to have, you just expect it, but there's work behind it. It doesn't just appear. There's magic that you all do in the water department here in our city so and throughout the entire country so thank you with that i'd like to make a motion i'll second thank you it's your part of vote

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

a motion by mayor mesqua seconded by mayor pro tem fan to approve a resolution of the city council of the city of santa ana authorizing the execution and delivery by the city of a master installment purchase agreement a first supplement to master installment purchase agreement an escrow agreement a continuing disclosure certificate and a purchase contract in connection with issuance of Santa Ana Public Financing Authority Water Revenue Bonds Series 2024, approving the issuance of such bonds in an aggregate principal amount of not to exceed $47 million,

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

authorizing the distribution of an official statement in connection with the offering and sale of such bonds, and authorizing the execution of necessary documents and certificates and related actions.

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

And great job on our rating. I really appreciate that.

David PenalozaItem 4

Mayor.

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

Yes, Council Member.

David PenalozaItem 4

I just quick point of clarification if Catherine might want to answer this. I know that in slide six you mentioned the potential future increases for 25, 26, 27, 28. Are any of those increases, and I just wanted to make sure to not confuse the public that's watching, none of those increases are being approved or done tonight?

That is correct. There is no approval of any rate increases tonight. The City Council will need to see its 2025 rate study and then make decisions about the future after seeing that rate study.

David PenalozaItem 4

Perfect. Thank you.

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

Vote is 7 ayes, no nays. Motion carries.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Thank you. On to item 39, related to the local resident preference and affordable housing. Mr. City Manager, can we have a report, please? And I am so happy to see this item.

Thank you. Executive Director Mike Garcia will do the presentation for us.

Mayor, Mayor Pertem, City Council, we're happy to have this item in front of you for your consideration tonight. tonight. Our housing manager is here, Judson Brown, who worked very closely with the city attorney staff to make sure that the city's policy for local preference is in alignment with the state policy and that there are no conflicts. The item before you tonight will accomplish that and we're ready for any questions you may have.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Ms. Garcia, thank you so much. I just have a comment I really like. Thank you for the information you shared and the work that you guys are doing here. So I'm looking at the waiting list and it says applicants with local residents local resident preference at crossroads 1167 at rafferty 2472 archways 3991 i mean we know there's a need but local residents are getting a preference and i really appreciate that so any other comments by any other council members councilman is that your micah no i'm sorry councilman hernandez go ahead thank you madam

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

mayor just want to thank our staff for the report um and i support uh the local resident preference

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

thank you thank you there are no other comments may have a motion please make a motion to move the item i'll second i should move by council hernandez

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

okay prepare to vote motion by council member hernandez seconded by mayor pro tem fan to introduce the first reading of the local resident preference and affordable housing housing ordinance with associated CEQA action.

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

Council member Hernandez.

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

Voters seven ayes, no nays, motion carries, ordinance is introduced.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Thank you, Madam City Clerk. At this time, we're gonna end the business calendar and we're gonna go to the public hearing, which is the item number 40, the budget. Madam City Clerk, you want to please provide instructions to the public who'd like to make a comment on this item.

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

Thank you. Members of the public joining us by way of Zoom or conference call who would like to make a comment for Public Hearing Item Number 40 only, the proposed budget, please dial star nine from your phone or select raise hand from zoom now

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

we have no comments man of center court oh i'm sorry mayor i just thought you were going to do staff presentation first before opening the public hearing here we go you're up it's dr city manager

kathleen don'ts

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

before she starts are there any comments

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

mary yes we have one card and two on zoom perfect thank you

okay uh honorable mayor and council members the city manager's proposed budget is before you this evening the recommended actions this evening include approve the first reading of the budget ordinance supported by the detailed proposed document budget document adopt the employee classification and compensation resolution for 2425 which creates new employee classifications updates others and establishes a 2425 salary schedule based on the negotiated MOUs with the employee bargaining groups adopt the uniform schedule of miscellaneous fees resolution

supported by the detailed proposed fee schedule and adopt the seven-year capital improvement program with year one being the proposed 2425 budget for capital improvements the full document was attached to this agenda item i do have one minor correction to the detailed proposed budget document on pages 183 and 184 the police department staffing table was not updated to reflect the proposed budget however the budget dollars in the proposed document and the proposed budget ordinance are correct the final budget document will correct will reflect the correct staffing table first

I would like to provide a high-level overview of the budget for the public staff has made some updates to the proposed budget based on City Council direction from April 2nd and May 16th. The city's charter requires the city manager to propose a budget for the City Council considering during a public hearing which is this agenda item. If City Council approves the recommendations the ordinance will return to City Council at your next regular meeting to be considered for adoption. The city's charter requires the City Council to adopt an annual budget by July 31. The General Fund is the primary operating fund of

the City and accounts for the City's unrestricted revenues. The proposed recurring budget is balanced. The City Council's policy reserve level of 18 percent of recurring annual revenue will be maintained, which is calculated to be 73 million dollars. We expect overall revenue will increase by 2.2% and the proposed budget for recurring expenditures is 3.6% more than the current fiscal year. The proposed general fund budget also includes a 10.5 million dollar contribution to the 115 trust for pension debt stabilization.

This is a very high level snapshot of the proposed citywide spending budget. budget, 56% or $408 million is accounted for in the general fund. $114 million of restricted money is accounted for in special revenue funds such as housing. $55 million in other restricted funds such as gas tax and successor agency debt payments. $128 million in enterprise funds such as water, sewer, and refuse collection. section, and the remainder in capital funds, primarily for roadway improvements. Taking a closer look at the general fund, we see that 36% of the revenue comes from

sales taxes in the green areas for Bradley Burns and Measure X. Twenty-three percent comes from property taxes in the gray area. Another 17% comes from other taxes, including utility users tax, hotel visitors tax, and business taxes. The remainder comes from charges for services, franchise fees, jail revenue, fines, investment earnings, and other miscellaneous income.

The total spending plan for the general fund is approximately $2 million more than the revenue. However, that includes nearly $13 million of one-time spending from the available general fund balance in excess of the $73 million dollar reserve. Public safety first responders including police, fire, and ambulance comprise 54% of the general fund spending plan. Each frontline service department is included in this pie chart including planning and building, community development, parks, recreation, and community services, public works, and library. For purposes of

presentation i combined the budgets for city manager's office city attorney's office clerk of the council finance and human resources into a single administration category the other category includes the 9.4 million dollars of cannabis business tax set aside for youth and enforcement debt service payments museum building maintenance various subsidies for internal service and enterprise funds and project transfers next i will cover the changes to the proposed budget after receiving City Council direction on May 16th. Although it is not part of the proposed 24-25 budget, the third quarter budget report on this agenda

tonight included a recommended four million dollar budget for the dog park which City Council approved with the consent portion of the agenda. The Winter Village was eliminated from proposed city events and funding was redistributed to arts and expanding senior programs we removed the addition of the assistant fleet services technician to help maintain a balanced budget the police met program expenditures were reallocated to other police programs and we reduced the funded police officer count by two based on the county's cancellation of the civic center security mou which funded seven police

officer positions. I would also like to acknowledge that the Water Tower Viewing Platform Engineering Feasibility Study was included in the current year budget with expected completion in September of this year and that the proposed budget includes a $50,000 allocation for the Economic Feasibility Study in the Public Works General Fund budget. This is a quick summary of the proposed spending spending plan for the arts funding reallocated from the Winter Village. Half would be spent for an Arts in Public Places program. $50,000 would be spent to update the Arts Master Plan.

And the remaining $10,000 would be used to purchase materials for anti-graffiti coating.

This is a recap of new and expanded initiatives for Fiscal Year 24-25. Some of these items were included in the May 16th version of the draft budget, but we wanted to recap for benefit of the public. In the general fund, the proposed budget would add economic development staff to support the business community, more money for zoo operations and maintenance related to new animals and exhibits, increased bus stop maintenance, expanded senior services programming, the the arts funding we just reviewed in the previous slide, and a dedicated budget for pothole repair. In the Cannabis Public Benefit Fund,

the proposed budget would add more teen excursions, protective flooring for the Salgado Gym, children's zoo funding, and youth camp operations.

The proposed budget includes a downtown parking enterprise subsidy of more than 1.6 million to provide free one-hour parking parking on evenings and weekends. During the May 16th budget work session, some council members expressed interest in providing free parking on Sundays and Art Walk Day, so we did a calculation. If the City Council were to direct staff to provide the alternative instead of one hour free parking, there would be a $1.2 million savings in the general fund. fund.

This is a summary of the proposed city event budget that does not include Winter Village.

This is an updated version of the 10-year general fund outlook. This outlook includes recurring amounts only, future debt payoffs, the Measure X rate decrease in 2029, and inflationary increases for the future. It also includes contributions to and uses of the pension stabilization account to smooth pension debt fluctuations. I would like to note that yesterday I received an update from the Orange County Fire Authority.

The contract increase will be only 4.06%, not the 4.5%, which saves $212,000 in the proposed general fund budget that is not reflected in your agenda item. The outlook reaffirms our knowledge that expenditures are increasing faster than our revenues and that changes will be needed to maintain a balanced budget in the future.

The City Council is aware that we have a looming deadline to spend federal dollars from the American Rescue Plan Act. The City received $128 million of this federal funding. To date, the City has spent and or obligated 85 million of that. The city's internal deadline to commit to allocations, timelines, and procurements is the end of this month, June 30th, in plenty of time to meet the federal deadline of December 31st to obligate funds. After funds are obligated, they must be spent by the end of 2026. This money is highly restricted and staff is carefully reviewing each

project to ensure eligibility.

The proposed capital improvement program includes new funding available to continue ongoing efforts for street, traffic, facility, and park improvements. The new funding totals more than $36 million. Although it is difficult to see on this slide, this map will appear in the CIP document and identifies the locations of projects. They are the small titles highlighted in yellow distributed throughout the city.

Notable CIP projects include Safe Routes to Schools for $4.7 million, Bike Lane Projects for $3.4 million, Traffic Signals at Two Locations for $1.3 million, Logan-Chepas Park Redesign for a million Bristol Street rehab completion for six hundred and eighty thousand that was the final final piece of funding and then outdoor library at Jerome Park another four hundred and fifty thousand dollars of funding so at this point I'd like to take a pause in the presentation the remaining 74 slides

include department specific summaries highlights and goals so we can either end the presentation here and move on to City Council questions and discussion or

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

we can keep going is there a preference I think we're ready for questions unless you want to sit here for how many pages one 74 so we all received the budget I'm assuming we all look at it so I have questions I sure I would suggest that we

David PenalozaItem 4

We take these questions for what we've seen already, and then the following slides are still presented for the public's viewing.

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

I'd support that.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

I'm not quite sure I do.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

How many slides did you say? 74. 74 more slides. Let's see how many questions we have first, Councilman Pennells. How about we do that? Okay. Because we may be sitting here for two hours with just the questions that we have. So I know I have questions I'm sure a lot of people do up here so a lot of council members do. All right so let's start with questions three minutes three rounds. I'd ask somebody to keep track but I'll keep track here. All right let's start. Who's first? Please raise your mic if you'd like questions or comments.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

Councilman Hernandez I see your mic there. Madam Mayor thank you very much. Thank you, Catherine Downs, for a fantastic presentation today. I greatly appreciate it. I wanted to touch base with my colleagues on a couple of concerns. For one, I'm very supportive of the majority of items that you've put in front of us today. I just wanted to ask a clarifying question because I didn't hear it today, but I'm sure it is included. But the feasibility study for the Washington Square Park, is that included in our budget?

Yes, sir, it is.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

Thank you, Catherine. And furthermore, I know that there were some concerns around the arts, and I do see an increase of $120,000. Is that correct?

That is correct, sir.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

And then an additional increase in senior services and programming. I'd like to thank my colleagues for their direction in increasing these areas of funding in two groups of funding where the arts is not something that we exclude our seniors from. I want to encourage more of our seniors to get engaged in the arts or to work with organizations that are doing arts Organizations like octak there are tremendous orgs in the community I just want to see the arts be more inclusive of our seniors But we did have an increase in in the area of arts of 120,000

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

We also had the increase in senior services programming. I'd like to see an increase in arts and culture I would not like to to see us terminate our relationship with the Bowers I'd like to see a strengthen it ways that I think we can strengthen it is for us to be more community and oriented for us to work closer together with them what I'd like to see done is for the funding to stay with the Bowers Museum but I would like to see us increase our arts funding I know we have an increase of 120,000 I'd like to see an additional 100,000 be moved from the Bowers it's not a significant amount it

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

still leaves a sizable investment in our partnership but to take $100,000 off that top to get us a little closer to our arts master plan I'd like to see that done I know I don't know if there's any funding available in the winter village

the so the winter village the original proposed was 240,000 so based on the City Council direction we removed that and split it the hundred and twenty plus the 120 for arts and senior programming the bowers museum the maintenance allocation that we have for that city-owned building is pursuant to an agreement so i'm not sure that we have i don't think we have the latitude to reduce that contribution we we can look into it but i I think that that's probably unlikely. Yeah, go ahead. Right.

And so that's one of the items that we'll probably discuss at the consent. But it's a contractual obligation, at least for two more years. Until 2026. So but in that sense, though, and without assigning any specific amount, we can have discussion with the borrower to try to include that separately. But as far as we have a very contract sign signed with contractor obligations, so we will not be able to do that at this point.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

Thank you for the clarification, City Manager Nunez. I also want to shed light on the cannabis fund. We presently have under $1 million going to the library from the cannabis fund. We have a little bit over $300,000 going to our library. So I'm going to cite Section 13-205 of the Santa Ana Municipal Code and it says per our ordinance we can suspend this ordinance by a two-thirds vote of the council. If the city council finds that there is a structural deficit then we are able to override that ordinance and add additional funding wherever we do see a

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

deficit. I want to raise awareness on my concerns on sidewalks. We pay out hundreds of thousands of dollars annually in lawsuits related to sidewalks and these are monies that we don't earmark in preparation of of potential lawsuits so what i would like to do is see an increase in public works i would like to see a one million dollar increase in sidewalks and that would be coming from our cannabis fund it would require two-thirds of the vote of this council i would like to see one million dollars be added to sidewalks coming from our police fund that we have in cannabis

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

i would also like to see a 600 000 increase go to our library so that we can get them to a point where they are receiving a robust amount of funding we presently have over three million dollars going to our police department where they're receiving over 160 million dollars in our general fund and so i would like to see more equity across our departments so that our police department our public works department and our library and code enforcement are all receiving equitable support from the cannabis fund and the last area of comments that i want to share

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

councilman hernandez can i come back to you sir there's three minutes three minutes absolutely madam thank you thank you okay who's next councilman becerra thank you mad mayor and thank

Phil BacerraItem 4

you uh catherine uh acting state manager nunez and everybody who helped put this uh together uh and all the work that you guys did to go out to the community and solicit input. So thank you for that. Every time we do the budget, I always like to read our mission statement because I think it's important to understand as we deliberate up here what it is that we're doing. And that is our mission is to deliver efficient public services in partnership with our community, which ensures public safety, a prosperous economic environment, opportunities for our youth, and a high quality of life for our residents.

Phil BacerraItem 4

So a fine example of that was the inclusion in this budget of the dedicated left turn signals at Sagersturm and Raitt and Sagersturm and Flowers. So I want to thank you for including those because those improvements will save lives. We need to look at growing revenue, that's for sure. And I want to thank staff for including the next phase of the observation deck around the iconic water tower to see the economic feasibility of that. I'm pretty sure it's going to come out the right way, but again, I appreciate the thoroughness in vetting it.

I

Phil BacerraItem 4

do not support what I just heard as far as the Bowers and any sort of shifting of funds as acting state manager said we do have an obligation. Also, too, I think one of the best rate of returns that we have in this city, I mean for what we give to Bowers and then what we receive in return is amazing. I mean, how many facilities do we fund that multiply themselves? themselves. There's not a building that I know of that we give money to and then all of a sudden it multiplies by three or four times its square feet. So I would say that's a pretty darn good investment there. And the prestige that Bowers brings to the city and

Phil BacerraItem 4

the attraction of folks from all around, I think it would be silly to even think about any sort of defunding of Bowers and our commitment to them. I would like to turn my attention now towards the CDA portion of the budget as it relates to downtown. So I'm going to start off with saying, you know, I grew up in our downtown. I love our downtown. I was a busboy at Pop's Cafe, a store or a restaurant that my uncle started. And I'm used to the urban environment of downtown. And so I'm also used to parking structures actually making a profit, not being upside down. And so I want to talk about the fact that, and Kat, correct me if I go

Phil BacerraItem 4

go wrong here. So our parking structures right now bring in $1.398 million in revenue, and yet we're paying $2.1 million to operate them. So we're at a deficit of $709,000. Is that correct?

Yes, that is correct. Do we owe anything on these structures as far as construction bonds or anything of that sort? No, there's no outstanding debt on the structures. Okay. And then on the

Phil BacerraItem 4

parking meters we bring in 1.7 million in revenue and yet our expenses are 1.864 million is that correct as well that's correct so we've had folks come in and talk about how the parking situation goes in downtown whether we should charge certain times give free periods during certain times we're talking about subsidizing this what i don't understand and this is something i would like to see brought back to the council in 60 days is i would finish up but then i'm going to move on okay so basically on this and i'll come back to this but i want to just say it i don't know anywhere

Phil BacerraItem 4

where parking structures and parking meters are upside down except for here and we are trying to fund certain things based on this parking revenue but we're paying more to collect parking fees and i don't think that that's something i think it's something we need to look further into but but I'll come back with my comments. Thank you, Mayor.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Three minutes, three rounds, please. Otherwise, we will be here for, I get it. If you want to be here, I'll have that.

Phil BacerraItem 4

Well, Madam Mayor, this is the budget. I think we need to take the time if necessary.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Then we'll take the three minutes off and everybody will have their turn. Sure. Okay, anybody else? Yes. Council Member Lofens.

Jessie LopezItem 4

Thank you.

Jessie LopezItem 4

So, staff,

Jessie LopezItem 4

thank you for the increase to the arts line item. I come through the budget and you I know that you you all know that I go through that but I was unclear from the from the increase if the The new dollar amount includes the cost of art walk and I do remember there being a majority of council members Supporting the event. I guess what a technical question is Did you get the the clarification clarification that you needed from the council in order for it to? be a city sponsored event which was one of the things that i supported

i would defer to mike garcia our community development agency director to indicate whether or not that arts funding budget includes anything for art walk thank you

Hello, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, Council. We currently work with the Frida Cinema operator, Logan Crow, and have a contract of about $150,000 per year for Art Walk operations, and it's included in this budget, the 2024-25.

Jessie LopezItem 4

So the, especially the budget that they sent us, you're saying that amount is included in the new increase for the art, for the light, for the art line item?

That's correct. And it's about close to $11,000 per month.

Jessie LopezItem 4

Okay. Thank you. I wanted that clarification. And then also under the PD, I did see and staff did confirm from the last conversation that the MET was, I guess in Victor's words, abolished within the department. And again, I was not part of those conversations. But since the $6 million allocation to the MET has been striked from the budget, can you clarify why the budget for PD increased?

The budget wasn't struck. It was reallocated to other programs. Right, but within the department, correct? Yes, within the department.

Jessie LopezItem 4

So my question is, why did it increase? Because the number is different than the last budget that we discussed.

You mean just for which?

Jessie LopezItem 4

The department as a whole?

Yeah, the department as a whole. Of course the cost would increase. You have increasing wages. You have increasing contracts. You have amounts that we added as part of the proposed budget. So, yes, it would increase.

Jessie LopezItem 4

Okay. Got it. Thank you. So contractual obligations. and even though there was a six million I would say well not really a savings right it wasn't enough to make it neutral thank you also I remember from our conversation last time that there was direction to remove at least two events but I did see that the event budget went up and maybe I might my my

memory is wrong uh the originally proposed uh event budget was 1.6 million so it went down to 1.3 something i must have read it wrong okay thank you i'll circle back my time is up

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

thank you but councilmember lopez councilmember vasquez yes thank you i want to thank the staff

Benjamin VazquezItem 4

for uh doing the heavy lifting and allocating the funds where we needed to be i know we're at the beginning of a cliff and uh i mean we've all been doing you all have been doing a great job of making sure this city is is ran as well as it can be we're going to see some loss coming next year but uh it's going to be a lot more difficult for us than moving to around a few dollars here but thank you for increasing the arts fund i appreciate the work and including uh the senior your fund. I just want to mention I was worried about the current parking in downtown and

Benjamin VazquezItem 4

you give us a choice between moving it from a one hour free to free parking on Sundays and Art Walk Day. And I just want to support our, those, all the businesses in downtown DOWNTOWN SUNDAY ANNA SHOULD HAVE SUPPORTED EQUALLY. WE SHOULD HAVE EQUITY AND THAT WE HAD AN ISSUE WHEN WE HAD DOWNTOWN INC. AND FOURTH STREET BUSINESS ASSOCIATION. AND THERE WAS TWO DIFFERENT GROUPS, RIGHT? THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO HELP OUT. SO I'M GOING TO GO FOR THE FIRST ONE WITH THE ONE HOUR

Benjamin VazquezItem 4

FREE PARKING TO MAKE SURE WE SUPPORT EVERYBODY.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

that's all I got for now thank you councilman Vasquez just for clarification you want free parking on Sunday's art walk and the one hour or just the one hour I just want to be clear what

just one hour okay thank you councilmember panelosa oh mayor councilman Vasquez can you repeat that again so uh well no that's that's what we're considering right my understanding from our OUR LAST CONSULTATION, I THINK THE EMAIL FROM OUR EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF FINANCE WAS, YOU KNOW, FREE SUNDAYS AND FREE ART WALK. SO IS THE ONE-HOUR PROPOSAL ONLY THE ONE-HOUR PROPOSAL, NO SUNDAY FREEZE AND NO ART WALK? OR IN ADDITION TO THE SUNDAYS, FREE SUNDAYS, FREE ART WALK, AN EXTRA HOUR?

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

THAT'S WHY I ASKED FOR CLARIFICATION. RIGHT. THANK YOU. BECAUSE I THINK AS A MAJORITY WE HAVE TO DECIDE IS IT ART WALK AND SUNDAYS OR IS IT JUST ONE HOUR? So what you're saying is you support the one hour, so let's see what the rest of the body says.

And so I say that in the spirit of obviously, you know, having a consensus on the budget consideration, but more to the original question Council Member Becerra offered regarding parking and meters and what that means.

Benjamin VazquezItem 4

I'd like to hear more about what he has to say about it, so we'll give him his time. Thank you.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Councilman Panela.

David PenalozaItem 4

Thank you, Mayor. I'm Esquire. So, the question I have is two pretty simple questions for staff. I just wanted clarity on what exactly are camp operations, as listed in the slide, for new expenses? And the amount of $40,000. dollars and the Bristol Street Rehab I see that we have six hundred and eighty thousand dollars proposed allocation for that and is that all that is needed for

that project to be completed yes the question was asked several months ago you know how much funding do we need to finish up that that phase of the project and Public Works responded with 680,000 so we found a way to get 680,000 in the budget so that they can finish that director Nabil Saba from Public Works could answer more detailed questions about that and then of course director Scott Hawk from Parks and Recreation can answer about the camp operations thank you for that and just quickly secret director Nabil so we clarify you know other way we say what is it completed in bristol because you say complete the whole bristol project

are we talking about a segment we're talking all the improvements on bristol street good evening mayor mayor council members um your question on the funding for the bristol widening from san andrew to um to warner we have right now 41 million dollars was allocated for that project. And according to my city engineer, we will be going out to bid later this year for that project. This addition of fund was to complement and add to that fund. We have $41 million for that project right now.

David PenalozaItem 4

Male Speaker 1 Okay. So all you need for the project to be completed is $680,000?

Male Speaker 2 Yes. That was the addition for this year. year in the CIP. Again, the capital improvement program that you have does not reflect back and accumulates all the funding that has been allocated to that project, but we do have $41 million for it right now.

David PenalozaItem 4

MR. Okay. Thank you for that, Director Saba. That's good to know that the residents that use Bristol Street, which is everybody in Orange County, will see that completed soon hopefully thank you and you said directors Scott will have the yeah the

camp operations for our summer camps and our aquatics camps it's a small amount just to increase them like said we've increased more camps at Roosevelt we doing more at Garfield so that's just again a little bit more of the canvas

David PenalozaItem 4

fund going toward that perfect thank you thank you for that that's it um one more thing with the parking that was mentioned uh i am supportive of staff's recommended alternative uh free parking on sundays and our walk day instead of whenever free parking every day uh that would give us a 1.2 million dollar savings to our general fund um i think it's time that we start moving away away from that city staff. So I'm supportive of that alternative.

David PenalozaItem 4

And yes, and the other item of interest is, and it's not necessarily in these slides, but I know that we, the city, participates in a number of regional memberships that we are a part of. I want us to, I would like to move away from funding ACCOC and our membership in that regional board. I haven't seen the value in being a part of it. I was initially the original board member and wanted to stay on to see the value, but I do not see that. So I don't know if our board member would want to chime in, but wanted to see if... I know that for this year we've paid,

David PenalozaItem 4

but as we move forward, we cut back on that funding for that board and remove from that membership.

Do we know how much that is? 35,000.

David PenalozaItem 4

Okay. I think that that's also funding that could be used for something, you know, towards the arts and continue to increase that amount there. While I mention the arts, I'm also not supportive of touching any of the budget that goes to the Bowers Museum currently. I think we got a—I am definitely supportive of having a conversation, a serious conversation with legal and revisiting that contract. But as of right now, just removing funding, not supportive of that, wanted to state that for the record. But as far as that membership goes, we need to revisit those memberships and see which one has value.

David PenalozaItem 4

And I believe that currently we should remove from ACCLC.

Thank you, Councilman. Just to be clear, I'm sorry. Just to be clear, you had proposed to remove it for 2425, correct?

David PenalozaItem 4

Correct, yes. Okay. Thank you. Because I know it's on the calendar year, right? January? So we've paid for this year, but starting next year, we wouldn't be a part of it anymore.

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

Thank you. Mayor Prachan?

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

Thank you so much, Mayor. So just to cover a couple things. First is relating to the arts funding. Thank you so much for addressing that. I am not supportive of changing anything with the Bowers. We have that agreement. And, you know, actually one of the speakers, I'm so sorry, I don't remember your name, but reminded me of a memory, which is the Bowers was the first museum I had ever visited as a kid right here in Santa Ana. And it's so easy to take for granted some of the resources that we have right here in the city, whether it's Discovery Cube or Heritage Museum of Orange County or any of these other resources.

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

And, you know, when you're a student in school, you learn about this art and some of this kind of, they seem so far away. And I would say with Bowers, y'all have done a great job of bringing that closer to home. Some of the, whether it's artifacts, you know, master paintings and the jewels that you had last year. I think that that's really wonderful, and I want our own students and residents to have access to that and to continue to have access. Now, that doesn't mean that there isn't some things that we would like to address, but I hope that we can continue this positive partnership

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

and really elevate Bowers and the city of Santa Ana as we move forward when we're talking about what a city of art means right here in Santa Ana. The second thing I would like to comment on is the downtown parking.

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

You know, I struggled with this at the last budget cycle, and we did increase parking subsidies. Sorry, not parking subsidies, but we increased subsidies to some of the businesses in downtown because of COVID, because of the streetcar. And we had the subsidies for the parking, but it's been four years. and I think that we really need to move away from this type of subsidy. We're no longer providing the subsidies for the auto sales, unless I'm wrong. Please correct me if I am. And I think that we need to move away from the subsidies for downtown parking.

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

You know, I really think that we should not include the $1.658 million in this budget. I think that we should not allocate it for anything and set that aside. And I agree with Council Member Becerra that if we want to bring this, if the council majority wants to bring that item back to discuss further, we can. But we don't even know what the numbers are for Sundays and Art Walk days. If those are the busiest days in downtown and generating tax revenue and visitors, why would we lose revenue for ourselves in order to subsidize, you know, other businesses?

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

We need to really look at those numbers. And so that would be my approach to the downtown parking at this time. Thank you.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Thank you, Baron Pro Tem. So I'm going to go to parking, and I'm with Councilman Penalosa at free parking on Sundays and the Art Walk. Now, if you could provide us with additional information, it's being requested. That is, you know, different how we choose to vote. However, I know that the time that I spend downtown Santa Ana, which is quite regular, they're asking for Sundays, Art Walk. They want free parking. I mean, we can't give them every day free, but we should be able to give them something. The weekends are quite busy down there, and I'm not sure we could do the whole weekends,

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

but I'm going to go with the second one, the alternative is free parking on Sundays at Art Walk, again, unless you can provide with something different. I do have a question for Hawk. What exactly is the . I know you invited me and I didn't go. I had something else. But could you explain what that is?

that's sixty thousand dollars okay so the main content event is a volunteer event throughout the city uh this past year we had 14 different sites where we all showed up and it takes a lot again and at the end of the day we had a celebration a little concert fair when they

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

come together i remember now is the day we were all in a meeting yes it's a volunteer day okay correct special meeting yeah i got it okay i forgot i apologize and thank you now the fund rent for 85 000 how much revenue do we generate uh this past year i said the 5k was free because

that's been traditional out of what we charged and what we got from sales we generated a little

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

over about 10 grand we generated 10 grand for an 85 000 event yes but out of that 85 000 about 50

went to closing the streets and traffic is there any event that we have and that's put you in the

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

spot and you can if you prefer to go through the city manager is there any event on here that that is not generating a lot of revenue that you can possibly share either publicly or through an email if you're more comfortable. I don't wanna put you on the spot.

No, the point of our events is not to generate revenue. They're free community events for the community. So like I said, we don't generate revenue off our events, to be honest.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

And I agree with you, it's not to generate revenue, but we do wanna generate some revenue. I mean, you have beer sales at the 10K or 5K.

There's a couple events we do have the beer gardens

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

and we get a percentage of that correct and are we generating revenue there a little bit but not much okay all right that's what i want to know so um there was a comment about moving money from the police department i will not at all support that moving any money from the police department mr acting city manager we are down 45 positions when councilman hernandez and i met with i believe it Washington Square community when commander from traffic what's his name commander Marty shared that out of the 45 officers that were missing or lacking or short of in patrol seven of them are in traffic so when the community member

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

came earlier asking for an officer at the corner of memory lane and flower I'd like one too because I live there and it's awful there especially in the morning so late in the evenings but we are short seven officers in traffic so So there's really, there's a shortage everywhere. So I'm looking forward to us hiring additional officers, not taking money away from them. Because what they did say at that meeting that Councilman Hernandez and I were at, and thank you, Councilman Hernandez, for sharing that we do need to have a positive relationship with the police department.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

I really appreciate you stating that, is that one of the community members said, that is very scary. And everybody agreed. great so I'm gonna when councilman Becerra read off the you know that the quality of life and public safety of our community we're short 45 officers on patrol and and I'll leave that to you and the chief but that is critical in this city a city this size the city with the crime that we have not the route of control I didn't say that the crime that we have the gang violence that we have the homicide we just had a homicide so we need our officers so I'll stop there there. Next up, Councilman Hernandez.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

Councilmember Hernandez. Thank you, Madam Mayor. I just want to share I am supportive of free parking on Sunday as well as free parking on Art Walk. I also wanted to express my concern and my support for Councilmember Becerra's recommendation. I'm concerned about the parking. We should be generating revenue if we're spending that much money to upkeep and to maintain our parking lots we should see a return on that investment I don't see one and furthermore we also do have an LAZ parking contract which is costly as well in addition to the fact that LAZ parking is in charge of maintenance as well as

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

supervising our meters in downtown but in addition to that they also hand out tickets we also have officers who are ticketing people in downtown my concern And I'm sure many of my colleagues here have gotten messages from businesses in downtown, like Chapter 1, LAZ parks and treats the businesses like sharks. They wait outside of the parking meters as people are eating, and they wait until the minute ticks down. And in many cases, people have gotten tickets as they're entering their vehicle with one minute left remaining.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

meaning. Business owners in the downtown, staple businesses like Chapter 1, businesses that have been here a very long time have expressed their concerns with LEZ parking. I want to be very clear, the issue of parking in downtown, I'm supportive of us isolating that dialogue, given that there's sizable investments that our city's making in the downtown, over $2 million in the parking PARKING STRUCTURES AND THEN OVER 300,000 IN LEZ PARKING CONTRACTS. SO I'M CURIOUS AND I'M ALSO NOT SUPPORTIVE OF LEZ'S CONTRACT. I'D LIKE US TO SEE SOME ALTERNATIVES TO THAT.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

I ALSO AM GOING TO CITE MY SUPPORT FOR THE CITY BRINGING FIESTAS PATRIAS BACK TO THE DOWNTOWN. I KNOW THAT WE HAVE WORKED CREATIVELY ON EXPANDING OUR PARTNERSHIPS. I think ways that the city can improve how we generate revenue is sponsorship. Partnering with Latino-owned brands that are local especially, that can bring in some money for these events. These events should put on themselves. I also think that having the Chicano Heritage Festival rotate and going to respective Chicano communities is going to be a big revenue. It will generate revenue for the city.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

Parks that I would like to see it visit are Del High Park, Memorial Park, Santanita Park, Campesino Park, El Salvador Park, Centennial Park being the hub but it being rotated around our city. The Orange County Heritage Council running the Juneteenth event, not supportive of the way that we RFP'd it. We can already see a vast difference in the level of events. The first two years that we had with the Heritage Council, world-class talent. This year we have a cover brand of bruno mars who's not black it speaks volumes of the first two years that we

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

had the juneteenth uh celebration being spearheaded by our residents this year we do not that's money that would stay in the community because many of the performers are from our city uh that concludes

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

my second round of comments and um thank you councilman harris councilmember sir mayor if you

can just declare around the lac concerns regarding the um enforcement and maybe overly assertive enforcement in the downtown the chief and i will be scheduled in a meeting with llc management and executive to discuss that the approach thank you and then just out of an

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

abundance of caution if you can include myself and the mayor in that meeting because i know we have both been contacted by our businesses in the downtown i know she's a champion for our our businesses when it comes to parking issues she and i both talked about our concerns and i think this would be helpful in next steps thank you thank you i have the same conversation you do

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

with the chief and regarding the parking councilman thank you madam mayor um i just want to

Phil BacerraItem 4

as far as for the arts i just want to also express support for the arts master plan i think that before we start talking about uh anything beyond what's currently budgeted as far as what we commit to the arts let's have a plan and i appreciate that we already have an arts master plan but that I definitely need some updating. To go back to the parking situation, let me ask everybody this. So would you spend $2 million to get $1.3 million? Would you spend $1.8 million to get $1.7 million? So when we're talking about whether we want free parking on Sundays or days that end in Y or don't end in Y,

Phil BacerraItem 4

that's like asking what's on dessert in the Titanic. It doesn't matter. We're not making money. Why are we even having an LAZ contract? contract, what, is it more important to have people enforce meters? But for what purpose? The idea, I've always understood it, and correct me if I'm wrong, staff, my understanding was South Bristol doesn't have a clean and safe program. 17th Street doesn't have a clean and safe program. Why? We don't have parking structures. We don't have something that generates that, I mean, I know South Bristol generates revenue, but I'm talking about the additional revenue that would actually

Phil BacerraItem 4

pay for a program like Clean and Safe. Not only are we not paying for that program, which by the way costs seven hundred and sixty two thousand dollars a year, but we're actually paying to enforce meters and structures. So it doesn't really matter what day of the week is free or what time of the day is free. We're in the red. I mean honestly we would be better off economically to not charge anything in the meters or in the structures, but I'm not advocating for that because what blows me away and director garcia if you have any information i'd love to

Phil BacerraItem 4

hear it but why does it cost 600 000 on the average to manage a parking structure back in april 2022 this council approved having our city-wide graffiti removal contractor go into those structures which look like a bombed out third world country and they look beautiful now because people can go in there with the app take a picture and report the graffiti and it gets removed so that's one obligation that this contractor doesn't even have to do so when you leave the structure you have to pay with who an automated structure we can have jack from it do that so help me understand why six hundred thousand dollars is being expended on each

Phil BacerraItem 4

structure to do what go in the red i mean is this a hobby of ours what what ended up happening uh

council member becerra and city council is we increased the level of security at the parking parking garages which adds up to almost six hundred thousand dollars per year because it's a 24 7 security service within those parking garages so that that's and I I appreciate the council members request to come back in 60 days we are happy to explore if we want to cut back on those security hours um I we're able to pull a month this is for the most recent month uh 48 000 for security for for the month of April. So one of the most recent complete months that we had.

So it's a big chunk of the expense.

Phil BacerraItem 4

So let me understand this. We have our PD. We have dedicated officers to downtown. We have dedicated officers, and yet we're also spending hundreds of thousands on 24-hour security?

That's correct. There is even security in the Clean and Safe contract as well.

Phil BacerraItem 4

Wow. And by the way, not to go back into that one,

Phil BacerraItem 4

one, the clean and safe program is very duplicative. But my understanding and Director Saba, correct me if I'm wrong, the Clean Cities Initiative was supposed to clean these high traffic areas. Downtown, thank goodness, is a very high traffic area. So why is it that we're paying clean and safe and the Clean Cities Initiative? Because if we're not going to be paying the Clean Cities Initiative, I know our residents would appreciate that because then their bills would go down. But the fact is, is now we're paying for these services twice. And we're going in the red to pay for those services.

Councilmember, I'm not familiar with the Clean and Safe program.

Phil BacerraItem 4

No, no, I'm talking about the Clean City Initiative.

Yes, the Clean City Initiative is a citywide program that was targeted to clean sidewalks, pick up litter, but it's citywide, so it's not just focused on the downtown.

Phil BacerraItem 4

Director Salva, no, no, and it does a great job, and this is not directed at you, but my whole point in asking you that question is just simply that, so last I checked, 4th and Main Street, is that in Santa Ana? Of course. And so I assume that the Clean City Initiative probably goes by those bus stops and cleans, correct?

Yes.

Phil BacerraItem 4

And then yet we're also paying for the Clean City Initiative to do what sounds like the same thing.

I believe that's a more focused, more needed service because the downtown is much more active and vibrant. So you need that type of service, and I agree with that.

Phil BacerraItem 4

Oh, and thank you for that, Director Saba. And I a million percent agree. We absolutely need those services downtown. And no way am I advocating for getting rid of them. But what I want to do is look at the fact that as we're getting to a point where we're going to have to tighten our belts, well, first of all, I don't care if we are rolling in cash. The idea that we would spend money to lose money is absolutely insane. And what we're doing here to spend $2.1 million to get $1.3 million, that's out of control. And that's why in 60 days.

Phil BacerraItem 4

So with all due respect to my colleagues, it doesn't really matter whether you have one-hour parking one day or Sundays for free. we need to have a much more serious discussion about this because I'm having a concern. I think Mayor Pro Tem brought this up that, you know, we shouldn't even be looking at subsidizing this. I mean, we're going to subsidize something to lose money. So I don't know how we would do that tonight if my colleagues had the appetite for it. I would like to pull this aside and deal with this separately. I know it's, I don't want to mess up the budget tonight, but at the same time,

Phil BacerraItem 4

it gives me a lot of concern to approve something with these numbers. first is that a motion council member no no no no first so so part of the part of the

consideration especially in this issue one you're right we agree second and it's the idea of the parking and the free parking is because we have been very supportive of the downtown businesses one with covet impacts then with the octa and and the um and the train and the completion so So this is why we made that determination as far as the free parking and what we call the subsidies, right? Maybe the evaluation is we don't do that anymore, right? So why the temperate approach, right? So this is why we did that. That's what we offered based on the discussion.

We discussed the budget was how about free Sundays, which is what we heard, and then free artwork to be more supportive. But if the intent is not to have anything free, you're not going to get any level of, what's the word, combative aspect from us, pushback, right? If that's where we want to go, exactly like you said, do we want to operate as a business, right? And we want to provide the services in support of those contributions. This is how we yield revenue, right? The parking structures, the parking meters, yes. Yes. Do we want to cite people just for the sake of citing, wait for them and hunting them down?

That's not what we want to do either. Right. So we have to balance that. That's the key.

Phil BacerraItem 4

Right. And so the fundamental question here is, do we even do enforcement? Do we even charge money if to do those exercises, we are bleeding out to do that? That just seems ridiculous. So that's the fundamental question we need to do, because to your point, these structures should be generating revenue and they're not in fact we're paying out to just go through the dance and the exercise of having folks lie in wait and go after folks as meters that's

over care LAZ doesn't just do enforcement in the downtown is citywide that's the one yeah number two I don't think we pay you know close to four point million dollars on the LAC which is kind of the fine stick gets generated I think our contract is less than a million dollars so we can evaluate that as part of the consideration in 60 days right we can bring it that too but but we're not losing money per se. We're not paying, for example, LAC more money than we're generating in fines. That's just a clear fact.

Phil BacerraItem 4

But I'm sorry, with all due respect, I'm looking at the budget and those numbers that I cited in CAP. Tell me if I'm wrong here. I'm looking at the numbers. Those numbers said that we were basically, for the parking structures, the revenue was $1.398 million, and we are spending $2.1 million on those structures.

You're not wrong. But I'm talking about LAC citywide enforcement.

Phil BacerraItem 4

Oh, sure.

Yeah.

Phil BacerraItem 4

well no we need parking enforcement city-wide i think what councilmember hernandez and some of my colleagues have talked about is yeah we've heard from our downtown businesses that there's this kind of you know hunt uh from the the um the parking enforcement that makes downtown seem unfriendly um i would just add and i know my time's up just real quickly what um councilmember hernandez but it's a good discussion councilmember hernandez um had brought up the idea of a meeting Again, I'd like that to come back to the full council.

Phil BacerraItem 4

I do respect the fact that Council Member Hernandez and Council Member Penaloza, downtown is in their wards. But this is something that impacts all of us because this is a gross inefficiency.

Understood. Okay, thank you.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

So can I just make, so you asked to pull this. So can we separate this item as he's requesting? And are you making a motion just so we can separate it and bring it back in 60 days? That's what I want. and the only reason I'm saying that is in the meantime maybe we can agree to like do free Sundays and our walk until we get the report I just I think the active city manager made a great point and I think all of us you were all here and I wasn't downtown hot they did go through covid um OCTA is only 86 percent complete it's not going to be done until 2025 hopefully so they're

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

still suffering and I I know that we've you know some people are like well okay but they are still struggling and so we i just want to be mindful of that so are you making a motion to separate this particular item and bring it back in 60 days well that's why that's why i wanted to ask staff

is that something that is feasible what we could do to keep this budget process on track is that we could pull the 1.6 million plus contribution from the general fund to the parking enterprise we could pull that line item out of the budget so that would be an amendment to the proposed ordinance before you tonight and then we would bring back a staff report with some alternatives some more information to facilitate the further discussion by City Council and then and then at that point in time the City Council could determine whether there will be any subsidy from the

general fund for the parking enterprise or not and keep in mind that the subsidy that we had in the proposed budget was from spendable fund balance it was one-time money and the way that we proposed it was that you know okay let's just do this you know one-time subsidy if you will with a plan to get away from the subsidy and that's why we were able to propose it as a one-time !

Phil BacerraItem 4

So is it a subsidy for the parking operations or is it for clean and safe?

It's for the parking enterprise fund. Now the parking enterprise fund includes parking operations and clean and safe. So the subsidy wasn't specifically allocated to any one line item within the parking enterprise. It was just to backfill complete and total operations in the parking enterprise.

Phil BacerraItem 4

So if there was any motion to be made or something to be attached to a motion at some point, I would support taking whatever the subsidy necessary to fund clean and safe fully in downtown, fully for this fiscal year. And then as far as anything related to the parking enterprise, that would be part of our discussion, which would include potentially amending existing contracts.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 4

Okay. And may I just add a procedural issue? so because the you have some people that have submitted comments we are required to take that comment before you take action that doesn't mean that you can't take motions and put them in a parking lot and then do that but if you're going to start going beyond just basic questions of your staff and starting to formulate policy you might want to pause and make sure you take that public

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

comment yes the city clerk just reminded me and they've been waiting so I was gonna ask the council are you okay with hearing our public comments and then we can continue this conversation they've been on hold for quite some time go Go ahead, Jennifer. I'm sorry, Madam President.

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

Thank you, Mayor. So, noting for the record that there were no emails submitted related to budget public hearing item number 40, the in-person speaker, Victor Mendez.

Thank you. These comments were a lot to think about. I was about ready to rewrite my whole comments, but I just decided to stick with what I already wrote. So I'm going to categorize in between the good, the bad, and the ugly. There's some good things in the budget that I saw. This 800-page document that I kind of culled through. You're going to offset the cost of investment advisory services with revenue. We need more of that type of thinking, as we were already talking about. Find value added in our services and our approaches.

There's also the fact that you're not having to fund workers' comp out of the general fund or subsidize it in any way or any type of gap. There's still a lot of work to be done. On the bad side, I don't see the value in $30,500 for employee appreciation. I don't know what that's going to buy the taxpayer. Maybe you think otherwise, but you need to look at that. that. On the bad side, the utility tax will go up, revenue will go up, but it's because the rate payers are going to get a rate increase for the PUC. So it's not something that you earned, it's something that we the taxpayer have to incur through higher electricity rates.

I really feel the vehicle, the discontinuation of the vehicle incentive program is very short-sighted. That goes beyond sales tax. It creates jobs, very good jobs. It enhances your reputation in the auto industry, and its multiplier effect is incredible, far beyond what you can imagine. Maybe cut it in half or do something with it, but try to do what you can to keep it alive. I think it's a very value-added approach. It's not a subsidy. It's a way to incentivize

sales in the city in a very key industry of Santa Ana. Lastly, on this bond financing, or the city's bond financing grant for debt, for the pension, you know, do you want to take a look at that? How much has gone into that? How much have we spent? I'm a little confused about myself. I do know that at one point when this was first initiated, if the The CalPERS return went below 7%. There would be an additional cost back to the city. And that's happened twice. So the question being, how much we put in, how much we had to pay, there might be a solution there to everything you're talking about.

There might be a few hundred thousand dollars, maybe a million. I don't know. I would say just look at that. It seems to be a completely discretionary contribution. And if there's a way you can have the best of both worlds, please look at it.

and then lastly I think it's really about it I mean I think you got to do a lot of work to do here but there's things I think they can be definitely improved on and I hope through these next discussions you'll find some good solutions and keep carrying this forward it's not a bad budget we're not in terrible shape but I don't think we're gonna get solve our problems by looking

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

at 40 000 issues thank you mayor and city council we have two speakers that were in the queue when the public hearing was first called first speaker mcat please unmute and make your comments

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

mcat did you wish to speak on the public hearing

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

next speaker Maria Zacharias Torres Maria if you could unmute to make your comments hi good

evening can you hear me yes please go ahead okay hi good evening I'm calling in regards to the the budget I would like to see more funds allocated to the parks and rec budget studies have shown that more parks more programming for youth also bring higher quality of life which also brings down our crime so I think that more we we should have more than 4% allocated towards parks and rec I would

also like to see the winter village not be completely terminated as a program. I feel like it's something that is good for families that don't always have access to being able to take their families out during the winter. And if for parking, I feel like if we're able to have it on weekends, Saturdays and Sundays, it would definitely bring up about more revenue to the city as a lot of families would be able to come more often to the downtown area. Thank you.

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

Mayor and Council, that concludes the public speakers for the public hearing.

Benjamin VazquezItem 4

Thank you very much. Council Member Vasquez. Thank you so much. I just want to go back to the parking and i do um would want to go to free parking on sundays and art walk to have a net savings of 1.2 million so um and i do want to have a conversation about it afterwards but so thank you council member vasetta and if we can have some of that savings go towards uh funding the art HARDWALK ITSELF THAT BRINGS PEOPLE SATURDAYS TO SAN ANA AND PROMOTING SUNDAYS. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A HARD TIME WITH THIS BUDGET COMING TWO YEARS. WE'RE NOT GOING TO BE TALKING ABOUT

Benjamin VazquezItem 4

THIS ANYMORE. SAME WITH EVENTS. I'M REALLY WORRIED ABOUT THE FUTURE IS IF WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO MAKE MONEY BUT THESE CAN BE MONEY MAKERS AND THEY HAVE MONEY MAKERS AND I DON'T WANT SEE THEM GO AWAY, ESPECIALLY FIESAS PATRIAS AND THE PARADE, WHICH HAS PAID FOR ITSELF AND HAS MADE MONEY FOR PEOPLE IN THE PAST. SO SOMEHOW WE CAN FIGURE OUT AS A CITY HOW TO BRING IN SPONSORS AND FROM FOOD SALES. I KNOW BEING AN EVENT ORGANIZER FOR MANY YEARS, OUR BUDGET WAS RAN ON FOOD SALES AND VENDORS.

Benjamin VazquezItem 4

And we had community vendors, and we didn't try to charge too much, but we did have a lot more vendors and a lot more food vendors. So somehow we've got to keep all our events budgeted and paid for coming in these rough years where we don't have the money anymore and our costs are going up. So I want to start now on figuring out sponsorships for those places. Thank you.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Thank you, Council Member Vazquez. Council Member Lopez?

Jessie LopezItem 4

Yes, thank you. So first, to Council Member Penales' point, I am supportive of revisiting the memberships and subscriptions because it's almost at 60,000. And I think we sit on different boards. We're part of different subscriptions that essentially do the same thing. So I'm very supportive of the request. And, you know, during the last budget workshop under museum category, I did ask that the miscellaneous line item be expanded or be explained to us so that we understand, the community understands what exactly it is paying for. I personally did not receive that information.

Jessie LopezItem 4

I don't know if other council members received the information that they requested. that the receiving file didn't necessarily explain to me what it's paying for and so I think it would be great if we can hear from staff at this

point yeah it's it's just simply a one line item budget it's paid it's divided over 12 monthly installments so it's paid monthly to the museum but it is a basically for the maintenance of our property. So the museum manages the maintenance of our property that they occupy, and so we pay for that maintenance directly to Bowers, and then they manage it. Before each fiscal year, they give us a detailed budget of we think that we're gonna spend X amount

for sweeping or this or that or the other thing, and that it falls within the amount that is part of our agreement, and then we move forward with putting it into the proposed budget. So I think what I'm hearing you say is that you would like to see that detailed task list that the museum provides us with to support their request for another allocation of maintenance per our agreement. Is that correct?

Jessie LopezItem 4

Well, I saw part of the chart, right, in terms of the water, what is going to be or the projection. And so I saw that, but I was unclear, again, as to what the miscellaneous fund was being used for because, as we all said, we didn't really understand what it was being used for. What I'm hearing you say is that the miscellaneous line item is being used for essentially capital.

at all no that's our payment to okay that's our maintenance payment to bowers because it is a payment to bowers we're not performing the maintenance we didn't put it under our maintenance line item we just put it under miscellaneous expense because it doesn't fit

Jessie LopezItem 4

in any of our other spending categories so it should be part of i guess like the capital right or or the fund you just described yes that is correct okay thank you right also customer as

part of the consent item number eight we attach a couple of the actual contract that keeps the explanation of the contractual obligations and what is supposed to be covered between the city responsibility and Bowers Museum so if the complete contract should provide some of the questions that yeah I think

Jessie LopezItem 4

that was part of the confusion because one of the line items says maintenance and the other one is yes and so cats essentially saying it should all be one

and the one yes yes okay thank you but as far as the specifics aspects right on line item the consent item number eight you'll see the actual contract and the language and the responsibility

Jessie LopezItem 4

yeah i i mean you i know you gave us all the the contract it's not that hefty or a big lift to read um so i read it and and you know but i really just wanted to understand what that 1.6 under

miscellaneous we are counting the budget correct yes understood yes thank you um also one of my

Jessie LopezItem 4

requests from the last budget workshop was the three million for the alleys um i don't see it reflected in the budget or the cip the cpi uh can staff make sure that my eyes aren't reading things

wrong excuse me yes you you did request it we do during the May 16 May 16th budget work session we do look for you know majority support from the dais when we're building the proposed budget and we did not see it for the three million dollar increase for alleys okay thank you you know I I brought it up and I'm

Jessie LopezItem 4

bringing it up again because there is a projection of 10 to 15 years that we're essentially telling our constituents if you have an issue with your alleys and if they're not in good condition this is the time frame right it's gonna take about 10 to 15 years with the 1.5 and so I requested 3 million because I would like to see those alleys be repaired at a much faster pace but if the council did not support my request then it is unfortunate and it's I think our constituents need to know that it is not going to be 10 or 15 years it's going to be much longer than that

Jessie LopezItem 4

um so back to parking on LAZ uh you know I know that you've received multiple complaints I've received the multiple complaints um particularly about folks waiting next to a car waiting for the meter to expire to ticket people I was gonna ask staff to meet with them and to address these issues and lastly I just really want to thank all the departments for working together for making sure that your your department budgets are fair and that they are considerate of each and every other department and this process is really only going to get harder and harder as we continue to lose

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

revenue thank you thank you um mayor pro temp oh i'm sorry should i hear apologies councilman

David PenalozaItem 4

thank you mayor and thank you staff so far for all the information you've been providing um the one first question i have so far is uh the fun run uh very supportive of it remaining because i know it's very popular with our residents however in looking at all the 5ks and 10ks around the region they charge minimum 65 dollars per and and people register in droves i know that the the disney 5k is like 300 300 per person i mean it's crazy amounts not asking you to charge

David PenalozaItem 4

that much but for the 10k-ers i appreciate that the 5k is free for our residents the 10k-ers uh what remind me what we charge this year for 10k

The amount charged to individuals is 20, but by the time their credit card is charged, it's 24 because of the service fees. Okay.

David PenalozaItem 4

See, I would encourage you all to look at increasing the 10K fee at least. You know, if that's $50, it's still cheaper than any 10K in the region. just just in FYI that I that's to clarify was 25 plus a shirt okay oh yeah perfect so I mean there's opportunity there to for it to at least just pay for the street closure if we can and not to make a profit but to to just balance out the just my suggestion the other thing with the

David PenalozaItem 4

parking I'm happy to hear that their support for the just reduce the free parking to just Sundays and and the art walk Saturdays I will and madam city attorney if this isn't the time or the place to talk about the contract with LAZ I would suggest that we just reach out to them and change the guidelines to say hey give us give people at least a 30-minute grace period because I have received reports of being being vultures and I could see that none of my colleagues like that but you know if they're hanging out waiting by a car

David PenalozaItem 4

it's like you know if there's a 30-minute grace period they can't do that thank ticket people so that would be my suggestion for that the other thing and yes my colleagues don't think that I wasn't gonna bring up the dog park um with the with the capital improvement project uh in here i know that through item 13 we appropriated four million dollars but capital improvement project uh lit on page 67 it lists the dog park at centennial park as an unfunded priority project in the amount of 14 million Is that accurate after the decision that we did today?

No. That proposed document was published last week, and Council just made that decision to fund it tonight.

David PenalozaItem 4

Okay. But I know that that $14 million also included many other relocation costs that shouldn't have been part of the project from the beginning. Will that be reflected? Because I don't want to vote on this and adopt this tonight or approve the first reading of it if it's not accurate. So do we have, how quickly can we get these updated numbers? And that's just one item on the dog park. I could imagine how many others are not up to date. So for us to sit here now and approve something that might not be accurate is also not okay. So do we know what that number actually is that is unfunded?

So I can tell you the $4 million on the dock part, right, as it belongs, regarding that aspect. As far as the – and I know we're talking about the PD relocation, we're still working to get the accurate numbers on that. But I did provide an email, right, that gives you the estimates. So that's part of that where we're moving currently for this fiscal year.

David PenalozaItem 4

Okay. And I think the Executive Director of Public Works might have a comment.

Male Speaker 1, can you turn your mic on, please?

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Or can we turn his mic on, please? All right, again, there you go.

Male Speaker 1, Once the budget is adopted, then the $4 million will become part of the CIP for the dog park. Male Speaker 1, Okay. Male Speaker 1, That's why it's not here.

David PenalozaItem 4

Male Speaker 1, Right. Okay, thank you for that. However, the amount, the $14 million, and this brings back to the meeting we had two weeks ago with all the staff, it was estimated by public work staff that the relocation amount was $4 million, which was why this was $14 million. If that is no longer part of this budget, this number should actually be 10, then minus the $4 million we appropriated tonight, you're looking at $6 million. So I want to make sure that we're all on the same page here.

We do have a concept that is within the $4 million budget, not including anything that had to do with the relocation of the PD facilities.

David PenalozaItem 4

Okay.

Councilman, what we can do is we can update that page of the CIP document to reflect a $10 million project less the $4 million funding that the City Council approved tonight with a net unfunded amount of $6 million. Perfect.

David PenalozaItem 4

That's what I wanted to hear and that's what I would like reflected on this because I've seen many numbers throughout the last month that one person has some numbers, another person has another estimate and nothing matches so i want to make sure that we're approving accurate um accounting uh that that is it those are the comments i have for now mayor thank you thank you

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

so i'm gonna have i have a couple so um mr garcia i don't know judson rental registry are we upside down we're i'm looking at the numbers here if it's a longer answer then we can get an email from the city manager or from you but i'm looking at rental registry adopted 23 24 then you look at 24 25 are we generating revenue we're spending looks like we're upside down here

so we currently have 1.9 million in rental registry revenue we did kick 200 000 of that amount over towards paying back the inclusionary housing fund we have staffed up to four individuals at this point and and we are looking at our expenses on the petitions for fair rent and so the 1.7 million and this is where I'm glad Waldo's here he provided a better explanation of that earlier today I'd love to hear it.

Good evening, Councilmembers. The $1.7 million was the result of when we were going to the budget preparation, so at that time in March or so, that was the best available information as to what revenue we collected. But since then, we now have $1.9 million, so we know it's a little bit more than that.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Can you turn your mic on?

To answer the question, the Mayor's question, we're not upside down.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

No. Thank you. I want to be clear on that. Okay the other thing that I have I'm also in support of the Bowers and leaving it as is I'm sure we'll hear more from them more from you Mr. Acton City Manager as far as what we're doing are you now gonna be sitting on the board there are some things that you as a city manager should be on the board there's we need to know more and none of us are up here when the contract was signed and the deal was made it is a gem in our city but we do need to know and see what they're doing with our community and And either you or somebody that you send to sit in your place on the board.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

I'd like to see that. I do have a question and I just want to make a statement that on page 40 of 747 there's some deletes of the classifications of SEIU. I want to make sure that before we delete any position you're meeting and conferring. And you don't need to answer yes or no. I just want to make sure that that is occurring. Or if you want to answer, feel free. but we all know that you're going to change classifications we meet and

confer that is the customary practice when we delete meeting comfort and I don't not sure we met and confirm thank you I'd like that and if you can let us

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

know please if you in fact to do that the last thing I have for this one for me is I don't see it on here and I might have missed it out of the eight nine 900 pages that are here. The My Santa Ana app, I've been asking for, and I don't know anybody who disagrees up here, and if you do, please let me, the translation to Spanish and Vietnamese. It is so critical. So if we can hear about that or know the cost or when or why, we need that in this city. It is very important. Is that a drum roll? I hear a drum roll.

it's a drum roll jack jack jack good evening mayor mayor pro tem city council members we did after the uh prior council meeting where you stressed the importance of that we reached out again to our vendor and told them how important it was that we get that or we're going to have to look for another application and they did say they were going to put it on the road map for this year So we don't have an exact date, but they're gonna start with Spanish and then Hopefully do Vietnamese afterwards

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

So I'm gonna sound like council panel. Oh, so right his issue with his dog park money money pops up but he disappears But I'm like I'm like that dog that'll just latch on to you because I say it all the time about the app So can you we get a better timeline than just like oh they're working if they can't do it Then we need to go somewhere else. That's the bottom line. Yeah, absolutely

And the reason we want to give them a chance first is because it will probably take six months to a year to move off to a different application.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

We can translate it.

And we haven't yet found another app that does translation. So assuming we can find one, it's going to take some time to move over. So we are putting pressure on them. We do have another vendor that does partial translation, but I don't think it would be to the level that you would actually like. so we will continue to look and we'll continue to pressure the vendor as well

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

okay so you're saying six month timeline is that what I heard you say they said

this year but I wouldn't you know I bet you'll find a great student Santa Unified

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

they can put that app for you together or at the college or well it's contest right I mean people create apps all the time so I guess we look for an RFP I don't know I'm not making sure I'm not giving direction up here I'm simply saying I've been sitting here for a year and a half and I've asked and that and everybody's been in agreement every time we got to the community Spanish they can't use it if they speak Spanish or Vietnamese their children are using it for them or their spouses or their grandchildren whoever it may be so I cannot stress the importance of this yeah I just want to also mention it's

more than just the application behind the application is a whole work order system that Public Works and the crews and everybody use so it's it's not just as simple as an application it's a whole system that's working together

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

important ability gets dragged into everything on Public Works gets it all I bet you Caesar Public Works you guys work together to find an app we need one it's just imagine we really really do so six months I'm gonna say six months sure okay six months it's on the record six months okay who's next Councilman Hernandez. Councilman Hernandez.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

Thank you, Madam Mayor.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Oh, I'm sorry. Can I let her go? She doesn't have a second. Yes.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

I just had a very brief comment. Go ahead. I wanted to second your comment on the issue related to IT on the app and fully supportive of it being translated to Spanish and Vietnamese. And that concludes my comment. Thank you.

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

Thank you. Mayor Patan. Thank you, Mayor. So I wanted to first support my colleagues who, to move away from ACCOC, I think it's a duplicate, you know, agency, or excuse me, organization. That's one. Two, regarding the parking, you know, we're looking at 60 days. The fiscal year is going to end in a few weeks. And that's funded, right, to the end of the fiscal year. Is there a few dollars out there in the world somewhere in public works or city managers account where you can just cover that one Saturday for Art Walk and the four Sundays in July?

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

So that way we can set aside that $1.6 million or so for later discussion?

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

I mean, I still don't know how much it is. That's the thing.

if the city council directs us to remove the 1.6 million dollar subsidy from the proposed ordinance tonight we can do that and we can figure out solutions and bring back a full report to city

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

council because if we bring it back once we bring back the full report we can always backfill whichever department you know volunteered as tribute to pay for the you know five right days

right we have what 11 12 departments everybody pays understood so the reason why i wanted to

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

say that is because i didn't want to approve some tiny amount in the budget that we don't even know if it's going to cover anything before we have this full discussion that i think everybody is interested in having and i'd like to see some of the numbers um right because i get it in downtown you don't have a ton of parking but people knew that when they opened a business in downtown we have the rafferty opening up that's going to have over 300 and i think 30 parking spots You know, those are supposed to be folks who are going to be living and shopping in downtown. We have the County of Orange that's opening up a parking structure.

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

We also have Third and Broadway that's going to be coming up at some point. So we have more parking structures coming up. And I really think that we need to move away from the subsidies because we say it's a one-time thing. And I think some of my colleagues have echoed in the past, right, we say we approve something something for one time and then next year it's another one time and it's another one time and I think right now we're looking to make the hard decision. So I guess that would be my request, you know, supporting the four Sundays in July plus that one art walk.

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

We can divide and conquer among all the different department budgets and then come back with that analysis or discussion for the other $1.6 million. And then the last thing I wanted to kind of say, Mayor, I think you brought up the positions. I wasn't sure we were going to go there, but since we are, you know, yeah, the SEIU positions, you know, we know how to do this, and I think it's really concerning, I think maybe for for all of us, I don't want to speak for everyone, that if one of our labor unions is saying, hey, we didn't know about this, I think we can all do better.

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

And so I don't want to approve any of that. Is it okay to bring it back at the next meeting for that particular item? I think that's all I have for now. Thank you.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

So I guess that's what we said here. So we're going to give direction and that's what we do. Correct, Mr. Acting City Manager? I'm going to go really quick and then everybody has one more round. I'm keeping track here if I'm right. On page 745, I believe, there's a list here of creating the following classifications. Chief, I want to thank you. It looks like it says police officer part-time. What is that? Because, I mean, we need, we're 45 short. So what is part-time police officer?

When we talk about part-time police officer, it's bringing back the 960s or retired annuitants. I can't pronounce the word, but I believe that's it. Yes.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

So the 960 conversation. Thank you. No, I just wanted to make sure. Thank you. I wanted to know if that's what that was. Yes.

Benjamin VazquezItem 4

I am going to follow it. Okay.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

All right. Thank you, sir, for answering my question.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

And I don't have a question anymore at this time. I think back and I'm not going to beat up beat the horse up I think that what you saw up here correct me if I'm wrong the majority wanted at this time free parking on Sunday and downtown I'm in the art walk I think that's what I heard it looks like the majority and then I'm not correct me if I'm wrong and then come back with a parking you know report and give us all the information that we requested and I know that Mayor Pro Tem brought up the county parking structure which is great but they're charging right and so it's not us charging I'm

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

really clear it's the county and I looked at it it's like a dollar an hour dollar a dollar for every 15 minutes so I mean it's it's parking but it's expensive parking so I just want to be clear the public knows it is not a city parking structure it is a county parking structure and there is yes a charge I knew it was expensive it's $15 for every 15 minutes but it's good that we have it right we can add it to the parking but it but we're gonna separate the parking and bring it back so we don't get into that situation but that's all I have for right now any other council members councilman Lopez you have one thank you I do want

Jessie LopezItem 4

clarity as to what the mayor just mentioned in terms like are we gonna be separating the subsidy that was that was talked about in pt um from the current budget or is it going to stay or is it going to come back in a report because i don't i'm not clear on that

direction um right now and then go ahead i i think we would need a motion from city council to amend the proposed ordinance so if you were to follow staff recommendation it is to introduce and conduct the first reading of the proposed ordinance okay so if city council would like to make a change to that proposed ordinance i think we need a motion and then that change will be made read into the record and then we can move on from there okay thank you for the clarity and secondly

Jessie LopezItem 4

i do want to also agree with um the mayor pertem and the mayor about uh the meet and confer with the sciu historically they have been the bargaining unit that has suffered a massive cuts and so i want to make sure that there is an open line of communication with them about any changes to the workforce designations in the budget thank you

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

i do have one final comment oh go ahead thank you madam mayor i also wanted to just

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

speak openly for my support for us to meet and confer with our bargaining groups I'm not supportive of striking and deleting the following classifications SCI you full full-time DNA coordinator SCI you full-time police fiscal officer SA you part-time special events leader SA you part-time special events leader I I need to acknowledge that this is one of the labor groups and when we had our recession in 2009 they didn't see a raise for many many years It wasn't until close to 2020 that we restored this labor organization. So I just wanted to speak openly in supporting our labor groups and supporting my colleagues in that direction.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Thank you, Councilman Hernandez. I appreciate it.

Thank you. So just to clarify, so it's not left in the records, so for lack of understanding, if I can have our new Executive Director of Human Resources, Lori, come up and clarify. We did reach out to do a meeting confer. for so just to clarify the record hi we did reach out to the unions and and provided them with the information and asked if they'd like to meet with us and we have not been able to schedule a meeting with them we met with one labor group this morning and clarified some of it and we're gonna be meeting with them again to go item by item with them let me ask you when did you reach out to me

with them when we when we submitted it to the staff um when we submitted the council um

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

when we put the staff report together so i guess for me it would be about time did you give them enough time to to meet with you you just stated that you met with one group this morning that is just for me personally i'm not speaking for the rest of council but that is not enough time so So they have made sacrifices for us, so I feel very strongly that we need to, with our unions, we need to meet with them, confer with them when we're looking at, it says, delete the following classifications. And so I'm not going to support it unless I know you have met with them and conferred with them. Right. For me, that's the bottom line.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Like when you said you met with one this morning, that's not enough time. I mean because they probably didn't I mean, I don't know well, right

Well, we submitted the document to them and asked if they would like to meet with us to go through it and they did not They did not respond with dates to submit the document when we submitted with the can you give me a staffer started city manager?

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

We'll get you a date. I mean, that's my point if you don't give people enough time I understand and I don't want to beat this up. I don't I I'm not trying to you know, right?

But I just want to be clear, did they have enough time? There has to be ample time to discuss and review and schedule a meeting. I understood. And Laurie, could you clarify? There are currently nobody in these positions, correct? That's correct. Yeah, so these are old positions that have not been used, and so they're just coming off the books. So we're not maintaining positions that aren't being used. So nobody's, nobody is, there's no current employees that are going to be affected.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

I totally understand there's nobody, there's no bodies in those positions. Right, exactly. But the funds are allocated for those positions or not? Not necessarily. But we're holding the classifications. Yes. Right. So we still need to meet in curfew. Right. And that's, for me, I'm sure everybody else up here, it's still important that we meet in curfew.

Understood.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Yes. Okay. Any other comments around this item? Councilor Hernandez, did you have anything on this item? Yeah.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 4

And just for the record, I heard our mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, them councilmember Lopez and myself so it looks like there is consistent direction from the council on meeting and conferring and ensuring that our labor groups have sufficient time to respond they're working-class people and I just want to make sure we as a city are understanding that these are our employees as well they are from bargaining groups but I would like to give them sufficient time I don't feel that being contacted the day of a day where we have to vote on this is sufficient so I'd like to see us improve and improve those practices. That's all.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Female Speaker 1 Thank you. Council Member Loza?

David PenalozaItem 4

Council Member Loza Thank you, Mayor. I just want to say that I agree with what my colleagues have already stated. When we're developing these plans and these staff reports, it's important that we engage directly with these, with our labor groups versus submitting the staff report and then reaching out for, as a heads up. So, I would agree with my colleagues there. And I have a couple other comments. Female Speaker 1 Go ahead. Council Member Loza Okay. Unrelated. Thank you, Lori.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

i'm sorry hold on like councilman i just wanted to add my voice to meet and confer please

Phil BacerraItem 4

okay thank you sir mayor mescal just to join the chorus yeah we got it yes absolutely i think we're

David PenalozaItem 4

all in agreement up here yes absolutely understood councilman thank you thank you mayor um this isn't directly related to the slides that we saw but i wanted to see if we could have a conversation about the the splash pads that are also partly unfunded I know that that and just my two cents my colleagues could agree or not but instead of having a plan to build three or four splash pads throughout the city I think we should reconsider that and look at having one holy grail of splash pads somewhere in

David PenalozaItem 4

the city or two and that way we have funding for something and and then we could see if if i mean if it works then we duplicate that but if we're shooting for for five and then we're trying to stretch pennies and then have you know five sprinklers in five different parks which is what it sounds like like i'd rather have a nice big splash pad that we could fund than stretching these out all over the place and then having subpar splash pads just my two cents in regards to that and with that said the other comments I had were

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

related to the question I'm saying just to clarify sure splash pad so you want

David PenalozaItem 4

like a water mini water park yeah why not other cities have okay I just want

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

I just wanted to clarify. Okay, thank you.

David PenalozaItem 4

Regards to the, I think that's it for now, Mayor. Thank you.

Jessie LopezItem 4

Thank you. Council Member López. Yes, I actually don't think it's that bad of idea, particularly because in the area of Madison, we're investing so much in a pool renovation,

Jessie LopezItem 4

basically campus, it looks like. And so I would be supportive of staff looking at areas like north of the city or the west of the city areas that don't have any aquatic features functions at the moment for youth and prioritize those areas and I know Portola Park is on the list so you know if if the councilmember gives us a blessing maybe that can be moved up to number one or

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

number two thank you thank you councilmember a palace I'm sorry I'm sorry, to Sarah. You guys look alike. I'm just kidding. Take that back.

Phil BacerraItem 4

No, thank you, Mayor.

Phil BacerraItem 4

Regarding, I guess, to voice my support one way or other on last time I was going to talk about parking, and that is, as far as like for now, until we get to that 60-day meeting and go from there, my support would be for something along the lines of one hour free parking up until 6 p.m. all days, and then free parking after 6 p.m. And then on the weekends, we can do what everybody's suggesting as far as Sundays and the Art Walk. So that's my thought there. So other than that, on the police budget, Kat, could you confirm? So I just want to make sure that I'm reading this correctly.

Phil BacerraItem 4

So we still have 400 authorized sworn officer positions, correct? That is correct. And so the last time I remember, we had 384 funded positions. What I saw in your presentation, you were saying that there was two that were unfunded due to the loss of the MOU at the county. Is that correct?

That's correct. The MOU paid for seven dedicated officers for the Civic Center campus. with the cancellation of that MOU, city council gave us the direction on May 16th to go with an option where we would reduce that head count because it's no longer funded, reduce that head count by two, which still leaves five remaining that can be redeployed in other areas of the city.

Phil BacerraItem 4

So just to be clear though then, so with that math, we still have 384 funded positions.

382.

Phil BacerraItem 4

I'm sorry, 382, correct. Yes. Okay. I just wanted to make sure of that because I know there had been talk of other movement and I just want to be very clear that I do not support any other defunding of the positions.

Phil BacerraItem 4

With that being said, yeah, we need to, and I'm going to ask our acting chief this. So we've had 40, or we have, I'm sorry, 45 funded vacancies. What are we doing to fill those?

Thank you for the question, Councilmember. So what we're doing right now to fill those vacancies, I've actually assigned a dedicated commander to oversee human resources where previously it was a shared responsibility with the training division commander that covered both areas. By having a dedicated commander, he can have more direct oversight over our recruitment, but also our background unit to do an assessment of where our gaps are regarding our background process. One of the things we've done is we've gone to outsource some of our backgrounds for professional staff which will free up background investigators to

continue to do backgrounds for police officers sworn positions.

Additionally, right now with our recruitment officers we have one officer who's a former Marine Corps recruiter who was also a trainer for for Marine Corps recruiters. And today I approve two officers for hire. I have three additional officers that are recruits that should be on my desk by the end of this month or beginning of next month. And we have a physical agility scheduled for 52 personnel who have signed up for it, which is our biggest amounts. We're starting to get some traction on some of our outreach with our military bases, our colleges, and also with our Explorer program

and high school programs to build a mentorship program for a pathway to public safety.

Phil BacerraItem 4

That is great news. Thank you for that. And that's key. I wanna make sure though that we're not looking to unfund any positions. I wanna make sure that we maintain. I mean, we, frankly, I think we need more than what we have, but with that being said, I appreciate that we're seeing some progress in that arena. I just wanna say, you know, none of us have talked about this out loud, at least none that I've heard. And that is, we have, according to the last point in time count that was just recently published,

Phil BacerraItem 4

871 unsheltered here in Santa Ana. That's 200 more than the city with the second most here in Orange County. And frankly, with two shelters here in Santa Ana, there's no excuse for us to have that many. So what that tells me right now is that I believe that, frankly, that there are a lot of folks who are service resistant. These aren't folks that are looking for help. These are folks that are refusing help. And I think they take advantage of the fact that we have these police staffing deficiencies. So I really appreciate what you just shared with us, Acting Chief Rodriguez.

Phil BacerraItem 4

That's great news. So I want to make sure that we continue to listen to the community because as Kat presented to us in previous budget hearings on this, crime and homelessness are the top priorities and we need to address those i'm glad that our budget is reflecting that so um let me just ask i guess at this point madam mayor if you unless you have any other comments or changes well one last thing i would just say is um i know we've talked about different numbers for the subsidy when it gets time for a motion um cat can you confirm because this is the number

Phil BacerraItem 4

i pulled from the budget is the clean and safe program for this upcoming fiscal year is the dollar amount 762,300?

Yes, sir.

Phil BacerraItem 4

I love the fact that you didn't even have to look down for it. That's awesome. So 762,300. So I would support at the right moment that we subsidize up to 762,300, knowing that the rest of that proposed subsidy we're going to be discussing in 60 days regarding how we address parking in the downtown. So thank you, Mayor.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

I just have one question I asked before. for you so just one question okay go ahead thank you Mary so that's the

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

clarification I'd like to have because we talked about parking in so many different ways and and I think the reason why we're also focused on it is that this one point almost seven million one point six five eight million dollars is a big chunk of our budget and as you can see staff has done and I know we're all like picking on different issues but you guys have done such an amazing job looking at a over 400 million dollar budget and getting all of our thoughts and the community's thoughts over you know thousands of responses and trying to you know get them together so I think that's really great but you know we're

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

looking at this number is this one is this 1.66 million right if we remove it from the budget and hold it for further discussion, is that going to prevent the clean and safe program in downtown from moving forward at all? Not at all. The water enterprise

has revenue coming in and the water enterprise has expenditures. And so for the first couple of months of the the year the water enterprise will have enough revenue and to cover its expenditures while we work out a plan with the city council going forward so i believe that you can go ahead and direct us to remove that 1.658 subsidy from the uh proposed budget ordinance to facilitate the discussion within the next 60 days or so thank you would that be okay with

Phil BacerraItem 4

you council member Sarah I made a motion yet but if you want to make it go ahead

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

yeah I would make a motion to approve the existing budget with the amendment regarding the 1.6 5 8 million dollars set it aside to hold for further discussion in 60 days. Can I just ask a question? I just have one question.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Before we, Madam Secretary, I'll turn it over to you in a second. Oh yeah, I think there was a motion and a second.

Phil BacerraItem 4

Well I was just gonna say to that motion we'd also I think per Councilmember Penalosa that we would update the CIP regarding the dog park per Director I think Director Sava's comments earlier.

Thai Viet PhanItem 4

Yes, remove ACCOC. Oh, three, yeah. Right, and also not approve the resolution regarding SEIU positions. We'll bring that back.

Phil BacerraItem 4

That. That's correct.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

So just really quick, the Prison to Employment Program, which by the way I think is great, the Prison to Employment, and that is at our workforce, correct, on Civic Center here in the corner?

Yeah.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

And so is this grant money or is this coming out of our general money?

You know what, I think I'm going to need the mic. This is grant funded money through our work center, which is part of our economic development division.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

I'm sorry, I didn't hear what you said the first time.

This is grant funded money? It is grant funded money.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

Okay, perfect. I just want to make sure. It's a great program, I know that, but I just want to make sure because I was going to say, can we get more money? But if it's grant funded, I'm good.

We will keep looking for more money.

Alvaro NuñezItem 4

please we've heard from a lot of all right thank you very much okay that's all i have so there's a motion and there's a second madam kirk did you get that can you repeat the motion please sure

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

yes so the motion that i have heard is by mayor pro tem fan i have not yet heard the second yet okay my council member penaloza sarah basara apologies it's the mayor's fault I don't know what happened today.

I don't know.

David PenalozaItem 4

I don't know that hairstyle.

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

It's Eddie. It's Eddie.

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

A motion by Mayor Pro Tem Phan, seconded by Council Member Becerra, to introduce the uncodified ordinance of the City Council of the City of Santa Ana appropriating monies to the several offices, agencies, and departments of the city for fiscal year budget period commencing July 1st, 2024, as amended to remove the allocation for ACC-OC, to remove the $1.658 million subsidy to the parking enterprise to be brought back at a future date,

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

and 60 days, okay?

Jennifer L. HallItem 4

To update the police staffing table, as noted by the finance director at the beginning of her presentation. to not approve item two, which is the resolution related to classification and compensation plan, to approve item three, which is a resolution of the City Council of the City of Santa Ana, establishing a uniform schedule of miscellaneous fees for fiscal year 24-25, to approve item four, adopting the seven-year capital improvement program as amended to update the dog park DOG PARK ALLOCATION.

Jennifer L. HallItem 5

AND APPROVING ITEM NUMBER 5, DEPOSITING $11,946,740 INTO THE SECTION 115 PENSION TRUST FUND.

Phil BacerraItem 5

MADAM ST. CLARKE, SECOND TO THE LAST ITEM, DID YOU SAY UPDATE THE CIP? BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT I HEARD DIRECTOR SALVAS SAY.

Jennifer L. HallItem 5

YES. UPDATE THE CIP RELATED TO THE DOG PARK. CORRECT.

Phil BacerraItem 5

THANK YOU.

Jennifer L. HallItem 5

YES. SO THE AMENDMENTS ARE TO THE ORDINANCE, WHICH IS ITEM 1 OF YOUR RECOMMENDED ACTION, AND ITEM 4, THE CIP, THE CAPITAL IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 1

I just want to remind the council that upon the second reading when this comes back, you can't make any significant substantive changes because if you intend to do that, you'd have to have a new first reading on the ordinance. Just as a reminder. Jennifer, can I read back what I heard?

Jessie LopezItem 1

Because I think I missed one. Okay. Remove the subscription to ACCUC, remove the workforce changes, which I think is item 2 on your list. remove and hold the 1.658 million for 60 days. The miscellaneous fees you said? Yes, approving that resolution.

Jessie LopezItem 2

It's item number three of the recommended action. Okay, approve that and then update the CAP to the dog park, which is the 4 million that the council approved earlier in the consent. Yes.

Jennifer L. HallItem 2

Did I miss anything?

Jessie LopezItem 2

Anything?

Jennifer L. HallItem 2

And then recommended action number 5, which is depositing money into the Section 115 Pension Trust Fund.

Got it.

Jennifer L. HallItem 2

So there were five recommended actions. You're approving four of the five. The one that's not being approved is the resolution related to classification and compensation, the workforce changes, the ordinance is being amended, and the CIP is being amended.

Alvaro NuñezItem 2

And the workforce is around SEIE? Yes. So that will come back to us?

Jennifer L. HallItem 2

Yes. The entire resolution is pulled at this time. Perfect. Perfect. Councillor and then Mayor Pro Tem.

David PenalozaItem 2

Just wanted to clarify, it would be reflective of the $4 million the City Council appropriated earlier today. Okay. Perfect. Thank you.

Thai Viet PhanItem 2

Mayor Pro Tem. Thank you, Mayor. Madam City Attorney, I know you had mentioned that once we approve the first reading of the ordinance, we don't make any substantive changes for the second reading. but in the future we would bring back this 1.658 million that would just be a

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 2

budget adjustment right an appropriation appropriation adjustment okay so I just

Thai Viet PhanItem 2

want to make sure everybody knows there's not gonna be two different

Alvaro NuñezItem 2

ordinances or something funny thank you don't forget to add my app translation he said six months so yes I'm not gonna bring it back but it is very I think we We all agreed on the translation of the Maasana. That'll be in the minutes.

Okay. Jack Katzen.

Alvaro NuñezItem 2

Thank you, Madam City Clerk.

Jennifer L. HallItem 2

The vote is open.

It's okay. They got it.

Jessie LopezItem 2

I know. I'm trying to think.

Alvaro NuñezItem 2

NEW SPEAKERS. DID WE VOTE? WE'RE ALL.

Jennifer L. HallItem 2

WAITING FOR ONE MORE.

Alvaro NuñezItem 2

WHO ARE WE WAITING FOR, MADAM CITY CLERK?

Jessie LopezItem 2

I THINK FOR ME, JUST BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO FIGURE OUT ABOUT THE PARKING SUBSIDY.

Alvaro NuñezItem 2

JUST TO CLARIFY, THE PARKING

Jessie LopezItem 2

WAS, IT'S. THE PARKING. YEAH, IT'S JUST ON HOLD TO BRING BACK AT A LATER DATE.

Alvaro NuñezItem 2

BUT WE ALSO SAID RIGHT NOW WE sundays and our walk no that's not part of what we discussed oh see i'm not in agreement with that that's why i asked for clarity i removed mine i mean we i think four of us had said and councilman

Jessie LopezItem 2

hernandez so five of us had said um why don't we actually do what council member becerra suggested and take can we legally separate that from i was just going to say if there was a motion on the

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 2

table and a second if you'd like to do an amendment motion just to delete that issue and then vote at least that work gets done and then you can go back to that one issue we can do

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 2

that you want to make an amendment i'll make a motion to isolate the parking issue and for us

Alvaro NuñezItem 2

to come back at a later date wait wait no i don't like currently free free downtown well he'd make

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 2

the motion first and is is there a second well actually it was the maker of the motion because right you're trying to vote on the motion that was made i just want to make sure that's clear right

Thai Viet PhanItem 2

so i i think council both the maker of the motion and the second of the motion are clear as to the uh motion and the ordinance if there is a sub motion that's fine but right now we want to ensure clean and safe continues until the item comes back not to further subsidize free parking on the two two days of the month that are very busy that people should be using anyway okay if that's the

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 2

maker that's the motion and the sub motion then you should vote on that let me ask a question

Phil BacerraItem 2

then just for clarification so to what Councilmember Lopez is bringing up so let's just say we approve the staff recommendation as is so per her question what is it that would be approved regarding like which days are free parking which days are not it's actually two different items

that you're talking about so the first item which was your motion which was included was to just put the put the subsidy on hold okay so that's talking about the budget dollars now if you separately want to make another motion to give staff direction to add some something or somehow change the current free parking structure that we have I mean structure of free parking rates that would be a separate motion to give us that direction and then we could do

that until we come back to you 60 days from now to facilitate the discussion for either for even potentially further tweaks to the direction so as of right

Phil BacerraItem 2

now before we even enter this chamber tonight what is the policy on parking and the structures

and the meters in downtown right now right now it is one hour free parking uh mayor city council it is free all day until 5 p.m and it's uh currently right now two hours free after five and that's all

Phil BacerraItem 2

seven days that's correct so for my colleagues i mean first of all not shocking that we're upside

Jessie LopezItem 2

down second of all um okay so i'll say yes just to not complicate this um with the comment that i'm voting yes because that specific item is coming back in 60 days and it's going to give

us the opportunity to further discuss and the other thing that i might add to is that if the city council gives us direction tonight to somehow change the the structure of what it is that we're doing that takes lead time because we'd have to post signs and this and that and the other thing so you know as it stands right now we have a range of times that we offer free parking and and so right now you would just be taking the action to remove the subsidy from the budget that's just budget dollars we still do exactly what we're doing today which is

what the director just mentioned and then if the City Council wishes to give us different direction in 60 days they can do that you can do that or the City Council can give us direction tonight but just keep in mind that if you give us direction tonight that it will take a little while to go into effect because of signage and noticing and things like that okay thank you I appreciate that

Jessie LopezItem 2

breakdown and because this is the first reading and no no major changes can happen it's why i wanted clarity so i voted yes and hopefully we'll have the conversation 60 days from now

Jennifer L. HallItem 2

thank you the vote is seven eyes no nays motion carries ordinance introduced as amended as well as the resolution related to fees the cip as amended and the deposit into the pension trust trust fund with the workforce changes and the parking subsidy to return.

Alvaro NuñezItem 2

Thank you. At this time, I'm going to close public hearing and we're going to go back to consent. Madam city clerk, the items that were pulled. Yes,

Jennifer L. HallItem 2

mayor. The first item that was pulled is item number 21. It was pulled by council members, Hernandez, Becerra, Penaloza, and Vasquez.

Alvaro NuñezItem 2

GO AHEAD, COUNCILMAN PENALESA.

David PenalozaItem 2

THANK YOU, MAYOR. I WILL JUST, I PULLED IT, JUST QUICK COMMENT OVER THE, I BELIEVE THAT THE CITY COUNCIL MEMBERS THAT APPOINT OR CONTRACT AIDES SHOULD BE ABLE TO DECIDE THE RATE REGARDLESS OF DEGREE

David PenalozaItem 21

OR EXPERIENCE. I THINK THAT'S, IT'S KEEPING it simple um not in agreement with the different uh duties and and amounts and whatnot so um that

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

those are my comments mayor thank you thank you um councilman becerra thank you mad mayor uh

Phil BacerraItem 21

just real quickly on that item i just had a couple of so so i agree with councilman penelope i don't want to see us restrict the aids when it comes to i guess the the proposals for some of the meticulous details i mean the whole idea of the aids is to help us not give us another task to manage right so let's keep that in mind uh so just real quickly on the agreement thank you staff for putting that together it should be a uniform agreement i don't want to repeat what we've all said before uh just some recommended changes so in section three i would recommend

Phil BacerraItem 21

that the term be uh up to one year so that way we don't because i think there was some confusion as AS TO, I'M NOT PICKING ON, BUT COUNCILMEMBER VASQUEZ HAS GOT 10 AIDES THAT GOES INTO $80 MILLION. OBVIOUSLY THAT'S NOT THE CASE, RIGHT? SO JUST SO THAT WE'RE ALL CLEAR, WE HAVE SOMETHING UNIFORMAL, HAVING AGREEMENTS THAT GO WITHIN A YEAR, I THINK THAT WILL KEEP IT CLEAN, ESPECIALLY FOR OUR FINANCE FOLKS. SUBSECTION G SHOULD READ RECEIVING ANY PAYMENT OR REIMBURSEMENT FROM A CAMPAIGN FOR A CANDIDATE for Santa Ana City Council or mayor or their campaign account. In other words,

Phil BacerraItem 21

just I think that particular section was talking about whether our aides would be employed on any campaigns. If a candidate, I'm sorry, if an aide wants to work on a congressional campaign or some other campaign, I don't think that their work here at the city would conflict with that. I'll defer to my colleagues to see if they agree. And then on section seven, for the insurance policies, what is the cost of all those because i feel like you know it's very cost prohibitive when i look at some of the aids that are assisting our our council members they don't look like the types that are

Phil BacerraItem 21

carrying million dollar insurance policies i mean no disrespect to our aids i just i don't think that's a burden that they should have to shoulder but um can i get some clarity on that particular

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

section and its intent on section seven itself yeah i think if you look at section seven we also highlighted there we included the sample language that we include for all independent contractors because we were seeking consistency across all areas but we also put in parens they're subject to revision per risk management review meaning that we might we're giving you the option of saying we don't think that the standards will work here and we'd like to refer this to risk management and let me work with the city manager and risk management to come up with more

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

appropriate provisions so that this is reading as as an option option one let us go work and we will put it in this in this sample agreement or option two adopt your standards that you apply to all

Phil BacerraItem 21

other agreements okay thank you no and i appreciate that i don't want to put the city in a libel situation but at the same time i don't want to make it prohibitive for us to bring on young folks to work for us so thank you for that the draft invoice that's attached looks like we're employing lawyers um i know i know mine has a bar card but that doesn't mean all of them do um so um i i would just say you know as i said in previous meetings we're budgeted 60 000 we set an hourly rate i think as long as they are reporting that and they are providing invoices that detail

Phil BacerraItem 21

the work that they do i think that should suffice um when i saw the 0.15 an hour i just started THINKING ABOUT LAWYERS AND THAT I DON'T WANT TO GO THERE UM AND THEN UM AS FAR AS THE GENERAL HOURLY PARAMETERS I THINK COUNCILMEMBER PENALOZA TOUCHED ON IT IN THAT I THINK WE SHOULD HAVE THE FLEXIBILITY TO SET THE HOURLY RATE UM AGAIN 60,000 IS THE BUMPERS SO WE DON'T GO OVER THAT SO HOWEVER WE WANT TO STRUCTURE WHETHER WE WANT TO HAVE MULTIPLE AIDES WE WANT TO HAVE ONE COUNCIL AID whatever that hourly is, the bumper is, don't go over $60,000 in a fiscal year.

Phil BacerraItem 21

So that's my comments on that right now. I'm willing to move the item with those

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

suggested changes. May I make a comment on the hourly rates? I think that we were not trying to control what you choose, but we were trying to control like an amount. So like either make it $10, $20, $30, $40, $50, or $60 or $70 an hour, but choose one of those and you get to choose you could amend this so that you get to choose any of those but we're trying to avoid is that you say it's 52 an hour and someone else says it's 38 an hour it's like we're just trying to get some parameters so that's clearly like within some

Phil BacerraItem 21

step or range meaning is it 10 15 20 25 or 30. but madame sanitari with all due respect i i don't know what why we would need to do that 60 000 is the cap right so if one council member wants to pay their aid more than the other that's their prerogative again the cap is 60 000 nobody is given the authority to go beyond that so i think we were just trying to be again this word

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

consistency comes out um like with all other professions what we're trying to do is make sure that these contracts look like true independent contractor contracts right and in order to do that we do have standards in the city when we hire professional engineers we have standards our professional engineers are paid anywhere between $200 an hour and $500 an hour. We hire lawyers in our city, we tell our special counsel that the City of Santa Ana on average won't pay more than $400 an hour. So we're just trying to put some, we're trying to make sure that you have some reasoned, well-reasoned numbers

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

before you and not an arbitrary number that you you think a person's worth $27 $47 an hour, but a person doing that exact same work for another council member is getting $47 an hour. That's what we're trying to do is consistency.

Phil BacerraItem 21

That's the free market. If one council member is not paying enough, then you go to another one.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

We do have purchasing rules and procedures that apply to every one of us, and so we were just trying to make sure that they apply to the council members. That's all.

Phil BacerraItem 21

No, no, and I appreciate that, and I still reiterate, I think the $60,000 helps keep us consistent and keeps us with limitations. So thank you. Councilman Hernandez.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 21

Thank you, Madam Mayor. I just wanted to share fantastic work, Sonia. I am supportive of the document. There are some areas where I am not supportive. For one, I'm really happy to see the political campaign activities. I think that, for one, the consultant is prohibited from the following political campaign activities while this agreement is in place. One, acting as a campaign treasurer slash manager. I would like to see staff included or any other official campaign position for any candidate for Santa Ana City Council or mayor. I'm supportive of the language there. I'm not supportive of item B under section five

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 21

because if any one of these campaign, let's say somebody is looking to volunteer for a campaign and somebody volunteers on a weekend, and that's their own schedule, it's their own prerogative. If they'd like to volunteer for a congressional race, a Senate race, or any one of the races that happens here at the council, I think if those boundaries are firm and clear and someone's volunteering on their own time, I don't take issue with that. But if they are an official staffer of a campaign, I do take issue with someone who is being paid by a campaign committee also being paid on public dollars.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 21

I think that that enters the area of conflict of interest, as well as potential misuse of public funds. And I wouldn't want to see our city in a position of liability like that. So I would like to see Bea struck, because I also don't want to infringe on any of these consultants' abilities to get engaged in their community politically. Although I...

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

So I don't think Bea does that, if I might, with all due respect, point that out to you. it's campaigning for any candidate at the same time that you're performing work for the city pursuant to the agreement that's that's the prohibition that's a two-part test is that while you are performing work and you're gonna submit an invoice for that work you cannot at the same time be doing campaign work that that's what that it's that is meant to prohibit not meant in any way to prohibit as someone who wants to volunteer on their own time if they want to campaign for a candidate for city council they can do that they're only prohibited from

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

doing that if they're going to charge the city for that work does that make sense that's what b does okay yeah that makes sense and it's the campaigning and charging the city for work

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 21

legal legal uh terminology the end there is the key okay that that's important um in in this case

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

You can make that clearer if you want. I can take feedback and make that clear.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 21

Yeah, I would like to see that much more clear than what it is here, because I think if I hadn't raised the question, I would have hated for a council down the line to have any issues with a consultant who comes down, who is hired by any elected. And so my concerns are in item B. I'm also in agreement with my colleagues. I sincerely do appreciate the safeguards that you've put in place, the parameters that you've created for us to hire these consultants and giving us different tiers of pay structures. But I do think I want to defer to my colleagues.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 21

If they decide to bring someone on who is going to work for their office 20 hours a week and that person is qualified and has the professional skill set for whatever it is that they're looking for, I believe that it should be the council member's discretion. If they're interviewing somebody and that person has a master's degree and they're going to be doing a policy analyst role, then that warrants significantly higher pay. So I am supportive of the tier. but I ultimately think the discretion should be left to the council members.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

Would the council feel comfortable at least putting maybe a ceiling on that so that you can say that, look, any council aid, because that's what these are, these are just council aids, that in the marketplace a council aid might make a maximum hourly rate of X, and then you can decide. I think that's what we're trying to do, because what we're trying to do is make sure, if you you spend your sixty thousand any way you want but if we don't put parameters on it is it possible that a council member says well I want to pay my eight a thousand dollars an hour I mean it's possible maybe not probable

David PenalozaItem 21

but you see what my point is I thought we made it sixty dollars no no no 60,000 total but I thought it's always been 60 or 59 we're asking you in this and in

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

these it's for you to give us that number it is 60 000. yep no the money the maximum amount that you can spend is 60 000 for your aids right what we're saying is do you have a maximum hourly rate that you would allow yourselves policing yourselves to pay per hour i always thought that that hourly

David PenalozaItem 21

rate was sixty dollars i know it was sixty thousand but i know that when we did this There were no rules. That's why we were asking you for rules.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

So if you just give me the number, then we can plug it in and say, okay, if you want to pay someone $12 an hour, you want to pay someone $45, that's fine, but can you give us direction on a maximum hourly amount? Good question.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 21

Great question. At the moment, I don't have an amount that I can identify, but I am firm on ultimately if there is going to be a criteria of tiers of funding, I think it should should certainly exist I think those parameters being in place but I ultimately think the decision should be made by the elected that's my

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

preliminary comments at the and again we're just looking for you some people understand I'm saying is like we I give up on that area of trying to put you into a box you guys can all do what you want to do but could you at least give give us a maximum hourly rate. That would be helpful.

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

Mayor Prichard.

Thai Viet PhanItem 21

Thank you. I'm fine with a maximum hourly rate. You can do $90. I mean, $100 is some attorneys, for example. But I'm fine with whatever my colleagues are. None of my aides get $100. None of them got JDs or MBAs, not yet. But so the first thing I would like to address in the contract, Madam City Attorney, you, thank you for the clarification regarding insurance and item seven. I appreciate this, the option of the risk management review, because I concur with Council Member Becerra.

Thai Viet PhanItem 21

you know my council aides are all recent college grads or current college students and they're getting experience as independent contracts to do things that they otherwise wouldn't get the opportunity to do potentially and so having a really in-depth commercial general liability insurance is going to be prohibitive of I think many if not most recent college grads or college students from doing this work. Secondly, I think the options should still be in there because it's possible that one future council member wants to engage with a consulting firm or some other firm to use them as their council aide.

Thai Viet PhanItem 21

So I think the flexibility should be left for the risk management team. I do however think that we should always have automobile liability requirements if this person is going to be driving. I cannot imagine that if you're living and working in this season if you're working in the city of santa ana uh for the the way that we need a lot of our aids to work that you would not have automobile automobile insurance so that i would like to see kept in there regarding the term i understand councilman becerra's point as to the one-year term but um i'm okay with it going to no longer than the term of the city the council

Thai Viet PhanItem 21

member who selected them i think that would just make it easier you can terminate the contract at at any time, you know it lasts until the end of their term, and that's it. That would be my position on that. As to the political campaign activity, so I actually, well first in subsection D there's a typo, it should say city council or mayor, not city council of mayor. So I've struggled with this because when this item was first brought forward, I wanted to to explore what it would mean to prohibit political campaign activities if someone happens to also be an aide.

Thai Viet PhanItem 21

And my struggle is when you have someone who's a volunteer, I definitely think that they should be able to volunteer in their own time, not while they're working as a council aide, but in their own time. My issue with that is that I know that, at least when when I was a student, I was always too poor to do things for free. I was always too poor to be an intern. So I chose to work at In-N-Out Burger instead of interning for more prestigious positions. By saying that our council aides can only work as a council aide and then work

Thai Viet PhanItem 21

for free, I think that is potentially a disservice to the very residents, at least that I try to hire to be my council aides. Two out of the three of them are Los Amigos High School graduates right here in Ward 1. To tell them that they cannot be paid as a council aide and to tell them that they cannot have other jobs that might benefit their families or their communities is kind of a concern to me, so I'm really not sure exactly how I feel about that. Similarly, I think that goes to subsection A, working as a campaign treasurer or manager.

Thai Viet PhanItem 21

I think maybe that's a more appropriate, potentially appropriate bar, just because I think campaign treasurers is actually a prohibition in other areas of not the city, but I think FPC regulations have that requirement. And the same thing with campaign manager, where it's someone who is, you know, that that is their primary obligation outside of working as a council aide. So I think for me, I think I would keep an A, but I would remove subsection G and leave it at that.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

How about if we were to say you're receiving any payment or reimbursement, or their campaign campaign account and just specifying again that it's an and so that's and we're I think what we're trying to do is this and let me just throw this policy question out here for you um we don't please all of you you please each other but even though we tell you that all the time sometimes you come to us if you have a concern about a fellow council member instead of going to one another not saying that's a criticism I'm just telling you that's our reality as staff and so

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

So we need to have some very bright lines if we're going to administer these contracts. And a bright line is you don't get involved in campaign activity. If you allow this campaign activity for them to conduct this activity, then we think what could happen is we're going to get more of those complaints like we have gotten. Like well, we saw that council aide at the campaign event. Well they can do that. They're volunteers. It's 8 p.m. at night. They're allowed to do that. That's fine. but oh we saw the council aide carrying one of the council candidates flyers

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

their campaign flyers and that's the kind of stuff that we honestly those are the kinds of things that could happen so all we're trying to do is you give us the bright lines if you don't want to have this bright line that's up to you but then know that you can't come to me and complain because we won't know what

Thai Viet PhanItem 21

to enforce thank you so for me my bright line would be campaign treasurer or campaign manager I think that those if anybody runs for office those you know the campaign treasurer you're filing your 460s that's really clear you can see it it's filed with the city of Santa Ana campaign manager is someone who is the primary contact typically other than the candidate when it comes to an election so that's also pretty clear as to and then I think with all the other stuff I'm okay with leaving in except and then removing G because in that case

Thai Viet PhanItem 21

receiving any payment or reimbursement that could be someone making you know $15 an hour knocking on doors I don't I don't think I have a problem with that and then on top of that because we're instituting this general or these hourly invoices which I've required of all of my aides since the very beginning that's the control you can see what they're doing when they're doing it how much they're getting paid per hour and um that's how you check if that's what you want to do that uh that's my comments thank you thank you councilmember vasquez thank you very much thank

Benjamin VazquezItem 21

you for this um i like the safeguards i need the guidelines i i'm usually a rule follower and if i'm not i'm protesting it right i'm gonna you're gonna know you're gonna know i'm against AGAINST IT. BUT I APPRECIATE THIS. I WILL TAKE IT MYSELF AND USE IT. I'M IN AGREEMENT WITH THE POLITICAL CAMPAIGN ACTIVITIES. IF YOU GIVE SOMEBODY A JOB, THEY NEED MORE JOBS, THERE'S OTHER PLACES TO GET A JOB BESIDES YOUR OWN CAMPAIGN. I'm a little worried about the insurance that we have, commercial general liability.

Benjamin VazquezItem 21

I'm going to agree with how Councilmember Mayor Pro Tem Fan and we should at least have auto insurance on that.

Benjamin VazquezItem 21

That's all I have. Thank you. Oh, and I don't know if nobody wants to throw out a number, but if somebody wants to expand I DON'T KNOW WHAT THE 50 AN HOUR. BUT IF SOMEBODY ELSE IS PAYING MORE THAN 50, I'LL GO WITH WHAT YOU SAY. BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO BRING ANYBODY ELSE'S WAGE DOWN.

Thai Viet PhanItem 21

I THINK I THREW OUT 90, BUT NONE OF MY AIDES MADE $90 AN HOUR.

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

I THINK IT'S A TOTAL OF $60,000 IS WHAT YOU HAVE TO USE. SO YOU WANT TO PAY THEM $5 AN HOUR, WHICH I HOPE YOU DON'T, OR YOU WANT TO PAY THEM $55 AN HOUR. IT SHOULD BE AT YOUR DISCRETION.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

I WANT TO GIVE YOU SOME CONTEXT. I have asked our chief assistant city attorney to give me some context to help you understand. When you hired your former interim city manager, his hourly rate that you paid him under the contract because the law says we can only pay him an hourly rate was $156 an hour. When you take our chief assistant city attorney's hourly rate, it's $109 an hour. So I think that's the context we were trying to give it, is putting it within the context of the existing rules for the city. So if you do have someone with a JD that has a chief assistant level of experience, that might be $109 an hour,

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

but we just don't want someone to come in and have you say we're gonna pay a council aide 150 and they just got their bachelor's degree. That's all we're trying to do.

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

But the cap is 60,000. It is. Right, so I mean, however we feel. So Council Member Lopez.

Jessie LopezItem 21

Yeah, so first on the timeframe, frame I am seeing 45 days here and I think for me that's a little too lengthy because if this is the only job that our contractors possibly can have waiting 45 days as you can imagine it's going to be difficult especially if you're going for a month to month so I would make a recommendation recommendation to bring that down to 30 days, which is what I think is the practice now.

David PenalozaItem 21

I agree with that. I agree with that as well.

Jessie LopezItem 21

Yes, I agree with that. Okay, thank you. I appreciate that.

Jessie LopezItem 21

Moving along, I do agree that we need to have a uniformed invoicing system. them. I know that my aid submits an invoice similar to this and also a time breakdown with a description. So it's two separate, I guess, sheets. So if we approve the staff recommendation, I just want to be clear, are they only now required to submit the invoice voice as as formatted here yes yes okay thank you um also I agree with Councilmember Sarah about the

Jessie LopezItem 21

high insurance costs I definitely don't want that to be a barrier to all of the council aides um from providing a service that they're being contracted and paid for and so please look into that um I don't have an opinion on the hourly rate although I think it's a great question CITY ATTORNEY AND I THINK THAT ON OUR PART, ON MY PART, I CAN DEFINITELY EXERCISE GOOD JUDGMENT. I THINK THAT THE COUNCIL MEMBERS HERE ALSO CAN DO THAT, BUT I DON'T REALLY HAVE DIRECTION FOR YOU ON THAT SPECIFIC QUESTION. AND ON SUBSECTION A, UNDER 5, UNDER THE POLITICAL

Jessie LopezItem 21

CAMPAIGN ACTIVITIES, THANK YOU FOR THE CLARITY ON SUBSECTION B BECAUSE I INTERPRETED THAT the way that also council member did so I appreciate that clarity and also I would be supportive of staff recommendations because again as you said and as you have said in the past this is coming forth because people are essentially going to staff and complaining about what they're seeing and so I guess in a sense we brought this upon ourselves and to really reduce the burden THAT IS BEING PUT ON ALL OF YOU STAFF. I'M GOING TO BE SUPPORTIVE OF THESE RECOMMENDATIONS AND I WOULD ASK THAT THE COUNCIL ADD

Jessie LopezItem 21

LANGUAGE TO SUBSECTION A JUST TO SAY ACTING AS A CAMPAIGN TREASURER, MANAGER, CONSULTANT FOR ANY CANDIDATE OF THE SAN ANA CITY COUNCIL. THAT STILL ALLOWS THEM TO WORK ON A STATE CAMPAIGN, ON A CONGRESSIONAL CAMPAIGN, ON A SCHOOL BOARD CAMPAIGN, ON A WATER BOARD CAMPAIGN, ON OTHER CAMPAIGNS. IT JUST WILL STOP, I THINK, BLURRYING THE LINES. with our council and i think it will provide clarity for taxpayers and for people that are pulling these time sheets these pras that we're getting thank you now and elisa thank you mayor

David PenalozaItem 21

i want to say i agree with the 30-day pay window so my agreement there i agree with the political not no political campaign activities for the the contracted aid and i just want to reiterate that i'm also not supportive of the that pay scale that was listed um at the end of the day you know the the acting city manager that we had previously came wasn't just getting the hourly pay there was city devices there was benefits there was a and same with us with the city attorney there's there's a car allowance there's all kinds of other pay so i think that this i've thought the whole time that

David PenalozaItem 21

was 60 000 cap and then 60 dollars an hour as the cap i will suggest that number because that's what i thought it's been the last three years or two years uh for just for uh my number that i'm throwing out there i will add uh madam city attorney something that's missing from section five political campaign activities is when this conversation first came up two years ago what I said was going to happen and why I was opposed to this program entirely exactly happened. The first contracted aide was a person running for office in the city and was, I think at the time, also a commissioner.

David PenalozaItem 21

So I think that we also need to include in these guidelines, aside from political activity, that they will not be a city commissioner, prohibited from being a city commissioner, prohibited from being a candidate for the Santa Ana City Council in any capacity and also prohibited from working for another government agency at the same time because those were things that were immediately right out the gate blurred entirely and nobody better than I so just my I would hope that if there's a motion to be made that we include that language that not only are they prohibited from campaign activity but prohibited from being a candidate

David PenalozaItem 21

for City Council themselves because that gives them a platform and an opportunity to be out there in the community at the mayor's discretion or at a council members discretion but they're also a candidate for office for for on the same governing body so motion give a motion I'll second your motion but I would so So all of the above, I agree with what's been said, but it's important that we add sections that prohibit contracted aides from running for office here. If they want to run for state senate, go ahead.

David PenalozaItem 21

But I'm saying here at the Santa Ana City Council, we need to have those prohibitions in there as well. And that is all I have for now.

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

So let me just make a couple comments. I have not yet. So I agree with the insurance. Yeah, we need to work on that, so I'm in agreement with that. The pay scale, I'm not supportive of it. I mean, it doesn't, my aide would, you know, she has 20 years of experience in the assembly, so I'm not worried about her experience. But other people have aides, like I think Mayor Pro Tem was talking about, graduated from high school or barely entering college, and pretty much it should be at the discretion of the council. We're all adults up here, and we should all be responsible for our aides and how we want to pay them.

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

I also want to ask and hopefully I get the support to run background checks on them because We don't know as a group. You know if there's Not the one is but what if somebody's a registered sex offender? I do not want them as a I don't want them in my office, or I don't want them. I'm sorry I'm not being rude or discriminatory in any way shape or form, but we should run backgrounds That it's my personal opinion because we do not know

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

Also, I think councilmen, through the invoice, I don't have a problem with it. The majority wants to vote for it. I'm good with it. The 30-day pay is good. But again, I would just say that we need to know who we're hiring or the city needs to know who we're hiring. So a background check is always a good thing. And it protects us because some of the aides are here very late at night. mine leaves when security checks in with her at 9 o'clock when she's usually working on my newsletter late at night and so she's not here at 2 or 3 in the morning but what if that person was here and they assaulted another they assaulted

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

somebody and where does the liability rest it rests with the city and so I know it sounds awful but I would highly recommend that we do background checks I I would hope that as city employees we do background checks. And do you do checks on our contractors?

Right, and employees do. For some of the contracts, depending on the work they do. But the 9 out of 10 times you have a live scan type of review. So, yes. And I think to echo the city attorney's sentiments, especially when it comes to the political campaigning, so the lines don't get blurred. So we're trying to set parameters so that if we do get complaints, we can answer easy questions, right? Depending on how we write it. So, you know, I saw so and so, and I think they were doing this inappropriate, I think the church and the city. So we have to be able to ask that question. Well, is this council a campaign treasurer? No.

Are they a campaign manager? No. Right, are they in this case a commissioner? No. So we're trying to do it in a way so that it's easy to understand and easy to investigate also, right? So we don't have to blur the parameters, right? We're talking to our board of directors or policymakers to provide the guidance so that staff then can do it in such a way where it makes it easy. It makes it easy for you. It makes it easy for us, right? That's the key sentiment. When we talk about the hourly rate, we can say hourly rate X not to exceed $5,000 a month. but even when we talk to 60,000 right the city manager has a limitation not to

exceed 50,000 right and we had to do that correction for for May and June so those are the kind of items when we talk about the hourly rate what that means because we keep saying 60,000 and you saw what happened just a month ago right we had to come back when we we've got a direction to come back and do the this contract in this stab report amendment but we had to expand literally an extra for two months because we exceeded those 50,000 city managers contract allotment so that's what we're trying to get at what we write it this way right so thank

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

you thank you and I appreciate it let me finish please really quick because I wasn't here when it was voted on and I do appreciate the parameters I have no problem with it at all but I think I'm gonna echo councilman panel also what he says you know two years ago he didn't support this there was a reason why you had you had a council aide or a mayor aide actually who made twenty six thousand dollars between March and June if he would this person would have worked a whole year would have been a hundred and four thousand dollars so I know you were gonna make the point Madison manager so I you know I'm glad

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

that we're gonna put the bumpers on it sixty thousand is the max here's the the rules a through G no campaigning no this no that no chicken fat whatever it may be insurance it sounds like we're all in agreement like it's a lot of us too much you know the invoice I don't care however you want the invoice my it's gonna do it I have the entire city I don't have a ward so I do coffee with the mayor every month I do this I do that not only is she my aide but she's my road dog she's my ride-or-die so wherever I go she's with me I spend more time with her than I do my husband and so um and no she's not out with me you know whatever I just

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

want to be really clear on my aid when I go to Sacramento she flies she pays her own way we had count we had aids that were the city was paying I didn't even know that because when I asked when I became the mayor I was told by city staff we're not paying for her traveling we're not paying for this she was told she couldn't drive me in a car she was she was given all these rules and then other council aides were their transportation was paid for to and from work which to and from city hall which i was like wow okay so they were paid um to go on conferences or go travel with with

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

the council member that they serve which i was specifically told to my face no we don't pay for her travel but you're paying for travel over here for this one so i'm really glad that we're doing this because it is about being fair and equitable everybody talks about that up here fair and inequitable so nobody should be treated differently if mayor pro tem and i'm not saying you are but if mayor pro tem's aid gets pay her conference gets paid for then everybody else's aid conference gets paid for so i'm happy we're doing this i have no problem because i know what my aid does

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

so i think i'm in agreement with there's a flat rate 60 000 there's a through g or a through h whatever we agreed to i really would like to see background checks 30 days get paid yes um and then um the pay scale doesn't matter 60 000 no matter what and i think that and prohibit sitting as a council member i mean on a commission you know whatever councilman pinalosa put out there sitting as a commissioner you said and a candidate for office that is a big deal because that you're right there was somebody who was a commissioner working for another city out of the county and

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

running for office how that worked I don't know not my business I wasn't here so I'm really glad that we're cleaning this up because we should have from the very beginning done it the right way so I'm supportive of you know what everybody has put out here pay scale prohibit the candidate for running for office or being a candidate or being city commissioner insurance ready to pay it's at our discretion how many and how much um i think mayor i mean madam city attorney got enough bumpers for you and then i just would ask for a background check i don't want to be in my office

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

and have somebody in there or have my aid in there when in the next office there's somebody who's been

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

who's registered sex offender.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

I think that'd be appropriate. We have some things that we can look at. May I ask the council this question? And I think I'm understanding better. You know, I was looking for an hourly rate. I can see that that may not, some of you agree, some of you don't agree. But might we then also just put them out per month maximum to avoid the situation that you just described, that we have a council member that is going to reward a council aide with you know $45,000 in the last three months of their tenure you know or something like that I think that's what we're trying to control for we would

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

never do that for an employee and we wouldn't do that for a contractor so what you just described is where an individual could come in in two months and make the equivalent of what would have been an hour an annual rate of 104 that's right so could we at least have a maximum per month so I think my concern

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

with that would be is that like if you have three aides it's still no matter

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

what needs to equal up to 60 000 a year right right so if we put a cap though that no aid could charge more than 5 000 a month then that would at least ensure that that sixty thousand dollars

David PenalozaItem 21

could last the whole year the whole year councilman that's what i was going to suggest that if we're not going to do an hourly cap that we do a 5 000 per month max so it's 60 000 a year year, 5,000 per month. That way it's just like the Tom, the former acting city manager. There was a cap of how many hours we just have to police ourselves and I think that's easy to do. The other thing that I was going to suggest, and I don't want my colleagues to think I'm attacking any of them, so I would even put it to make it effective next year, that for the periods of, and I know that there's an election,

David PenalozaItem 21

a dark period policy that you're working on in your office, if I remember, but I was also going to suggest that for the months of September, October, and November on an election year, that is part of the dark period where not only do we not get all these additional perks or newsletters and meetings and community staff funded, but also council aides, that would be part of the conversation, how there's a freeze on having that opportunity to have a council aide to be out at events and whatnot for those two periods at an election cycle.

David PenalozaItem 21

Again, this isn't about my colleagues today, so I would suggest it's going to affect the next election. When I'm up for reelection, go figure, I don't care. BUT THAT WOULD BE MY ALSO ADDITION TO THIS THIS ITEM

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

COUNCILMAN SARAH PLEASE GOOD

Phil BacerraItem 21

JOB THANK YOU ABOUT IT THERE I'M GOING TO I'M GOING TO BE SO BOLD AND JUST TAKE A CRACK AT MAKING A MOTION SO WE MOVE THE ITEM WE ADD BACKGROUND CHECKS WE ADD THAT THE AIDES DO NOT that they do not file for candidacy for elected office, that they do not serve as commissioners in the city of Santa Ana, that we do a maximum hourly rate of $60 per hour. We amend subsection, I'm sorry, Section 5, subsection G, keeping it but including the word, so in its entirety it would read, receiving any payment or reimbursement from a campaign

Phil BacerraItem 21

for a candidate for Santa Ana City Council or mayor or their campaign account, and then pay 30 days after invoice submitted, and then the insurance that would be subject to risk management. I think, did I capture everything, guys?

Just quickly, you said hourly rate of 60 not to exceed $5,000 per month as...

Phil BacerraItem 21

So the 60... $60,000. Yeah, the $60 an hour we get depending on the... Right. Yes.

But again, the hourly rates are different. You might work 20 hours, 50 hours.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

You get to choose the hourly rate.

No, but this is the maximum. No, I understand that.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

With a maximum of $60 per hour, not to exceed $5,000 a month. Correct. Yes.

You cover both sides.

Phil BacerraItem 21

There you go.

There you go. All right.

Phil BacerraItem 21

I'll take that.

David PenalozaItem 21

The only bullet point I didn't hear is that the contracted aid would be employed by another government agency.

Phil BacerraItem 21

Okay. Well, then I'll add that as well. So that's part of my motion.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

And we'll use the uniform invoice that was attached.

Phil BacerraItem 21

And using the invoice, let me just check it one more time.

Jessie LopezItem 21

No, I'm happy with the invoice. I just don't agree with the government agency part because sometimes people have to work two to three jobs. I mean, we get paid $12,000 a year to do this job. Most of us have to work two or three jobs, right, to make ends meet. And so I'm fine with the language. They can't be commissioners. They can't be candidates for office. I think that's more than fair that is uniform with what other cities do so I would be supportive of that terminology

Phil BacerraItem 21

How about this councilman Lopez? How about that? They can't be working for another elected official So instead of just an agency right because to your point if somebody works for a school district, right as you know A teacher something right? I don't think that would be something that we're zeroing in on here But maybe it's I think councilman Pinoza. It's more of the political nature of working for a public agency. Is that fair?

Jessie LopezItem 21

I would be supportive of very specific language saying they can't work for another elected sitting on this body. Like if you want to hire somebody that works for an assembly member or a congress member, I think that's fine.

Phil BacerraItem 21

Okay. Well, Councillor Impelloz.

David PenalozaItem 21

Yeah, I agree. So you're okay with dropping the government? Yeah, I'm okay with dropping it.

Phil BacerraItem 21

Okay, so no government agency language, right? Right. Yes. Thank you. So just those bullet points that I put in.

Jessie LopezItem 21

Yeah, and I just wanted to add, making sure that the pay is reduced to the 30 days per the length of the contract. And then to Mayor Pro Tem's point about the length of the contract being in tandem with the person that hires them, I think that's fine.

Phil BacerraItem 21

Yeah, because I didn't mention that, but I think the way that the draft is written, it leaves it open, correct? Because it's one year?

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

Yeah, I think what we wanted to do is have all the contracts reset on July 1st of every year okay or at least go through the fiscal year it's so much easier to manage because we're gonna know whether they hit the 60,000 or not and I do believe that if the council were to make this a part of their motion that you authorize and direct the city manager to sign all of these agreements for a maximum of 60,000 then we're not gonna have to come back to you and do all those things we've been doing so I'd recommend you add that yeah and then

Jessie LopezItem 21

just a a last friendly amendment um if you could add uh in under section five subsection a acting as a campaign treasurer manager um and or consultant yes thank you and then treasurer slash manager slash consultant yeah okay um because i i think anaheim does it that way too um and i'm happy to support the 5k a month if that provides parameters for south so if you look at b

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

B, it says campaigning for any candidate for Santa Ana City Council or mayor at the same time as consultant is performing. Okay, no, that's different. We're going to clean up section B.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

We're going to tighten it up anyway. But I got it. I got all these comments.

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

And the last thing I would say, Mr. Active City Manager, is that when somebody wants to call and discuss this, they are not political aides. They are not. So I don't know who from the city called them that. if in fact city staff did call them that and they should you should be the one to answer to this from a city perspective because to say it's all over the place or whatever was said I mean I take offense to that because one I wasn't here when it was voted on two I know what my aid does she's not my political aid as I indicated earlier she is my BFF and she is my ride-or-die and guess what

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

but she's also my aide and I can show you everything she has done for the mayor of this whole city, not just the ward. So when articles come out like that that say they're our political aides, I don't know who gave them that comment or they just made it up, but I think all of us can say up here they're not our political aides, unless somebody disagrees. Thank you, that's all I have to say. Are we gonna vote now?

Phil BacerraItem 21

No, no, real quick, so Mayor, so I just want clarity, because Madam City Attorney, you mentioned that you would clean up, what was it that you'd mentioned? I didn't quite catch that.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

Oh, subsection B, we're going to make it clear that it's an and, because if that language is confusing, and I heard that, that it's confusing to some, that you cannot be working on a political campaign and at the same time be getting compensation under this contract.

Phil BacerraItem 21

So just so that we're all on the same page, because I don't want to leave it ambiguous, so to be clear then, so that'll be part of the motion then, to clean up subsection B right now to say campaigning for any candidate for Santa Ana City Council or mayor and at the same time as consultants perform work okay we all

Thai Viet PhanItem 21

good my man pretend Thank You mayor so thank you for bringing up the use of the term political aid I was sent the article and I took great offense to the to I think the just the word that was taken out of thin air I did send a personal email to the reporter regarding this thing this because I think it does such a huge disservice to not only our staff but I find it offensive to me and my team because I make it very clear and you can depose any of them that we do not engage in campaign or political activity while we represent the city of

Thai Viet PhanItem 21

Santa Ana as you know in our official capacity or as council aides in fact I held that to my volunteers volunteer high schoolers because you know I take that very seriously and I think all of our council members up on here on the dais take it very seriously I can confirm that they did not tell me that anyone in City Hall used the term political aid they came up with that that term themselves based on their interpretation that because a council aide works directly with a council member, that work is inherently political. And again, I do not think that that is right.

Thai Viet PhanItem 21

I don't think it is correct. And I think that again, that is truly offensive to everybody in this room who's trying to do their best to serve our residents. On top of that, the only last thing I wanted to say regarding the agreement and the background check I fully support the background check I think I was the one who brought it up last time but I do as someone who believes in rehabilitation and as someone who believes in second chances chief you know we do background checks I hope that you have some discretion that if some 18 year old did something really dumb and they're now

Thai Viet PhanItem 21

35 and looking to be a part-time counsel aide that we look at that I know for a fact that we have city employees who are given that opportunity to show that they have their different people now of course there are hard lines right that I know we have but I just wanted to put it out there and let you use some of your best judgment when we do those types of background checks and I want to make

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

sure we're not using that I mean background check means something very different for a person who's applying to be a police officer with our city versus what we will require volunteers to do or what we might require a high schooler who's working in the Parks and Rec Department. Again, I'd like you to allow us to use our discretion in working with HR. They know what appropriate level to use, and I'm sure we've had those issues before.

Thai Viet PhanItem 21

Yes, I definitely wanted just to reiterate that, that we don't just say, oh, you had something you did 15 years ago, you're out. That's all I mean. Thank you.

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

Thank you. I don't think they would do that, so I think that's good you bring it up. Do I have a second? I'm going to go this way. He's got... Oh, did you make a motion?

Phil BacerraItem 21

No, that whole exhaustive thing was a motion. I'll second.

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

Okay.

David PenalozaItem 21

and then we have a second you have a comment yeah i need clarity on just a couple things with the background checks uh madam city attorney uh i also would hope that we're we're respectful of of time frames i don't want us to potentially one of us get somebody and it's like oh it takes three months to get a background because i could see that happening again that's why i don't want to

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

use the term background check we can do what often people are just required to go to get their fingerprints done they get their live scan okay right and i think what i would also just say as a a matter of common sense for those of you who have expired contracts. We'll work with your existing people to make sure they can get that done. We can go ahead and work on contracts and put them in place and just make it clear to them that if they don't pass those life scans, we reserve the right to terminate the contract. But we want to get this up and going for those. I know

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

a number of you have been waiting to get new contracts. So if you get this approved tonight,

David PenalozaItem 21

we'll try to get them done this week. The other point that I just wanted to make is

David PenalozaItem 21

is if, you know, I just lost my train of thought. Never mind, that's it, I guess. Female Speaker 1, Chief, you were going to say

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

something about the backgrounds or live scans, please, with your experience, expertise.

Chief Lovell, Yes, thank you, Mayor and council members. So, normally, there's a difference between a background check and a records check. And I think what the Madam City Attorney is referring to is for these positions, it would be a records check, and that is one day turnaround, except for the live scan. that's probably another couple days so this is not a typical background that you would do for

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

a police officer and thank you chief that's what i meant i use the term background you know just

by terms but you knew what i meant so but thank you to clarify on the life scan and it's not staff delaying it many times it's dependent on the volume because it's a doj with the state california right so they're the ones that give us the information but as far as staffing from the police department and they check on a routine basis daily so we can expedite thank you and just to be clear i know

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

mayor pro tem you're always concerned about the juveniles the we don't look at juvenile records

they're sealed so no but we don't ever yeah but the last count will have something and so it's not uncommon i may pretend for for the for city staff to review and evaluate based on the history whether right now and what we're doing so it's not like staff is overly rigid but again there's there's different criteria for different items in other words you know parking recreation uh you know selling ice cream in the street that kind of stuff that's exactly what i want to

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

remember and then councilman lopez you're up yes with i also don't want to i'm trying not to be

David PenalozaItem 21

back be back here in in march of next year and saying oh one aid is expected to go over 50k and i know that has to do with your signing authority madam city attorney is there a way that we could because there's a cap of 60 that we can make that exception for the city manager to just yes that's

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

what i he had included in his motion i believe because i had stated that with this motion is direction that the city manager is authorized to sign contracts for up to sixty thousand dollars

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

okay thank you so there's a motion a second go ahead can i just get clarity on the vote again because so much was added councilman but sarah and then we're going to vote i was going to say

Jennifer L. HallItem 21

yes thank you mayor and city council this is a motion by council member becerra seconded by by Mayor Pro Tem Phan to approve the item with the following amendments. To include live scan slash records checks on the selected consultants. To include language that they cannot serve as a candidate for city council or mayor in Santa Ana or as a city of Santa Ana commissioner. To include a $60 per hour pay rate, not to exceed $5,000 per month for a total of 60,000 for the year.

Phil BacerraItem 21

Real quick, that's a maximum of 60 per hour and a maximum up to $5,000 per month. Yes.

Jennifer L. HallItem 21

Okay. Maximum of $60 an hour at the discretion of the council to pay less than that, but not to exceed $5,000 per month, $60,000 per year. To amend Section 5G to specify the offices of Santa Ana City Council or Mayor, to have invoices paid within 30 days, to have the insurance reviewed by risk management for alterations, to authorize the city manager to sign and execute these agreements up to a $60,000 annual amount, to revise Section 5A

Jennifer L. HallItem 21

to include the word consultant between campaign manager and campaign treasurer, and to clarify the language in Section 5B related to and for both of the items there.

Phil BacerraItem 21

I think we got a winner.

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

Chicken dinner. Let's vote.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 21

I have a comment for my council member who made the motion. I'm looking at this document. I don't see any safeguards in place in the event that one of my colleagues, after we adopt this, brings forward somebody who we're going to execute a contract for who may be a campaign manager. And so the question is for our city attorney. If we have somebody who brings forth a contract to be executed and you ask them, is this a campaign manager or what have you, and they say no, what measures are in place to ensure that that is the truth outside of meeting us at our word?

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

Yeah, so Laura and I had briefly discussed this. We've seen in other standard contracts sometimes there's like a declaration that the individual will sign. So we talked briefly about maybe having them do that. So in addition, when they sign the contract, there might be like a declaration at the end that just says, I hereby declare that I, you know, will not accept campaign contributions while I'm on the clock. I will hereby declare that I am not going to receive compensation for performing as a campaign treasurer, consultant, or manager. And that would be the way that we do it. We've got trust. I suppose we have to trust people.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

If we then maybe later on find out that someone did receive a payment from a 460 form, then I think we'd have to notify the council member that we would reserve the right to terminate the contract as a city.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 21

Okay. Would you be willing to include that language in your motion?

Phil BacerraItem 21

I think it's already in here and it sounds like that's just procedural from Sonya, but I appreciate you bringing it up. I think what she just described, it's already addressed.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem 21

We'll address it in that way. That would be the manner that we want to address it.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 21

Just out of an abundance of caution and for the sake of transparency, I'm going to say this publicly to all of my colleagues. I'm going to look at all of your 460s, every single one of you. I'm holding myself to that standard. So if we're adopting this today, please do not be surprised if I come back at a later date pulling your guys' Form 460s to ensure that whatever it is we adopted today, we don't pull any funny business and we keep someone on staff as a consultant who is either a campaign manager for us, a treasurer, a filer, a consultant. So I want to be clear for the record. I'm holding myself to this standard.

Johnathan Ryan HernandezItem 21

I'm going to hold every single one of my colleagues to that. And so with that being said, I am looking forward to voting yes.

Jennifer L. HallItem 21

Can we vote? Yes, the vote is open.

Jennifer L. HallItem 21

Voters seven ayes, no nays. Motion carries. Item is approved as amended.

Jennifer L. HallItem 21

Mayor, the next item pulled from the consent calendar is item number 25 by Council Member Penaloza.

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

Thank you. Go ahead, Council Member Penaloza.

Alvaro NuñezItem 21

IT'S A SECOND AMENDMENT TO AGREE WITH INVOICE CLOUD.

David PenalozaItem 25

THANK YOU, MAYOR. THIS ITEM 25 IS SECOND AMENDMENT TO AGREEMENT WITH INVOICE CLOUD. I WANTED TO THANK YOU, ASSISTANT SEAN MANDOZA FOR THE INFORMATION THAT YOU PROVIDED. RECORDING STOPPED. ON THE QUESTIONS THAT I HAD REGARDING THIS ITEM.

RECORDING IN PROGRESS.

David PenalozaItem 25

OKAY.

Alvaro NuñezItem 25

OKAY, GO AHEAD.

David PenalozaItem 25

I know that back in 2020, I believe, is when we first entered into an agreement with this, or 2021. I don't recall the exact year. But part of the reason that we went with this company, and I didn't question the price tag, was because of the ability for our residents who don't have access to the Internet or to a phone or whatnot to be able to pay their water bill at a local 7-Eleven or whatnot. not. Thank you for answering why that service is still not offered or isn't offered and