Read the January 21 meeting.

Madam City Clerk, we're going to go ahead and start the closed session meeting. Do we have any speakers? We have one. I have one. Is there any other? No, no additional ones. Okay, so I'm going to call forward Mr. Tim Johnson. Welcome, sir.

Hi, good evening, Mayor Pro Tem and Council. Thank you for initiating our last City Council meeting. The litigation against three South County cities in the county is long overdue, and I appreciate you listening to us and proceeding with that. However, our job is not done yet. If you recall, there are more than just the three cities that are named in the suit, which is currently San Clemente, Dana Point, and San Juan Capistrano, as long as the county that are involved with transporting and transferring folks here to our city. And I urge you to expand that lawsuit to include all those cities,

which is what you previously reported out of closed session in doing, including some of our own central SPA cities, such as Garden Grove, Westminster, Seal Beach, Newport Beach, and and others I also encourage you to to pursue change of our municipal codes where we do not allow other cities to be able to purchase or rent a piece of property in Santa Ana and operate a shelter which currently I believe our municipal code would would allow I'm sure that's an inadvertent type item but it's something that is very important that we need to get on right away and

explore that explore that change the biggest example of folks that are of the county transporting folks and I would say probably inadvertently to to our city is with regards to the armory as we currently see it there are currently two bus stops that are folks are allowed to leave the leave the army and both those are located here in Santa Ana so if someone if I'm a homeless person say in Seal Beach and I want to seek out services at the armory I only have two choices to go to in the morning at 630 when I'm when I'm kicked out of the armory and both those are in Santa Ana contrast that to the Fullerton armory

where there are four different locations well actually there's more than four locations but there's four different cities across the northern SPA I don't understand why the county is focusing solely on on two bus stops here in Santa Anna further we also have proceeded with the litigation against MHA which MHA also has a van that shuttles from the armory to to MHA every day and that was news to me I'm not sure if it's news to you guys or not but that that might explain why we see a significant number of folks around MHA that are that seem

to be struggling with with housing issues as you guys know I am I'm all for helping helping the homeless out I want to help them I want and and it doesn't matter if it is my in my backyard but we need to do it in a manner that is consistent with keeping our neighborhoods the quality of life of our neighborhoods in sync with what you all want so I urge you to make these changes I hopefully you'll consider those in your litigation. So I appreciate it. Hopefully you've all had a chance to read my email also today. Thank you.

Thank you for your comments, Tim. Is there any other speaker cards, Madam Clerk?

No.

No other speaking cards. Okay, I'm going to close the public hearing, and we are going to recess in a closed session.

Thank you.

There's nothing on the screen, by the way.

Why don't you go ahead and stand in a moment. We're going to do the Pledge of Allegiance.

All right. Ready? Begin. I pledge allegiance to the flag of the United States of America, and to the people of the public for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice. for all wrong. Remain standing, please. We have our invocation by our police chaplain, Bob Barnett.

Lord God, we want to thank you for giving us a new year filled with all kinds of opportunities. We're asking, Lord, that you would make this year one that is so blessed, that our community would flourish in every way, shape, and form. That you would give our leadership the wisdom they need to guide us and bless our people, Lord God. We're grateful, Lord, for the people you have given us in this community and the businesses. May they flourish. And, Lord, we're with great expectation as we look into this new year. We ask, Lord God, that you would go before us.

We ask also, Lord, that you would protect those that look out for our interests. We're so grateful for the first responders, our men and women in law enforcement and the fire department, Lord God. Guard and protect them, Lord. And thank you for the people tonight, Lord, to be honored and recognized for their service to our community. Bless our mayor. Bless the city council members. In the name of the Lord, amen. You may be seated.

Mayor Pro Tem Villegas, you have the first recognition to the Olivos family for their outstanding contributions to the community.

If I could have the Olivos family join me up here.

And then, Councillor Peña-Losa, you would be next as soon as we're done with this.

I asked the mayor to join me because there's a lot of history behind this family.

Is that everyone?

Got more?

A lot of history in Santa Ana. be in the county seat. We have the first jail. We have the first courthouse. We have the first sheriff's office. And moving on, decades after that, there's some of the founding movie theaters or theaters for entertainment here in the city of Santa Ana. And one of them is the famous Yost Theater, as we know it. Something very special about that, I know that it was funny can we have you come up here and join me it was your grandfather that started it

Luis Olivos and I remember I'm originally from LA County after I left the service I came down here I got hired by the county so I've been here ever since 1989 and I met a woman from San Ana I got married and when my father came down and asked for her hand I was sitting there at the time in the couch, and I'm hoping, well, you know, here's my father's going to ask for her hand to her parents. And it turns out that my father and my soon-to-be bride's father both worked at the Yale Theater together back in the 1950s.

That conversation went great, by the way.

so that's a little personal story of mine that uh you know they were part of the the history and it was funny how they meet years and years later uh to find out that hey you know you were there too and it was your grandfather and I remember I called my dad today um to ask him to verify the stories it was like 1953 54 still he's his memory's a little off right now but uh Anyway, that is part of the story. If you could please share a little bit about your family's history and the theater,

because your grandfather was one who brought a lot of the small Hispanic businesses here in Santa Ana. They're the ones who spearheaded a lot of this. And my father, I remember him telling me today that they gave him a flashlight because there wasn't a lot of light, and he was out there bringing people into the theater and helping sell, I think it was popcorn. Not sure what it was in those days, but there's a lot, a lot of history. I'm very happy to be part of that, a little bit. Thank you to your grandfather for helping my family out.

And this is Gay Olivos, and if you could please say a few words, and thank you very much.

Good evening, my name is Gay Olivos. I am the eldest granddaughter of the Olivos family. speaking on behalf and representing my family and the 25 underneath me. But anyhow, I just wanted to acknowledge Mayor Prochran Villegas and Mr. Pulido and the rest of council for recognizing the Libos family. As a child, I grew up in the theater from sunset, from morning to end, and what I realized at the time with all this commerce that we would bring into the city of Santa Ana,

As a child, my father would put me and my cousins behind a truck, and we'd literally go pass out programs in different bodies in Santa Ana as well as Placentia, Anaheim, Fullerton. And all these people would come into the city of Santa Ana, and those people had to eat. So restaurants were opened. Those people needed a car fixed, a smuffler shop. Those people had Helen's Records right across the street. Those people needed a haircut. And I would see all these businesses grow and flourish. So I'm very proud that my grandfather always, always lended a hand to those growing businesses, an advocate for Santa Ana.

We love Santa Ana, and he wanted Santa Ana to grow. He also helped a lot of people with their immigration status. A lot of you out there that are listening tonight, my grandfather and our family helped you get your immigration status for Santa Ana. So we're grateful, we're represented here by some of our family members, not all here tonight, that finally the Olivos Army gets recognized for all the commerce that it brought into the city of Santa Ana at a time when there was adversity in the city, at a time when maybe Mexicans weren't allowed at certain places.

But he did believe in the commerce, they created a bank, Banco del Pueblo, and Santa Ana flourished. So I just want to thank everybody tonight.

Thank you very much.

I would like to ask the mayor to come forward and say a few words, and if you could present this certificate, being the ranking member of the city. Mr. Mayor, thank you.

Thank you, Mayor Pro Temp, for this recognition that you've facilitated. And let me tell you, I know especially some of the older Olivos know this, but I knew your father. I knew Mr. Olivos many years ago, and he was such a giving man. You know, you were talking about different businesses. I think even cars came into Santa Ana so we could fix their mufflers in the old days because, you know, they'd come in from all over the county, and they'd come into the Yost Theater, and I remember there was a little kid going there, and you guys had movies like Cantinflas and comedies,

and then you're artists by nature. So all the work that you've done, the awards that you've done, the plays that you've participated in, what you've done. And now as we look at the next generations, some of the really young ones, they probably don't even know what we're talking about. But they know that it's a big deal because it is a big deal. And you're a wonderful family. And I would like for you to come forward, maybe gather here, Council members if any of you went to the Yost Theater or want to come down please come down for the photo Vince I know your dad was very active

and close to Mr. Olivos in younger days so come on get closer Alfonso, Luis, everybody we've got at least four generations here I think right? We've got four generations here and you can pick see which you think which generation they're from but one thing I'll tell you, it doesn't matter. You're all Olivos, you're all beautiful, and you've all done so much for this city and for this county. It's just a real blessing to have you here. So I'm going to award this, along with Mayor Pro Tem, in recognition of your outstanding contributions to the community,

dated this 21st day of January 2010. So I'm just going to stand in the middle, maybe present it. I don't know which generation you decided to present it to, Luis. All of them? All of them? All right, let's get some photos.

Thank you.

I'm Louis Olivos Jr. My father was the owner of the Yost Theater. And all the top movie stars in Mexico appeared in person. And when we go to Mexico, boy, they used to treat us great. So once again, there's no business like show business.

And from 1960 to 1970, I was a rock and roll promoter and I had dances at the American Legion. And I hired all the top stars, rock and roll stars. And a lot of you met your husband, a lot of you met your wife at one of my dances. God bless you.

David PenalozaItem —

good evening everyone if I could please have the exceptional employees and that are part of the city of Santa Ana's 150th anniversary committee join me up here please whoever is here I know some of you aren't but whoever is here please come on forward so that we could give you the recognition you guys deserve so on October 27 2019 the city celebrated its 150th year as a city its sesquicentennial anniversary initially the planning committee was to consist of seven people however with overwhelming enthusiasm the group quickly

David PenalozaItem —

grew to 25 members including local businesses and city staff the committee successfully executed over 10 events leading up to the main event consisting of the mural a heritage museum an aerial group photo the blessing of the city which is one of my favorites a pancake breakfast fiestas patrias nocha del todis dia de los muertos room classic show people's tour in downtown Santa Anna the pool party at Memorial Park and very soon the final event the time capsule ceremony. The 150th celebration brought in approximately 4,000 people and with the help of

David PenalozaItem —

the Santa Ana Chamber over $50,000 was raised to fund the celebration. Over 50 local vendors participated in the anniversary event offering family-friendly activities and free giveaways. The entertainment provided span cultural boundaries and offered many options for our diverse community. Most importantly we all came together to celebrate this momentous occasion and honor the city in the manner in which it deserves today we recognize city staff curious entertainment the Santa Ana Chamber of Commerce and volunteers and all the Santa Ana businesses that helped make

David PenalozaItem —

this possible thank you for all your hard work and thank you for providing the opportunity for wonderful memories to be made thank you Julie I know you were front and center of a lot of the planning so thank you so much all of you guys you guys none of the events that we had to celebrate our city's birthday would have been possible without the effort of each and every one of you so from the bottom of my heart and the mayor and the City Council we thank you and congratulations you guys well-deserved recognition if any one of you want to say some some words Julie

I did write a few notes because I wanted to make sure to capture and encapsulate this whole entire experience. So, all right, we got our certificates in order. So it brings me so much happiness, and it makes me really proud to stand here with my peers. Guys, thank you for all the work that you put in, because it was because of a collective effort that we were able to execute about a dozen events, special events, within a very short amount of time. And hopefully we can continue this celebration

until October of 2020. given that the city won't turn 151 until then I do want to just highlight that

beyond dedicating so many hours every single day in every single week I really want to make sure that we highlight what's important which is team the team effort that we had amongst this group is by far the best team that I've worked with ever. Not just because they're smart, they're talented, they have so many different skill sets, but because they truly had a lot of passion. We didn't even have time to fight.

Whenever we got some comments that weren't as nice or got us down, we said, dust it off. We have things to do. And we really pushed through and we accomplished the three goals that we set out to, which was to make things festive, to honor those that, what was it, Yesenia? Honor our past and celebrate our future. But the most important one was to bring positive stories about the city of Santa Ana because so often we're portrayed in a negative light, but it's our city that has the most potential, that has the most hunger. And I am very, very proud to stand with the team here today,

and I hope that the celebration continues for more generations to come because this is a very, very vibrant city. So thank you, Christine, City Council, and especially thank you to my bosses and the bosses of the peers behind me that just kind of let us run with our ideas, let us be innovative, and let us show our best potential. Thank you to a couple other folks that aren't here, David Quintana from the City Attorney's Office, Stephanie Martinez from the finance department she made sure we did things right and to our excellent PD who not only executed a very safe 150th

anniversary but it was a time for all of us to show our best colors so thank you to the community and I hope that we get to celebrate every year maybe not like last year, but in a festive way. Thank you so much.

Thank you for honoring us.

Okay.

Next thing. Hey, all right. Thank you. Thank you.

Is that the little?

Sweet. Come on, Jose. Jose. Jose.

There we go.

City managers should be in one of these.

Yeah, it's fascinating. I miss me now, we can't breathe. All right. Let it go.

We can't get married. Thank you.

Thanks. Thanks for having me.

Is that 50? Is that 50?

So, Mr. Mayor, I guess I'm next, right? So let me go ahead and get started. If I could have Alan Gandel come up here and Pete Adamed, Jaybird, who are already on their way up here, Ken Robertson, Max Madrid, and I know we have Paul Gooman's son, Ben Gooman. So Ben, come on up. And he's representing 7-Eleven.

So who remembers Christmas? Seems like a long time ago, right? So I'm here to recognize these folks because they all helped in a really, really great effort this past Christmas. and before we go into February and the spring I thought before more time passes let's make sure we recognize some good people for what they've done but these gentlemen here represent Toys for Tots they represent 7-eleven they represent a non-profit Save Our Fields they represent Suavecito which is a homegrown product here a pomade and hair care product that we should be very proud of

because it not only originated here in Santa Ana but it continues to be here and they get catered to from all over the country and now I think it's even going global but you know we're just very proud of the work that they do and we also have our friends from 7-eleven which is a great asset as well so a little bit about why we're here and I'm going to turn it over to a couple of folks to let them explain what they do but every new every Christmas Eve in the morning we provide free food a meal and toys for families and children that are less fortunate in the downtown this started about 35 years ago when the

Santa Ana Unified School District was looking for a site to use for this effort and they didn't have one my family somehow got involved with them and said here you know we have a venue downtown go ahead and use it and they started inviting kids and it started growing you know just a few kids at first and then it ballooned to thousands of kids and thousands of families that started showing up eventually the school district moved their their efforts to the Southwest Senior Center and right now they're at Valley High School but the kids continued to come to the downtown and so we didn't know what to tell them

we couldn't tell them hey go take a bus or go walk over to someplace cross town so my parents continued buying units of toys and they eventually started partnering with St. Vincent de Paul, the Toy Collaborative, and eventually now Toys for Tots. And then we started getting folks who wanted to help, like 7-Eleven, like Suavecito, like Save Our Fields, and a lot of different efforts. We've had the Mexican consulate join us in the past to bring books for kids. So it's been a really collaborative effort, and a lot of people in the downtown also help because you see kids lined up, sometimes the night before. So, you know,

Toys and meals start being given at about 10 in the morning, but the line starts forming the night before at about 7 or 8. So they sleep over. They realize that sometimes this is the only meal of the day they're going to receive. It's the only unit of toy that they're going to receive. And when they look at all the toys available, their eyes just open up, and they just start glowing. And it's thanks to these folks in the back here. I wanted my mom to come because she's been doing it for so long. but we started calculating how many meals and how many units of toys we've given out over these 35 years.

And if you average about 1,500 to 2,000 units every year, it comes out to about over 52,000 meals and toys that we've given over these 35 years. So something to be proud of.

We can't do it without friends and supporters, and it's something that if you've never experienced a Christmas like that, I implore you to do it because, you know, it's great to be with family and it's great to receive and everything, but to give a toy to a child who may not have that opportunity is something that really does change your life, and it really is the best way to spend that holiday. So in any event, we made some new friends along the way, and one of them was Ken Robertson, who is a veteran, former Marine, who was introduced to me by Max Madrid, who is with Congressman Correa's office. I hear he's busy these days, right?

Is he doing a little bit of work over there? Okay.

But, you know, Max is a dear friend, and Pete and Jaybird and everybody up here that does so much good for the community. Al and I've known for years. They all just, you know, just give of themselves. And so when we need help, they say, well, what is it that we can do? And I know Max was in New Mexico trying to scramble around, connected me with Ken at the last moment, and Ken came up and said, look, let's get some toys, let's get some more toys over to these kids. So there was an abundance of toys this year, which is hard to do. But I know we're trying to get you guys into Santa Ana

so we can warehouse a lot of those toys for this upcoming year. So if you don't mind, Ken and Max, why don't you both come up here and tell us a little bit about what you do. Please give them a round of applause.

Thank you.

My name is Max Madrid, and I've been with Toy for Tots for over 40 years. I started when I was a baby in diapers.

Well, what happened was, you know, in the past years, we have not had that many toys. Sometimes we give half the order, and sometimes we can't really give them that much because we don't have the toys. But with this year, with the pastor here, and this coming year, and with the support of Vincent and Congress from New Korea, we're going to start earlier and try to get more toys going so you folks won't get mad at us just giving you half an order. And I can tell some of you are there because I can tell the little bitty face that you're giving me.

But the only bad part about this is that Congress of Melu Correa used to be my Santa Claus for the last 15 years, but he decided not to do it. But if you can kind of encourage him a little bit, we might be able to get him back. Go ahead. Well, we're the distribution center now, the hub. We're in the Fulton area, and we're the center OC. We want you to know that we're here for you not just during Christmas season. We're a nonprofit that works throughout the year. I'm a regional HR at Kaiser, so we don't do this for money. We do this for the communities and for the children.

We maintain a men's home that support about 42 different men, my wife and I. My wife's a medical professional at Kaiser, and I'm, again, regional HR. So we believe in giving back. We believe in sharing abundance and ensuring that it gets to people who are not just trying to serve community, but people who need it. You have to embrace that we can never do enough if we are blessed with enough. And it's hard sometimes to see the value of service, but if you don't start experiencing it, you can't pass it to the next generation so it will continue. you. So don't feel like you have to just come for toys, come for food, come for clothing.

We have volunteers from Kaiser, 17 of them who will come and give psychological counseling. We can help you get medical care. Right now we're working with the colleges to get hot meals for kids who aren't eating. So there's lots to do. We love you're getting out toys, but we love also supporting the entire community, not sections of it. There's no color, there's no age, there's no discrimination as he said I'm a former Marine Max is a Marine we we are here for you because we signed that we signed a line a long time ago to support protect and ensure the right to Liberty and will not change that it will

never change that and will always stay committed to serving this community

Thank you. some certificates from a very grateful city and very grateful children and families that received your help this past Christmas. Max and Ken if you guys

will receive this on behalf of Toys for Tots from us. Thank you sir. Alan Gandell for Save Our Field Incorporated for being our nonprofit sponsor. Thank Thank you, sir.

Suavecito Incorporated, who makes sure... These guys were the hits. So, yeah, these guys came out, and when they started showing their products off, the kids were like, forget the toys. I want some pomade for my hair. So, you know, thank you, guys. Here you go.

And then our dear friends at 7-Eleven. They're always a hit because they bring pizzas and hot dogs, man. There's nothing better than pizzas and hot dogs. So...

So let's take a quick picture and we'll wrap it up. Thank you.

councilor Jose Solorio thank you mr. mayor it's always hard following all these great recognitions but I know everybody in the room in a Senate loves tamales right so I am pleased to have up some great community leaders who some years ago they've been tracking that Placentia has a tamale festival and they said why doesn't Santana have a tamale festival right and so on December 19th last year we had our very first annual Santa Ana tamale festival in downtown Santa Ana and as I mentioned it was inspired by the economic and cultural

impact that was made at the Placentia tamale festival in prior years and it always takes just one person really to get stuff done and we have here Eddie Guiades Jr. who formed a committee to organize the event consisting of passionate community leaders and members many of that you see here today and you hear more about them and they wanted to see a positive impact in the community they also knew that there was going to be based on the demographics in the city a lot of community interest and that would help the downtown flourish and including the West End you know you know we talk about East End and West End on on 4th

Street and this event was on the on the West End it was fantastic it was the first year and my wife and I went and I know that you know let's hear as well and we enjoyed tamales we got there they're already long lines they sold out of tamales and there were multiple vendors they sold out tamales in two hours there's people that came from far away the LA TV cameras came out and there was just a lot a lot of good interest they had meat tamales they also had vegan tamales which was really good so maybe our mayor can join us next year

they had live music and activities for all ages and a very diverse crowd all enjoying you know good foods good time and good socializing and some dancing As I mentioned, it also helped activate the west part of the downtown in 4th Street, and so it was nice to see a successful event there. And I know that many of us are seeing how it's going to grow. On behalf of a very thankful city, it's my honor to recognize these individuals and to have you hear a little bit more about what they did and how they're going to do it bigger and better.

and hopefully we have a date, but no pressure. But it's my honor to invite Eric Yarez. Felicidades. Thank you.

Thank you so much.

Awesome, awesome. Good evening, everyone. Good evening. I promise you we'll have three times the amount of tamales for next year. But first and foremost, it's really not about me. It's about the people behind me. It doesn't take me. really takes a team to accomplish what we were able to accomplish on December 19th of last year but first and foremost I think mr. Solorio of council members to Laura very much thank you so much for the recognition the rest of the council I love to thank my committee that's right behind me they did a phenomenal job I have of course mr. Sam was also a board member for the

Santa business council but more importantly I have mr. Romo is a two peas in a pod with me I wouldn't be able to accomplish so much without out him and his logistics throughout the city in the downtown area. Followed by Jesse, who I call him the ninja of the night. He did a phenomenal job that night. Everywhere I looked, he was there. He was spying everywhere. Followed by Kimberly Lopez, literally. Right hand, sleepless nights. I'm not saying we were there. I'm just saying that it was a soundboard. Followed by JP, Josh. Josh, how do you see your whole last name? Exactly. I knew I had two vows, but I was off a little bit.

Josh is my social media guru anyone that saw anything on online that was because of him and then lastly also Oscar Olivares he was phenomenal great entertainment so if you were there you like the mariachi you like the trio you like the Manac cover band that was because of extension of his connections also what inspired me to have this event of course it was inspirational from the Placencia Tamale Festival which was 25 years running but I think number one so historically in the downtown Santa Ana and restaurants, they do extremely well in January, February, March, April, March, April, May, June, and July,

and then it starts kind of tittering a little bit when the OC Fair starts. And then from there on, it just drops. And then from there on, it starts picking up a little bit, supposed to at least September, October, November, and then a strong December. Unfortunately, this year, with a little bit of construction in the downtown area, that lasted a little longer than we were anticipating, which is three to four weeks. It lasted almost two months. So what does that mean for a business? 30% declines, up to 40% in the West End especially, where that construction lasted a little longer.

My other inspiration was activating the West End in downtown Sanana. And then also, one of the other inspirations was I wanted to bring another culture event into the downtown Sanana area. I think it was important to me. Piggyback on Noches de Altares and every other event that's here in the downtown area. And lastly, my mom was a huge inspiration of why I wanted to have this. I'm not from Orange County. I'm an L.A. kid from Linwood, Southgate, growing up in Downey. But my mother had a Mexican restaurant growing up, a little small one.

And I remember we always used to set up our little booth for the Southgate Parade and Southgate Fair. And we would set up the booths, everything, sell pambazos, huaraches, tacos. and my mom's motto was we're doing this which means so we can afford the rent for this month and that inspired me a lot because seeing the business owners locally and seeing it in their eyes and that same kind of pain but yet achievement throughout the night, it inspired me as well other things that I want to just tell you, a little bit of the highlights just to piggyback, we did sell our tamales within

an hour and a half period, we sold 12,000 tamales, imagine that how many little fingers it took for that right also on top of over 2,500 people in attendance that's a pretty remarkable number for the inaugural event about the mod festival so also want to thank the mod vendors I got a little right here right here miss Maria here from from I have chevitas we have a Latino Halifax is chapter one I mean I'm talking about Lindio we have a cafe cultura who are some missing guys anyone in particular I'm like I did I got a me cana and chevitas a lot of other ones and if I forget just

text me and tell me what you really think about me sorry about that also also the sponsors couldn't have had this possible without the sponsors since from the city San Unified School District individuals from this city council all right so think I would this wouldn't have been possible without you and lastly the real reason thing something that motivated me to have this event again this year, right, on December 17th, and a Pozole Festival, October 15th, right, in the downtown San Antonio area, was I spoke to someone that was at our event, and he said this was an amazing event because it was an event, not many

that I can bring my father to. It was an amazing event. I want to thank you for that. So I want to thank everyone here because it wouldn't be possible without you and all of you. Thank you very much. Have a good night and And I'm excited.

Isn't that amazing? I'm not sure if you heard it. They sold 12,000 tamales in an hour and a half in the first event ever. It's just amazing, mind-boggling. And then part, obviously, in addition to this great team, the Eddie factor. I mean, the energy that Eddie Guiatas has is just amazing. and he's obviously a leader behind this group. He happens to also own a state farm. They're on North Broadway, right? They sell insurance of all types. It's my honor to recognize Eric Iares.

Thank you so much.

Jose Roma from downtown Santa Ana and Downtown Business Inc. Thank you.

Josh Pactalunin.

Yeah.

I had to study it but you know I did okay Jesse Marquez thank you Oscar Olivares and Lindy oh and Kimberly Lopez who also happens to be with State Farm thank you thank you again let's give a big round of applause

Sam Romero, who's really a dean of the downtown as well. A couple of words, please.

Yeah, they forgot for Santa Business Council. We're the other downtown business association. And when these guys came up to us and said they're going to put it on a short time, we said, these guys are crazy. And they put it together. I couldn't believe it. Thousands and thousands of tamales. Forget about pancakes. Forget about that. Okay? Anyway, thank you.

Thank you.

All right. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you.

By the way, a little-known fact, but Jose Romo, who's now leaving, used to work at the city, and he met his wife here. She used to work at the city as well. Patty's in the back. But also he used to swim 100 and 200 butterfly for the Mexican Olympic team. So a tremendous guy. Congratulations, Jose.

All right. With that, we're going to go to a presentation.

So, Nabil, I'll go ahead and turn it over to you.

Good evening, Mayor, Mayor Pro Tem, members of the council. Nabil Sabah, Acting, Executive Director of Public Works. Tonight I will provide you with an update on pavement management and street medians in the city.

The pavement management plan or program is really used to accurately inventory all of our pavement conditions conditions to predict future pavement conditions and develop a cost-effective repair and maintenance program for the future. In addition, that program is used to meet the OCTA Orange County Transportation Authority funding eligibility.

Nabil, if you could speak up a little bit and into the mic. Great.

It is used also to meet the OCTA funding eligibility, and every two years, our streets are being assessed. Now we are going through an assessment as we speak.

In 2017, we retained ACOM, our consultant, to do a life cycle analysis of our pavement, And the conclusion was that the city really needs about $20 million a year to invest in our pavements. And here I have a diagram or a chart for you to explain the pavement condition index life and life cycle. PCI, which is pavement condition index, starts at 100 with a freshly or new street, and it degrades as time goes by.

The takeaway from this chart is we really want to capture our pavement before it degrades and costs quite a bit of money. We want it to be on the gold line and not more, which in that case, for example, it will probably cost about $1.50 per square foot to bring in our street condition from 75 to 100. We really don't want to be in the blue nor in the red because that is very costly, and the cost goes twice as much all the way to 10 times as much to do the same work.

The PCI really is a qualitative and a quantitative measure of our condition, our pavement condition. The qualitative goes from excellent, good, fair, poor, and very poor. The quantitative is really a number. It goes from 86 to 100 and so forth. If you see on that chart, on the lower part of it, on the right-hand side, our concrete street PCI is 51. Our industrial streets are 51 too. Arterial streets PCI is 73. And our residential streets PCI is 81.

The way we maintain our street is to really continually invest in our street in a periodical way. We want to put some money into the streets before they degrade. This way we save them and we spend less money and become more effective. This chart shows on how we invest into our streets every so often. That's where the $20 million a year comes in.

And this is a similar curve. It shows that if we don't invest in our streets, the $20 million becomes $27 million. And if we ignore the situation, it will be $45 million. So conditions become worse.

We see it up here, but it's not on the screen.

The Santa Ana PCI is 76. Orange County average is 79, and the state average is 65. So we are a little bit better than the state, but a little bit less than Orange County. We would like to work on that.

For pavement management, there is revenues and expenses. Our revenues come from the state of the gas tax, SB1, Measure M, Fair Share, CDBGB, some of the utilities, and some grants. Total of about $21,700,000 as revenue comes to us, but we also have expenses. Our expenses include debt service, traffic signal maintenance, median landscape expenses, road maintenance expenses, and we save some money for grant match. A total of $13 million available to us to spend.

Now keep in mind that our study showed that we need $20 million. Now there is a gap.

With the $13 million that we have, we can do two things. The salary seal maintenance, which is the gold line that we have, or the gold bar on the chart. In addition to that, we can do asphalt rehabilitation, which is the blue chart, a total of 13 million. But again, we are 7 million short, and there is a gap again. To fill the gap, we're looking for other sources of funds, like pavement impacts, grants, private-public partnership, assessment districts, and possibly the general fund.

And we also have taken measures to enhance on the delivery of paving projects by utilizing better technology, more effective technology. What have we done? In the last 40 years, I have a couple of maps there, but also the map is up on the screen there. We've done asphalt rehabilitation, concrete rehabilitation, and also slurry seal maintenance. The green is what we've mostly done in the last four years, and we've done some concrete and some asphalt too. The plan depicts what we've done in the last four years.

What we plan to do next year, or the next four years, again, same thing, more slurry seal, more concrete street rehabilitation, and asphalt street rehabilitations.

With numbers, we've spent about $7 million in the last four years on street work, 25 miles of overlay, 10 miles of concrete repairs, and 200 miles of slurry seal. We plan to spend $13 million for the next four years on overlay, concrete repairs, and also slurry seal, $13 million every year for the next seven years or so. So now shifting gears to street medians. Landscape medians were divided into three phases. The first phase is 17th Street.

We've done a pilot project right now that's been completed on 17th Street, and that's part of phase one, and we'll continue to do phase one, which is along 17th Street again. And phase two of the median retrofit and the change is throughout the entire city, and that's the blue bubbles all throughout the city. And then phase C is really the rest of the city. So in numbers, what we've done in phase A, we've done the first pilot, which was about $45,000.

That's complete. We plan to do 17th Street from Broadway to City Limit, and then 17th Street from Bristol all the way to the West City Limit. Phase B is the rest of the certain sections of the city, including McFadden, Warner, Tustin Avenue, Dyer Road, and 1st Street, and Edinger. A total amount for Phase B in terms of cost is $2,000, $40,000. And to do the entire city, which is Phase C, we estimate about $1.5 million to complete the entire retrofit of the medians in the city.

The year of completion really coincides with the work that we plan to do along with the street. If we have, for example, the $240,000 before we are taking on street work, then we would do these medians a lot sooner. And I'm open for any questions.

Any questions from Councilmembers?

Councilor Saladio. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. I know that this presentation is being made in part because Mayor Polito and I wanted to give the rest of our colleagues and the community an update on the work being done and the work necessary in the years to come. You're our water manager, but you've stepped in and are helping in the public works area as we explore a full-time filling of that post. I know we've talked about previously the earlier big street improvement programs would skip some of our concrete street neighborhoods,

like Floral Park and parts of Park Santiago, Wilshire Square, as well as some of the industrial areas. And we've skipped them over once or twice, and it really is time to go back and help in those communities. And I know tonight, based off that type of urging and request, we have major improvements, including street improvements in the Riverview West area, as well as in Floral Park on Flower Street, as well as portions of 19th Street.

And it was a very savvy way of using water funds because we needed some water improvements in those areas, as well as street improvements as a result as well. So thank you so much for pairing those two projects, and thank you to our city manager for understanding the concern and addressing it. So I'm very grateful, and we have some items tonight, but we've got to keep going because there's still a lot of need.

Sure will. Thank you. Says Councilman Iglesias.

One of the questions that I had in the bill was, and I believe Councilmember Florio touched on that, When I drive around the city, especially when I go into the industrial complexes, those streets are worse than Raitt Street. And one of the things is, I think when I asked Christine, how do we know the schedule of when you're going into those streets? because especially the ones by by Maine and Warner you know like by where the old Sears out they used to be at and where MHA is now and it's it's it's

horrible it's it you drive there it's kind of like bump bump bump and then I'm also to on on rate Street I don't maybe that's something that we're waiting on because of the right the streetcar but all of the industrial complexes and areas. Also, too, like over there by 4th Street and Grand and all that, there's also some not nice streets. So do you have a schedule on those streets and when they're going to be serviced?

We have a schedule and however the money is not available. We know what the highest priority streets that needs to be taken care of. Like I mentioned, the pavement condition index for these streets in the average is 51. That's pretty bad. So we have planned, but we are looking for funds to fix those streets. A lot of those streets require a major rehab work. It's not slurry seal and it's not just the top, I want to say two to four inches of pavement that needs to be finished, done. It needs to be going down to the base and then build

the street back up, which is really costly, but go ahead. Because of the

businesses are the ones that are bringing in all this income into our city based on what we've our past measure X isn't that something that we could allocate as a priority for us to fix those streets when is the time for us to as a council to put that as a priority Christine thank you councilmember

absolutely that is something and we're beginning to start the budget process so So that's the time to express those priorities for us. In the meantime, the staff is aggressively seeking grants so that we can increase the funding for the pavement conditions.

But just me, I believe that's something that we should already have it as part of a topic of conversation for us when we're developing the next fiscal process in our budget, that we are going to be investing so much money into the streets. because I've heard a lot of concerns from business owners that, I mean, they pay all these millions and millions of money that they're bringing in, and what do they get in return? They really don't get anything. So if we can put that as a priority, I would really appreciate it.

Absolutely, and you have, based on his presentation, I mean, each year you have set aside monies dedicated to this. So we'll continue to list that as a priority and set forth the plans. And then the other item that I did hear you mention, which we could easily do if we do start any of these street construction projects, we can help on the website, keep the public informed of when they're starting, when they're stopping, and what the impacts are to the traffic.

Yeah, that's something, yeah, because they're asked, you know, they ask, like, when is this going to be done? Because I know other cities may have, like, this is a plan, this is, you know, what it looks like. Because if we could do that as a city, that would be something good for us. Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Council Member Sarmiento, and then Mayor Proden-Villegas. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And I think it was, well, I think all of us wanted to see this report at one point or another, what we all asked. And I think you remember back when we bonded on this. I was going to bring that up in a moment. We did about 300 miles or more of residential streets that weren't covered by some of our other funding sources for major arterials. And we were doing things like emulsification, cold in place, construction, reconstruction, obviously, of some of the residential streets that were in bad shape.

But we also did a lot of slurry sealing on some of those streets that weren't failing yet, so they'd maintain a high level of performance. So one of the things I know that we did is we touched some of the neighborhoods first that hadn't been touched in years. And I think we even started in the Delhi neighborhood. We started in Logan, some of our older neighborhoods, because not only were their issues not addressed, but they had a lot of industrial and light industrial around their neighborhoods. So two things. You're seeking funding for this, obviously.

So maybe the rates are very reasonable right now, and I know a lot of other agencies have gone out. We carry very little debt, so maybe not a bad thing to work with some of our folks in our finance department to see if it's possible to even go out to bond. I think we did $60 million last time to do the 300 miles. And the second thing is just as we have a schedule, let's look at some of the ways we sequence these. Because I think that we do owe it to some of those neighborhoods that haven't had much work done on them recently to make sure that we keep them performing at a high level.

But I appreciate the discussion, but the timing may be good for us to go out to the bond market. Thank you.

Mayor Pro Temlin, I've got some comment, and then we'll continue.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. just briefly. I want to support everything that my colleagues are saying regarding addressing this issue. And I had a meeting with you this morning, Neville. You know, I get a lot of requests. This street needs to be fixed. The alleys are terrible. All the photos. They send me videos. And I try to stay on top of these things. But I learned quickly that when I joined the council in 2016, I was in a parade in Wilshire Square and somebody said, hey, what about the street? Because this car's doing this. Here I am in a parade and things jumping up and down. It was horrible. It was embarrassing. And then I went back.

I remembered. I looked at the block, which the address. I said, this street right here, we need to do something about it. And they said, okay, well, hold on. You pull out the schedule. It's four years down the road. Four years. I mean, man, I learned a lot. Went over to Public Works. You guys got this big map, and it's telling me, you know, the order in which we repair it. Of course, we want to do a good job. We just don't want a little patch up, and then I understand that. But anything we can do to address this, I'm on board, because, you know, this stuff is just unacceptable. But thank you, Bill.

I know you're doing the best you can. Mr. Mayor.

Thank you. I agree with comments right now by everybody, but in particular, Councilmember Vince Sarmiento talked about what we did in the past. And Councilmember Iglesias, part of the reason some of the industrial areas in real bad shape is because when we looked at 300 miles and what can you do, we laid out the 300 miles, and we did mainly residences that, believe it or not, were in worse shape than some of the other streets that we have right now. Nonetheless, I think the timing is very good right now that instead of limping along,

which a little bit is what we're doing here, you know, we're saying we need this and here's a schedule, we could, I think, take a bolder action, potentially go to the city manager and say come back and bring us, I'm just going to throw out a number, but maybe a $50 million bond, something of that magnitude, use Measure M2, which now has passed. Back then we were on Measure M1, now we have Measure M2. There's turnback dollars, there's monies that come to the city. If we get ahead of this curve, we can actually do more with less. We can take more of the money in a prevention

and maintain our overall streets in a better condition than we can with very high maintenance. And guess what? some of that very high maintenance is almost counterproductive. I sent some photos, and I'm going to give more to the city manager. I happened to be around Warner and Main recently, and we had a crew out there that was doing some pothole filling. And by the time they were done, the filling was way above the rest of the street, so now you almost had an inverse pothole, where instead a hole you had a bump and now when you drive you still are going up and down it's just that you're

not going in holes you're going in in potholes have been overfilled and that was a new street but look another pet peeve and i brought this to the city manager we've got to get on whoever it is octa our own contracts whoever it is drive down santa boulevard drive down broadway or main street you know they've been tearing up the streets and do some of the utility work different recently coming along Santa Boulevard from the freeway. Oh, my gosh. You know, the streets, they've been resurfaced just in the areas where they work, but the work is so shoddy that your car is at an angle.

You know, one side is high and one side is low, and there you're going along with everybody else. And, you know, it's up to us to fix this stuff. It's not up to par. And, Nabil, I think you're doing a good job with what you've presented here. But really, I think you're hearing from the council, let's bring back a plan that says we can fix, I don't know what the number is, maybe it's 150 miles, whatever the balance is that we didn't do about, I think it was maybe eight, seven years ago, something like that. And we did a lot. But right now it's time with Measure M2, we can do a bond, let's fix all the streets.

And when it comes to concrete, I suggest leave those areas that are concrete, concrete, asphalt, asphalt. But in the past, we kind of punished concrete because they weren't as bad as the really bad asphalt streets. So if you're asphalt, you've got a new street, and there's a lot of new streets around town. But if you're concrete, you've got the same street that you had before. And we've patched some of those streets, but try to look at 19th Street and Floral Park. You know, it also has, I think, a very negative impact. Once that street is redone, it's going to be beautiful.

Now, I know you're not a traffic guy, Nabil, but I think as it relates to concrete, we ought to look at some of the work that's done sometimes on freeways. They'll scrape it, and I'm talking concrete now. They'll scrape it, even it out, and relay it, and that's better than a full reconstruct. And what I would argue is that we don't need a full reconstruct in some of the concrete streets because the foundation is there. There's cracks, but they're not going way down. They're not disappearing. They're not going down an inch a year or even a millimeter a year.

But maybe we could scrape those streets and just do a brand-new street and maybe get more bang for the buck. And because it's concrete, maybe it's going to retain better. And when you look at that CPI, I know you had your curves earlier. It is very true that when you're close to 100, you're hardly spending any money. And if you catch it early because you're able to with a slurry seal or whatever, you're going to stay up there. But when you come down, oh, my gosh, now instead of $1.50 a square foot, $16 a square foot. I mean, now you've got to do a full reconstruct. And, you know, Councilor Samenta is right.

You can do a cold in place reconstruct, which we did before. You grind a street, you put everything aside, you lay it down, you add some emulsion, you level it out. It saves money. It's good for the environment. But I think we can do even better than that now. There's newer, greener technologies where there's rubber that's recycled. It goes into the street. It lowers the cost. There are also a little bit quieter streets, which is nice. Peace is nice. Quiet is nice. We already have enough noise and issues going on in town. If we can even get better pavement, better materials, we can take advantage of it all.

So if there's concurrence from the council, I don't need a vote or anything, but maybe we can encourage the city manager to come back and say, let's put together a big plan that does a lot.

I have a question.

Councilman Reglicious.

Who's going to pay for this bond? Where is the money coming from?

A measure of turnback dollars.

Well, what does that mean? Who's going to pay for it?

It's the half-cent sales tax that was passed by the voters.

So is it going to be an added tax on the residents?

No, it's not a new tax. It's a reallocation of dollars.

It's an existing funding source that you can only use for streets.

You're going to oppose it, and I'm telling you it's a good idea.

Well, there's just some things you always tell me it's a good idea, but I would have to question it. Okay, thanks. Thank you, Mayor.

Mr. Mayor, just a couple of things that did on the concrete stuff. It costs a little bit more, but also lasts much longer. And it looks great. And especially, we don't want black asphalt and concrete. We want to keep a nice look. In terms of the dollars, yeah, we don't want to create new taxation on our residents. But we could pledge Measure M turn back dollars, gas tax dollars, and I think Measure X dollars, too. You know, what I like about using Measure X dollars for one-time costs or prudent things like this, as opposed to, you know, staffing or other things that are ongoing commitments.

And, again, you know, just if our city manager can look at all these options to come back with a very robust plan. Thank you.

Thank you, Mayor and Councilmembers. I have an understanding of what you're seeking, and we'll return with that.

Thank you. Thank you. So with that, let's go on. Are we on the consent calendar now, Madam Clerk?

Yes, we are.

Do you have public comment?

Oh, I'm sorry. We have closed session reports.

Madam City Attorney, anything to report out of closed session?

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

Mayor, we do not have any reportable action for our closed session discussion this evening.

Thank you.

On the consent calendar, are there any items?

I'm going to pull item 18B, 19D, and 25I because we have speakers on those items. Any other items that council members wish to pull? Mr. Mayor? Yes, Council Member Saludio.

If that wasn't on your list, I would like to pull item 11B.

David PenalozaItem —

11B, that was one of the three items. You got it. Great, thank you. I had 11B as well and can I also pull 20B and 25F.

You got those Madam Clerk? Councilor Iglesias?

11A.

11A. Any items to my right?

I'm just a no on 19C.

19C, please report a no for Councilor Vince Sarmiento. With that I would entertain a motion on the balance of the consent calendar. Move the balance. So moved.

Phil BacerraItem —

Second.

Those in favor, plus green. So, Madam Clerk, which is our first item?

11A.

11A. Okay, I believe that was pulled by Council Member Iglesias.

Yeah, and the reason I pulled it is because I voted no the first time, and I just wanted to be consistent.

All right, so I entertain a motion on 11A.

Phil BacerraItem —

So moved.

Second. Those in favor, press green. 11B, we have a speaker.

Jeremy Kogan, please.

Good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of the City Council, City Management, staff, and guests. My name is Jeremy Kogan, and I'm the Director of Planning for the Santa Ana Unified School District. I am here tonight to share the district objects to tonight's approval of the Zoning Ordinance Amendment in Item 11B, Amending Specific Development No. 82. As has been shared, the project is a significant expansion, increasing enrollment from 270 students to 870, from 11 classrooms to 38, and from 18,000 square feet to 66,000.

This has the effect of tripling school operation at the site and does not fully utilize the California Environmental Quality Act. Quite simply, the district is asking that the city not separate the amendment from the charter school expansion, that it be aware that the charter school expansion project is a foreseeable consequence of the zoning ordinance amendment approval and follow the CEQA guidelines accordingly. As we've shared previously, the District commissioned a traffic study wherein a traffic engineering analysis found significant impacts to traffic, circulation, and safety.

The analysis is particularly important given the safety of children at the site, and we are pleased that the City staff are reviewing the report and look forward to the City responding to these concerns in a meaningful way.

Accordingly, since we've conveyed these objections in the past and other numerous times, and the Council previously rejected the item before taking it up again in December, we ask that the City first conduct the required environmental review, and until then, hold off on approval of this item.

Thank you very much for your time. Thank you for your comments. I would bring it back to Council for consideration.

Motion to approve.

this is a second reading we have a second by councilor iglesias those in favor please press green madam city clerk our next item 11b 11b 11b oh i'm sorry the one we just did oh we just

voted on that. Yes, you did. 19B. 19B. Who pulled that one?

I think it was your, I believe you have a public, is it for a public card?

I had 19D as in David. Okay, I captured D. So the other one we already approved. So it's 19D. 19D? D, D as in Daisy. Is that the? All right, so let's, we have two speakers. Tim Johnson and Keith Carpenter, I believe.

Good evening, Mayor. Good evening, Council. My name is Tim Johnson. I'm a member of the Major X Citizens Oversight Committee, although I'm not here in an official capacity with that committee, which is part of the issue that I'm bringing up before you. In this agenda item, you are going to be voting on to approve the Major X Annual Audit, the agreed upon procedure report. I would ask that you pull this from, well, you've already pulled it, but I would ask that you discuss this item with staff.

I would imagine that you have multiple questions regarding the expenditures, especially the expenditure side on Major X. And I'd ask that you ask those tough questions to our city staff so that not only you understand it, but also the residents that voluntarily voted to approve the sales tax. But also this brings about a larger concern of those on the Major X Committee. and that has to do with our official capacity to be able to come before you in an interim period to where we are able to speak on behalf of the committee.

The city does not have a process or procedure for committees and boards to come before the council and express our concerns or recommendations outside of what is originally in our charter, which right now is just one time a year. I'd ask that you suggest to the city staff or city manager to come back before you with some suggestions to be able to come up with a process for boards and commissions to be able to bring comments before you. specifically at our last meeting we unanimously voted to come before you tonight and give you a sneak peek per se of recommendations and concerns that we

have had on the committee. We have not been able to do that. The email I sent earlier today, which hopefully you've had an opportunity to review, includes multiple bullet points that that we have voted upon as a group that we were hoping to be able to speak on in a larger capacity tonight, but those are just speaking point bullets and obviously any presentation that would be made would be more expansive than those bullets but I would ask you you know ask our city manager to be able to come up with a process for boards and commissions to be able to come before you at times that is not

required in the boards and commissions charters specifically that there are multiple questions that I think you should be asking about major X the the audit report per se it's an agreed upon procedure report which I'm a CPA so if I had the questions I hopefully you have the questions and I can guarantee that the residents if they're looking at it should have the questions even though they may not even know what to ask and that's part of what I think your your council is supposed to be doing to help the citizens understand these things so I ask that you consider asking questions

tonight before before the staff thank you very much mr carpenter

good evening council my name is Keith Carpenter I'm also a member of the committee measure X committee and I'm in agreement with the Tim Johnson on his statements we were all concerned about how we're going to get our information to the council and what the council is going to give back to us and then not to us as a committee in particular but to the citizenry we had concerns about how and again I'm not speaking for the committee I'm here as an individual we had concerns about how the measure was presented to the public and where the funds actually ended up going and going forward i think it's important that the the citizenry gets

feedback on what we have recommended and hopefully my hope is that you guys will sincerely take what we recommend to heart and take action on them and that's really all i have to say thank you

thank you madam city at manager do you have any any comments um certainly staff is already

engaging in the dialogue because what we have found is a lot of your commissions they serve for a specific purpose but they aren't routinely coming back and presenting their advisory and their recommendations to this body so it's one thing that I'm brainstorming with staff on would it be twice a year would it be quarterly what would be the best it might be different based on the roles of each one of the Commission's but we are looking at to that with regards to the measure X oversight they did want to do a presentation and their presentation focuses on budget priorities so I told them that they should do the presentation

when you are considering budget priorities. Otherwise, it would just be a receive-and-file, and you wouldn't have any available means to take action on the report. So you will be receiving a report from that committee in the near future.

I would just warn that we could be setting a precedent where we have every committee and commission that the council has wanting to report to us on a regular basis. And I kind of think it's fine if they work through management and we all have representatives on that committee. they can contact us directly and move forward. So with that, this is basically a receiving file, as I understand. Councilor Iglesias?

I would like to support the comments that the two gentlemen made because, I mean, they are being the stewards of the Measure X and how the money is being presented. So it would be nice to have them present because we've given them the authority for them to represent us in this committee, for them to do a presentation to us. It doesn't have to be long. It doesn't have to be lengthy, five, ten minutes at the most. And I think we can definitely do that. And it's pretty much, too, also giving them their respects and also thanking them for being part of that committee because it takes a lot of their time, too.

So especially this one, this one's very important for us because a lot of us didn't support Measure X money, but now that it's here, we have to see how it's being spent. And then they're the ones that are charged to our residents and to our citizens for having that oversight. And then, of course, we're responsible for it, but they have the most responsibility in how this is being distributed. So for me, I would like for us to at least have them come to us at least quarterly so they can make this presentation because I believe Measure X Oversight Committee is very important for us to know as a community.

I would disagree with that. I believe we have oversight directly over those dollars. They're an advisory body. Mayor Pro Tem?

I agree with Council Member Iglesias. I know this tax measure was a very sensitive one. It's one that I supported from the beginning because I knew that this city needed the help. So if we're going to put this on the citizens, they need to know exactly where that money goes. And I would like to know just more than a report. I would like to see a presentation also. Those are my comments.

All right. So it is a receiving file. We've given comments to the manager. Is there a motion and a second?

Move data.

Those in favor, please press green. I'll second it.

What's the next item, Madam? City Clerk? 20B. 20B. I believe I have no speaker on that item that somebody must have pulled it.

David PenalozaItem —

I have to go ahead. Mr. Mayor, and this is why I was quiet on comments for that construction and street schedule repayment, because I know I had a lot to say for this item, not just in particular this item, Madam City Manager, but this is to award a construction contract to all cities engineering in the amount of $2,300,000. $99,000 for the Riverview neighborhood water main improvement project. The reason why I wanted to pull it is because I just had some construction timeline questions that have come up over the last couple of months regarding other water main projects throughout the city.

David PenalozaItem —

I'm sure Nabil knows which ones I'm talking about as well as you, Madam City Manager.

David PenalozaItem —

I there's a Thornton Park neighborhood has had a water main construction project going on since early summer and and the concern is that you know the construction has been done and then they go months without seeing any work being done on their street and it's left in disarray and bumpy and and and gravel pits and potholes and and like the mayor was talking about earlier it's it's unleveled you know not not level and it's filled with dirt and it has been like that for the last couple of months what I worry is that if is

David PenalozaItem —

this gonna go the same direction we're going with the Riverview neighborhood water main project and my question for you madam city manager and if I be able to chime in is what timelines do we give for project completions to this numerous contractors and is this the same contractor that is currently working on that Thornton Park neighborhood project I'll ask our Public Works director to

answer those two questions I believe it's a different contractor that's being awarded tonight and we are going to be take measures to make sure that these conditions do not occur. The particular projects that you're talking about had sporadic, not sporadic, but certain areas that we were working. I believe that the contractor was working in some location or another at one point of time where some of the residents didn't see him working because they probably don't drive that section of the neighborhood. But regardless, we will take

care of those issues going forward.

David PenalozaItem —

the the problem was that with this uh particular neighborhood it was brought to my attention that you'll have no parking signs posted on a certain street and it would be from let's just say January 6th through January 16th because of construction work so now you have a neighborhood that can use your street for parking but throughout that whole week nobody ever sees any city construction vehicle on the street at all. So there's no visible work being done. The street is off limits for parking. It's full of dirt.

David PenalozaItem —

You've seen pictures that I sent that have been sent to me, residents, of the work or the work that's not up to par or to standards. and I mean my question is do we have city employees that are out there inspecting the work being done at the end of the day yes we do just to caution

you is we do have four four inspectors for the entire city in addition to the streetcar project that we are continually inspecting after hours at night and so forth so we are short of inspectors and I'm going to discuss that issue with my city engineer and see if we can retain additional help for these projects to deliver quality projects like you expect.

David PenalozaItem —

Okay and the last question I had was going over through the staff report I believe on right as the Exhibit 3 20B-8 where the engineering company is fully out the proposal to win this contract, I noticed that according to what they wrote on their application, the license expiration, their contractor license expired on November 30th,

David PenalozaItem —

2019. So I want to ask if we have reached out for them to have an updated application on file. Is their contractor's license, has it been renewed? Was this a typo? Or are we awarding a contract to somebody whose contract their license has expired as of November 30th?

We will make sure that they have a valid license. I'm not sure if this is a typo or not, but I will look into it and make sure that they are licensed and they have a valid license during the work that they're doing in our city. Okay. Absolutely. And final question so we can move on.

David PenalozaItem —

With this particular project for Riverview neighborhood, do we have a timeline where they have to start and complete the work is there are we giving them hey you got you have three months to do the work are we expecting a six plus month deadline or timeline like we are with the Thorin Park neighborhood or what kind of

construction timeline do we give them we have 175 working days for them to start and finish the project 175 days after start date for them to complete the Working days. So if there is an interruption, like weather conditions where it's raining, they can't work. So those are not taken into account in their 175 days.

David PenalozaItem —

So working days, do they work weekends? I mean, because 175 days could turn into 365 days if we cut out rainy days, holidays, weekends.

Well, sometimes, you know, holidays is we can't inspect. So, you know, we don't want them to work on holidays. And during the rain, you're really – it's a hazard to work in trenches and such, and it becomes a mess when you work during rainy weather. So there is conditions that we don't allow them to work. But, however, we will make sure that they are compliant with the 175 days in this project and future projects.

David PenalozaItem —

Okay. I just wanted to point these questions out, Abil, so that we could be mindful of that we are affecting residents' day-to-day lives. And we're limiting kids from playing out on the street. We're limiting, we're having people's homes and cars filthy 24-7 for six months on end because of work that just kind of seems to linger and linger and linger without any evident work being done. I know you inherited the Public Works Department, and there's a lot of projects in the pipeline. but just moving forward I would hope that we're mindful in these strict

David PenalozaItem —

timelines for construction to limit the the amount of nuisance and to the

residents as much as we can thank you councilor says all audio thank you mr. mayor this is one of the projects I was referring to earlier we do have the floral park one after this on the consent but this is a project that's helpful to Riverview West. And again, special kudos to our city manager and water manager acting public works director Nabil Saba for taking really what was going to be a water main improvement project and making it a street improvement project as well. Because for the benefit of the community, if we're going to tear up the street once for water or sewer improvements, it really is much

more efficient and better for the taxpayer if we co-join them. The streets that we're going to be working on are 17th Street, approximately from College to English, 18th Street, 19th Street, 20th Street, you know, similar. And then the north-south ones are College Avenue to 19th Street, Lona to Almost Memory Lane, and then English up to 20th Street. I did also want to mention for the public and for my colleagues, the staff does put together on a monthly basis capital improvement project. And it has a very detailed schedule with,

you know, are we doing environmental work? Are we doing design work? Are we in construction? Are we in inspection work? And that's a good area to track these projects. And I will be tracking this one and the four park one very closely. and with that I'm very proud to move this item.

Is there a second?

Second.

Additional comment? Not press green. Next item, Madam Clerk.

25 F as in Frank.

David PenalozaItem —

Who pulled that? 25 F, Mr. Mayor, I pulled it. Go ahead. I just wanted to thank the Parks and Rec staff for moving in this direction. personally because it was a long time coming that we needed a year-round pool to service our community. For the most part, as long as I can remember, our pools have only been open during the summer. And we have a working-class community where parents are looking for areas where they could send their kids off to after school those hours between 2 to 6 before parents, I'm not saying that, this is a babysitting

David PenalozaItem —

but it's just extracurricular activities that are much needed in our community and also because we are using cannabis money to pay for it so that's also a good thing that we are using cannabis dollars to fund youth programs which I'm happy to support and just wanted to thank the Parks and Rec staff for moving forward with this uh with that said if there are any more comments i'll i'll be there a

Phil BacerraItem —

second i just like to make go ahead councilman just to echo the uh the comments from my colleague i really appreciate the fact that uh there's also going to be water polo as a program there at the pools and i know councilmember penteleza appreciates that but i appreciate the fact that because a lot of our kids their first exposure to water polo isn't until their freshman year of high school so the fact that we have this for some of our younger kids to experience at our pools I'm really appreciative as well thank you for that

those in favor please press green next item madam clerk

25 I okay this was a constituent that Lisa Okamoto please if you could come and address us

Good evening. Thank you for this opportunity to provide the public comment. My name is Lisa Okamoto. I'm a managing attorney with Immigrant Defenders Law Center. I'm here today to provide support for the Santa Ana Immigrant Removal Defense Fund. Since its inception, the Santa Ana Removal Defense Program has provided legal representation to 30 Santa Ana residents, many who have children. In fact, combining adults and children, we were able to serve 65 Santa Ana residents through this fund. In this era of increased immigration enforcement, long-time residents are being arrested and detained.

the average length of residency of our Santa Ana client is approximately nine years at least the average length at the average age is 35 years old mostly individuals from Mexico and Central America these are our neighbors family members business owners people who we see every day amongst us immigrant defenders law center work collaboratively with local community organizations and stakeholders such as Resilience Orange County, Friends of OC Detainees, Public Law Center, Catholic Charities, and the OC Justice Fund. They

have been indispensable in publicizing our services and we receive at least one referral week from these organizations. Immigrant Defenders Law Center is also part of the Los Angeles Justice Fund which provides legal orientation programs in the detention center, which serves as an access point for Santa Ana residents to receive and know about our services, even though while in detention. Our ultimate goal is to preserve due process for the most vulnerable in Santa Ana. Legal status is always ideal for our representation. However, preserving due process is our number one goal,

which also means providing the person facing deportation all the information necessary for that person to understand and make an informed decision about their life and for their family, even if that means making a decision to return and depart from the United States. This fund will allow us to ensure humanity and dignity to the residents of Santa Ana. To highlight what we have been able to accomplish, I would like to read two client stories. The names here have been changed to aliases to preserve confidentiality. Miguel is a lawful permanent resident which means a green card holder who grew

up in Santa Ana along with his parents four siblings and extended family he arrived in the United States when he was only 12 years old after graduating from high school in Santa Ana he joined his cousin and operating a landscaping business in the area after a tematic event Miguel became deeply depressed and turned to drugs his life spiraled out of control and he ended up in ice detention where he was held for six months. Miguel became clean and turned his life around. With legal advocacy from the Immigrant Defenders Law Center and support from the former City Council members Sal Tinajero and Santana building healthy

communities, Miguel won his immigration case and was allowed to stay in the United States. Next I will talk about Marissa. Marissa is another lawful permanent resident who came to the United States when she was only seven years old, along with her parents and seven siblings. All of her siblings are U.S. citizens or legal permanent residents. Marissa has five U.S. citizen children, one of whom had special needs, who range in age between 12 to 31 years old. She is a dedicated volunteer at church and participates in school activities and fundraisers. If you could please conclude. Sure.

Because of an unfortunate spree of domestic violence that she suffered, she had interaction with the criminal justice system where she pled guilty not knowing what the consequences were. Ultimately, with our legal intervention, she was able to retain her green card, reunite with her children, and return to the church community services that she has been so dedicated through her life. Thank you. Thank you.

With that, I would bring it back to counsel for consideration.

Move data.

Those in favor, please say aye. Go ahead.

I like your presentation, what you said about the two individuals that we've helped. And I know this was something that we had asked if it was only them, the ones that were going to be providing the service. My understanding is we went out for a bid, right? And they were the responsive bidder or proponent?

Yes, you're correct, Councilmember. Based on the increased amount of money that we set aside for this, we did do a competitive process. We only had two responders, and by far they were the lead responder.

And I like what they've done, but I'm wondering how much more do we track in their success in helping families here in Santa Ana? I've heard the number of 60 members that you've helped in Santa Ana, is that just them on their own, or is it collaboratively with the other ones that they mentioned, like legal aid?

Catholic Charities. I don't have the breakdown as to which groups help the specific ones, but based on your input before, we definitely, the contract is for only helping those that are

Santa Ana residents. Okay, I'm supportive of this item. I just feel that, you know, we need to have more performance-based kind of outcomes. So if we can keep tracking them at the city level, I think that's something that's going to show us are we really helping these families, and how is it that we're helping them? And also just a question of once we help those families, how do they help back? How do they help us back so we can help more families? Is there some type of, I guess, requirement or something like that? I think that would be something good, too, because it will help us help more individuals.

We certainly can track the performance and how many individuals they help and with the stories and share that information back with you. Okay, please. Thank you.

So with that, I would, oh, Councilman Solario?

Just really briefly, on that note, I actually want to thank the group and the leaders around it. They have been providing, like, annual reports on their performance and who's benefiting, and to their credit, they've done a marvelous job on focusing on Santa Ana, you know, students and parents, whereas before it was a little bit looser, so I do appreciate their work, and we just got to keep those reports coming.

Thank you. Thank you. I believe we had a motion and a second on the floor. Does it favor plus green? Next item, Madam Clerk.

55A.

Okay. This is, okay, we have a speaker. Paul Berry, come on down. This is a resolution supporting the Orange County streetcar and, you know, future extensions. Come on down, Paul.

Thank you. I'm Paul Berry. I'm a resident in Ward 2. I had the pleasure of being in a meeting with Mr. Penaloza, who had myself and Jose Trinidad from the Climate Action Campaign over, and I just want to say he runs a good meeting. So I'm here.

You came down to say that, and that's it? Yeah, that's it. All right, thank you.

Next. So at any rate, I had some things written down here. I'm not sure about the corridor study that was done on this particular item concerning the addition from the airport to basically the Disneyland area. So I don't know if there's any controversy over the actual corridor, but I want to speak in favor of it,

And I want to speak in favor of the streetcar project and a full build out of that in the context of a CCA, which is a community choice aggregation, which is similar to a municipal utility or a user owned utility. And right now I'm under the impression that the city of Irvine has sent documentation, a letter of some kind, to the city of Santa Ana concerning the CCA that they are proposing.

And I don't know if that's been addressed or if that should be agendized soon, but apparently they're asking for simply an approval to move forward with the idea that you're interested in looking at it.

there's been some talk from the city of Irvine and I was there to at a city council meeting where they specifically talked about Costa Mesa and Huntington Beach and Newport Beach as the people they want to join and if you look at this alignment of the streetcar you see Irvine Santa Ana and Garden Grove which is a little bit different access now the reason I mention this is because we are in a revolution right now in energy. We're moving towards something called distributed energy. And this is the coming together of the IT people

who can do a lot of data on all these different utility uses and generation. The financial people who realize that this is the way it's going. And then most recently, actually the extraction industries, the people who are going to provide batteries which make solar energy dispatchable when you can use it. Basically, a CCA located here could negotiate with the Department of Transportation, and we could run this streetcar. We could provide electricity from commercial-sized

solar and battery arrays to assist in these peak periods where the train stops, and then it starts up again, which creates a whole bunch of frequency response and demand response issues. So I'm hoping that the CCA will be agendized in some format soon, and if there is some discussion on the actual corridor layout, that'd be interesting, but I believe that you'll want to

move forward on this. Thank you. Thank you. I suggest we move forward on the item, but we could look at a cca not only for this but from many other potential uses here in the city to bring solar energy and to power some of these electric electric loads so with that if my colleagues

indulge me i'd like to move this item yeah mr mayor just very briefly i support the resolution but i did have a chance to speak with a couple of our merchants downtown so to the extent the conversation with octa continues with them on relief on just information on scheduling when and there's going to be interruptions in construction that takes place. I know they've been receiving flyers, but sometimes flyers don't look as official, and they get round filed, but to the extent there's more maybe personal contact.

I know we had a meeting, but maybe I think we have to have another meeting. Now it's a new year. The project's taking a new phase. Maybe give them more updated information. Madam City Manager, if you could help us coordinate that. I'd like to attend and bring an OCPA. Yeah, that'd be great.

I know some of them suffer about a 30% to 40% decrease in business. So to the extent that the landlords understand what the merchants and the renters are going through.

We can schedule something for you. Staff meets with them on a regular basis, and I actually have a meeting with them in about a week and a half as well.

Excellent. Good work. More comment? Councilor Loria?

Just a quick point. Thank you for your points, Mr. Mayor. I would also ask that our staff directly and also via OCT also speak with the folks at Eco Rapid in South LA County because the opportunity there is they have some light rail lines that also tie into the P right away. So it would be a way for us to connect from the, you know, Willowick, Garden Grove area up the P right away to LA. ultimately the you know union station a lot of other places and they've been working on that some time and I would appreciate some staff doing some work on

that thanks mr. mayor councilor he goes into the airport one step at a time but

Phil BacerraItem —

I agree to my right please go ahead thank you mr. mayor I want to echo the same comments that councilmember Sarmiento had our downtown businesses are definitely impacted by the construction. But at the same time, I hope and pray that they're able to sustain because I think that the benefits of the streetcar are going to be enormous for the city, for the region. And I'm proud of the fact that Santa Ana is putting down the first tracks. We have a proud history of having rail transit in the city. And I want to thank you, Mr. Mayor, because I know that you've had to wrestle with a lot of folks regionally.

Still wrestling.

Phil BacerraItem —

Keep this thing going. And to my colleagues that have been on the council supporting, this project. And so I support the idea of getting an extension down to the airport and down to South Bristol, where the capital city and, you know, the airport is SNA, and it should be connected to us by rail. With that, Mr. Mayor, I'd be happy to make a motion to support your... I already tried to make a

motion, but why don't you second it? I'll second it then. All right, those in favor, please press green. Next item, Madam City Clerk. Actually, I've had a request. Excuse me. If I may, 85B, Council Member Solari, I think, has this item. And I think we have some children that are associated with it, and they want to go home and do homework. But after that, we're going to get in a 2525 North Main, which I think is going to be a long meeting and probably take much of the rest of the evening. So let's do quickly 85B. I'll turn it over to Council Member Solario.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And really just to take comment, there's some representatives from the PTSO, and there are some parents and some children involved. And so just to hear their comment, and then we'll go to the rest of the item. But we'll really deliberate on 85B later in the day. Thank you.

All right, so you just want to take their testimony right now. Yes, yes. Come on down.

Thank you, Mayor and Council members. The children, which is actually one child, had to do homework, so he went to the car to go finish his homework. My son, Diego. My name is Lynn Lee. I'm the president of the Godinas Fundamental PTSO. Behind me is Lisa Tran, our past president of the PTSO.

Also, Maria Sandoval, who is also a parent, a Sagerstrom parent, and her husband. I'm going to make my comments, and then he will make his comments. We are in agreement with 85B. We think that it's a good idea to enforce anti-camping laws. We think we have lots of shelter for our homeless, so I think it would be a great idea to enforce that. adding on to that note, we're also here to urge you to take a stand against the planned homeless shelter to be built on Yale Street. As it is, Santa Ana has carried the brunt of the homeless crisis, holding over 1,000 beds,

whereas all of South County only has one county shelter of 55 beds. All cities in Orange County need to share the load and responsibility of taking care of the homeless. This shelter will transfer 425 beds from the courtyard to the Yale Street shelter. This will be a county shelter, which means cities from all over the county will be shipping their homeless population to Santa Ana. This is not equitable. In addition, this shelter is close to several schools. Mitchell Child Development Center is .7 miles away.

Mitchell serves 500 children ages birth to 5 years old with 11 special ed programs. Godinus High School is .7 miles away, which serves over 2,300 students. Valley is one mile away, which also serves over 2,000 students. Then there's Carr Intermediate, there's Carl Harvey Elementary, McFadden Intermediate, Sagersham, all within close vicinity of the shelter. Our kids are walking to school, walking home. Diego walks from Godinas to Valley every day to the NAC.

It is bad enough that our youth do not feel safe walking through Centennial Park. There is between 2 to 10 homeless sleeping in the park every night. Adding a homeless shelter will compound the safety issues for our youth in our community. I am not against helping the homeless, but let's share the burden. let's address this in an equitable balanced manner it is important that the city be a part of the planning and formation for example if it must be built let's make it only for women and children or for families maybe we make it only for Santa Ana families and only our residents also 425 beds is too many

this number needs to be reduced to 200 beds 400 425 is just unmanageable so So please, represent us residents and speak loudly the need for other cities carrying their fair share or to meet our conditions.

For those of you in the public, please attend the next Orange County Board of Supervisors meeting next Tuesday, January 28th, at 9 30 a.m. thank you

good evening mayor council members residents of Santa Ana my name is Jose Sandoval I'm a resident of Santa Ana served over 26 years in the military and every time I come home on leave be proud of proud proud of Santa Ana but every time I come you know it keeps getting worse I live 1.5 miles from Centennial Park I went to walk the valley my daughter's a student at Sigurdsson High School I'm here to petition your support last Tuesday we talked to Sanana Unified School District and they're gonna support us we're having a meeting tomorrow on Thursday at 6 o'clock at Godinas to address this

issue like like Lynn said Ms. Loyal said there's over eight schools they're gonna to be affected by this homeless shelter. There's already seven of these locations throughout Santa Ana with over a thousand beds. You know we have over 18 dispensaries. There's three next to this proposed site on Yale. So yeah I get it there's a homeless issue but throughout Orange County why is the county putting in Santa Ana? They had an opportunity in Irvine they said no. Why can't we say no? I'm here to petition your support and getting them out.

Like I said, I grew up in the neighborhood with gangs, drugs. Now you're going to add the homeless factor. So when they get out, let's not go too far down the streets, the courthouse. We camped out. What was that like? We all know what that was like. What a jury duty walking through feces, urine, needles. Now our children can't even go to Santa Clara Park. Why? Because you don't know what's going to happen. You know, I have a son that goes to college and he takes a train. He almost got assaulted. It wasn't for a good humanitarian that stepped in. Why a homeless man? Mental health state, who knows?

The MHA on Main Street, down the street from the Armory. I think it's Monroe. You have Esquivel on Main. Esqueda. They go there during the day and they're out at night. During the day and they're out at night. This is the same thing with this proposed shelter. they're going to go there at night and where they're going to hang out the dispensaries our schools so now you know i want to know who i'm going to hold responsible as a taxpayer and as ready to send anna i'm holding you guys accountable for the safety of our children you know san anna

like i said san anna unified is already supporting us on this measure because it's it's not just the san anna school district responsibility to provide that education for our children, but also their safety, as well as Measure X dollars to protect our safety of ourselves and our children. So with that being said, thank you for your time, Mayor, and I hope you guys get behind Senator Reddins. Thank you. Thank you.

So, Councilman Solario, we'll bring it back then. Yeah, we'll bring it back for Delano Operation later. So right now we're going to go ahead and get into item number 68, which is a second reading on the project known as 2525 North Main Street. And we have a few speakers. Let's start with Brian P-O-T-E-R-A-J, I believe, and Dimitri Lujan afterwards. Please go ahead, Brian.

This may be the second reading. I think this is my fourth time in front of the council or the planning commission. I just want to take this opportunity to ask you not to vote for the rezoning. It's putting too many units in our neighborhood. It's an old historic neighborhood. It's a place where people love to live. You put in that many apartments in the neighborhood, people are going to move out. People are going to leave. Value of the property is going to go down. The taxpayers are going to leave. All these great things we want to do for the city, you're not going to be able to fund anymore.

So I don't have a lot to say. I wasn't expecting to be the first. I'm glad I am. But I implore you, please vote against this. You have the opportunity to keep our neighborhood historic.

And it's rated as a business building. Keep it as a business because we have a thousand plus units going up in the area. Where are they going to work? They have to commute. They have to ruin the roads that the Planning Commission, this guy over here said, we have to fix. We don't have the money to fix it. It's four years until the road gets fixed. We're putting in all these people with no place to work except outside of Santa Ana. So keep it the way it is zoned and I hope you do the right thing. Thank you.

Thank you, Brian.

Dimitri Lujan.

Good evening, Council members. Yeah, I ride a bike, and I believe we could use some street work in our block. The medians, there's a lot of work getting done on them. I don't drive on them. But I live in San Diego Park, and I oppose this project. The traffic, it's not zoned for apartments. Construction, the noise, pollution. for a timeline of six years when currently correctly zoned apartments are being built. It's right around the corner, almost halfway, if not more than that, a year into the works. They're getting done in two years. I don't know where this six years is coming from.

We now have a dark money developer wanting to use his connections to take advantage of our city. He cannot build in his own city that he lives in. there's laws which forbid giving money for favors, which we don't happen to have in our city. We look to our city councilman, Mr. Solerio, to represent the people who voted him into the office. We are against this project, yet he favors this project when it was even at over 500 units.

The developer and partners with top city planners misled the planning commission, the residents, and the city council about traffic, building site, height, parking. Every time we meet, they changed new plans, handed out documents in file we found last meeting, incorrect addresses. They stood here and lied. when questions we still do not have the you know the clear entrance or fire lanes not a word of objection no questions from our council member

Solerio yet last meeting 11b charter school development we just spoke about earlier he was very adamant about the person that was building this work he He was angry at the developer for not having exact numbers of students. To correct it was like he was holding up to the number of students from 900, I think it was 875, the guy. What is it? Get it correct? Not yet one word question directed at the 2525 Main Street developer. It was Council Member Ms. Iglesias who was upset over incorrect, misapplied information, wrong documents in the file.

what else is this project incorrectly? I believe she canceled the meeting, we voted on it, and she was going to negotiate some numbers with our developer. That's all I have to say.

Thank you, Christine Helwig, followed by Miguel Ortiz.

Good evening, Councilmembers. A few weeks ago, I made a claim that the developer's real plan number of units for 2525 was 272, as shown in the Concord Group's economic analysis report. I was incorrect. The 2525 Main Street referred to in the report was the name of a development in Irvine which is under construction and actually located at 17600 Cartwright Street. I saw 2525 Main, and I mistook it for our 2525 Main. For that mistake, I apologize to all here and my neighbors.

Some may intimate that I did this on purpose to cause confusion and a delay in the vote, but I assure you that causing others to question my integrity and standing here apologizing publicly at a City Council meeting has never been on my bucket list. I believe the 25-25 proposal remains inappropriate for the location. Why the City Council would vote to exacerbate rather than mitigate the impacts of massive increases in population and a redesigned unsafe intersection within a small half-mile area is beyond me. Increased cube exhibit space will drive increased attendance and parking requirements.

At what point will the only option be to go up with stacked parking at 2525? Some have quoted high commercial real estate vacancy rates in the area, often in the 11 to 13 percent range, as a reason for rezoning. Voightworks, an Orange County commercial real estate advisory firm, in its January 2020 report analyzing 2019 results in Orange County, states, quote, North Orange County posted the lowest vacancy rate at 7.17%. JLL, another commercial real estate advisory company, quotes in its 2020 OC report,

Tech companies and medical companies are leading the leasing activity in mid-rise office space. These companies are expanding and leading demand in general in the market, and they gravitate toward mid-rise and low-rise assets. This is the exact workforce that can afford the new market rate apartments. Some of you discount the level of constituent participation across the city against this proposal as no longer applicable, no matter how many people continue to show up and or write.

I submit that the most applicable survey of the city's residents is that which is taken by vote. Tonight, you have the opportunity to support an initiative on this issue to do just that, to allow the democratic process to decide without burdening your constituents with having to get yet one more round of signatures. If you are confident that you are representing your constituents today, you will approve the initiative and look forward to this vote as reaffirming your position. If you are not, you will effectively throw down the gauntlet at your constituents' feet,

forcing them to expend the effort to gather the required number of signatures, which they will. The choice and responsibility is yours. Thank you for your patience and consideration.

Miguel Ortiz.

Thank you. This is my fourth time coming to oppose 2525, and in the previous meetings I voiced my opposition. I asked you to put yourselves in our shoes. Would you really want a high-density apartment back in your single-house neighborhood? I also pointed out several items that I believe that this project should not get opposed. So today I'm going to try something a little bit different. Today I'm going to ask you to let us vote. Let the residents of the city of Santa Ana take a vote and really hear their voice.

Mr. Councilman Sarmiento, Councilman Penalosa, when you guys voted in favor of this project, you guys made a comment that said that, you know, you wish that we would have shown support to your community, your ward, when you had a similar development going up. And to that I say, we have done that for two years for this project, and yet you guys voted to approve it. But today, I'm asking you to let us vote. So let us do what you told us to do and let the citizens voice their opinion across Santa Ana to see if they support this project or not.

Mr. Solorio, I met you during the Sunshine meeting and I asked you for your support. And you pretty much said that we'll see what happens. In the last two years, a majority of the speakers that have come here have voiced their opposition, which are in your ward, and yet every single time that there seems to go in our favor, you bring out a nugget where, hey, why don't we do this to try to save the project? Why don't we add this? so it's kind of confusing that the majority of the speakers that have come here are opposing it

and you're still in favor and approving the developer. You say you walk the streets and you talk to residents in our neighborhood and that a lot of them are for it, right? So today I ask you, let us vote. Let the city of Santa Ana, our neighborhood, take a vote and really see if that's true or not. so I please urge you to do that Council you know, Councilwoman Mignola says she's not here but same thing, you know, she says she walked the neighborhood and everybody seems to be in favor of it so same thing, you know, let us vote so that's all I had to say I oppose this project and hopefully we can take this to a vote and

you know, really see what the residents of the city of Santa Ana feel about this project

Thank you, Miguel

applause applause applause

Thank you, Miguel. Now we have Ed Murashi, followed by Ellen Calnaway.

And then Rory Kirk.

Good evening, Mayor, City Council, City Manager, City Attorney, and staff. My name is Ed Marashi and I'm president of the Floral Park Neighborhood Association. Again, I represent 650 homes and the board, and we have not wavered in our opposition to this project because of spot zoning, the density, traffic, and safety. And so we ask you again tonight to vote for opposing it. If that, barring that, then we request that you send it to the voters and let true democracy play out.

Also, out of respect for all the countless people behind me that have shown up every single one of these meetings and opposed it ever since. Thank you very much.

Thank you. Ellen, followed by Rory Kurt.

Good evening, Mayor and Council Members. I'm Mrs. Ellen Calderway. I'm your constituent, and I'm a Santa Ana voter. Tonight, I'd like to ask you to vote against the adoption of the Zoning Amendment and Development Agreement. The Addington is a good project in the wrong location. If necessary, reconsider your support. But even if you still support the project, please don't vote tonight to adopt the ordinances. Instead, send them to us, the voters, to decide in a citywide election. This wouldn't be asking you to withdraw your support of the project.

This is asking you to use your authority to find out what the voters think and to let the voters decide whether to build this. Please, don't act on unverified or partial information. After two years, after two years of public discussion, there seems to still be doubt about how much and how intense constituent opposition or support there is for this project. The way to settle this uncertainty and move on is to send the measure to the voters.

A ballot initiative will provide you with an accurate and reliable survey of whether your constituents support or oppose the Addison. Now, in public meetings, we've heard from hundreds of people, hundreds of people, but unfortunately there have been questions about the quality of the public discussion. Have neighbors been intimidated? Have they been bullied? Have we been paid? Am I just a member of a small group of people who really don't care about the city as a whole? Well, let's just assume for a minute that some of these concerns may be valid.

If you, and I wish Ms. Inglasius were here, because this is something I know that is very, I say that in all sincerity because I know this is something that she particularly has expressed a concern about. Let's just assume some of these concerns are invalid. and that you're concerned that those of us who speak about this project against it don't represent the will of your constituents in the best interest of the entire community. I implore you to submit the proposed ordinances directly to the voters so that we can at least reach a consensus of what the people of this city really think.

And after all this, you see, I still am convinced that your constituents, my neighbors in the neighborhoods around the Addison are aware of and staunchly opposed to this development. And citywide are concerned about city plans for building and development. But I know that some of you sincerely believe that there is growing support for this project and that there are many residents who support it and many who just don't have an opinion against it. If you are supporting the project because you believe your constituents support the project,

a citywide vote will prove the strength of your position, not just to you, but to me. So a citywide vote will be helpful to all of us. I can only speak for myself, but I personally would accept the result of a citywide vote by secret ballot initiative as the will of the people. And if a majority endorses the project, so be it. But before the project is built, I do think the voters should be heard. And if you don't send the vote to the ballot initiative, your constituents will have to petition for a referendum to put the zoning amendment on the ballot.

Please, please don't burden us with the enormous responsibility of gathering 16,000 signatures in 30 days, because that's what's needed for a voters' referendum petition to make our voices heard. You can do the same thing with your vote tonight. So in conclusion, please reconsider your support. But whether you oppose or continue to support the project, please empower the voters to speak and decide. Thank you for your consideration and for your service to our city.

Thank you, Mayor and Council, for letting us voice our opinions once again, and we're here again.

It's hard to imagine that a project with a cloud hanging over it like this would ever get approved, and the opposition that has been following it for two years. There are going to be people who want the project, but the overwhelming people of your constituents do not want it. I've noticed that the council has taken one or two little things that somebody that that likes the project in the neighborhood and they'll run with it without taking all of the valid reasons and good reasons why this project shouldn't go forward and tonight you folks have talked about well you know

we're concerned about the residents in every one of the things that have come up well these are the residents that don't want this project and you should be listening to us so we want to support you but we cannot support a council that doesn't support us. Thank you.

Michael

Clintamura, followed by Louis Wood.

Good evening, Mayor, Council Members. My name is Mike Plannamira. I live in Park Santiago, and I oppose this project. I've come here, I've lost track how many times I've come here and voiced my concerns about it. People have talked about the parking issues, they've talked about the density, we've talked about the traffic on Main Street and the effects it's going to have on the surface of Main Street, that additional traffic. But the one thing that really comes to my heart is the safety concerns with the new design for the Main Street and the entrance to the shared parking lot so close to Edgewood and the 5

Freeway and also the one at the Cube Center. I just want to go and notice our city attorney's not here, but if you approve this project, you're proving a safety concern and you're accepting that risk of any issues that come up with accidents or, worse yet, any deaths that may occur from that. So consider the safety concerns. The citizens of Santa Ana approved Measure X for a reason, so that you don't have to listen to the special interests of the developers when you look at projects. They've given you extra funding. You don't need the funding from every single project that a developer comes to you.

It's the wrong project for the location. Santa Ana is already one of the most densest cities in the United States. Why make it worse? The project has apartments that aren't going to feed residents of Santa Ana. Most of them can't afford it. It's going to be people coming from outside, going in, adding to the density of the city. It would be much better to have a low-density place that has ownership properties for people from Santa Ana that could move up from an apartment into a house. Why add more apartments to the city and make the conditions worse? And we've got pot shops, we've got bail bond shops, we've got dense apartments.

Is that really what Santa Ana really represents, or are we looking for the future? So I ask you tonight, let the people, as others have mentioned, Christine mentioned, let the people of Santa Ana vote on this project and approve the referendum initiative. Otherwise, we are going to go out. There's more than 100 volunteers going out to get signatures to put this on the ballot. So it will get on the ballot one way or the other. And you have the opportunity to voice your acceptance of the people of Santa Ana, the residents of North Santa Ana, and vote for the referendum. Thank you.

Thank you. Louis Wood, followed by Giles Candy.

Hello, Mayor. Council people, Mayor, I wanted to say one thing. The streetcar, thank you very much. Great project. I hope it expands. It's nice to see. It's nice that Santa Ana is the first, you know? It's great. I live in Park Santiago. I've been living in Park Santiago since 1992. my wife, two kids, they're growing up now and they're gone. But Parks Santiago is bounded, as you know, by Main Street, the park, the railroad, 17th.

That's not our neighborhood. Our neighborhood is inside of that. Main Street and the park and 17th and the railroad that belongs to the rest of the city to the whole city and things are different there. Density is needed. We've needed density for a long time to support businesses in downtown Santa Ana and the Arts District to support main place. As you walk if you walk Main Street

You can see that it's needed. It needs to be much more vibrant. You've heard all this before from me. I support this project. But I just want to say that our neighborhood is our neighborhood. It is not the edge. The edge belongs to Main Street. The park, the park needs to get developed, needs to get cleaned up. It has been something that nobody wants to go to if you walk through the park. But if you clean up the park, if you develop the park, we will get more people, right?

We'll get more traffic. I think that's a good thing.

Because it is the city's park, it is the people of Santa Ana that want to use that park. and it will increase traffic, it will increase density. Density is required.

A cleaned up park will attract more people.

You know, the freeway is on the edge of our neighborhood. The freeway is not our neighborhood.

The Chevrolet dealership, the gas station is not our neighborhood. It's on the edge. So is Main Street. And I think having luxury apartments on Main Street will be good for our city and will be good, I think, ultimately for the value of our homes. Thank you.

Charles Candy, followed by Kelly Medina.

Good evening, Mayor and Council. Thank you for the opportunity. the gentleman just made one of the points I was going to make. The opposition to 2525 is not absolute, but it's almost absolute. I will be very surprised if we get more than one in ten speakers such as was just before me. Valid? Absolutely. But this community has no group, no pro group. If you take the time to drive through Park San Diego, you will see no yes signs.

Chatting to Ryan Oglenick in my backyard, he was amazed at the, I'll say, resistance of the community. He had never seen anything like it before. and told me he would never do this again. Think about that. That is the level of community opposition genuine to this development. The community does not genuinely support it.

Your city's internal mechanisms to review a development repeatedly came to the conclusion that this development should not go forward.

The community has demonstrated and spoken. Your processes have demonstrated and spoken. All of the public metrics by which you are meant to judge a development have come to no, a resounding no.

By what public metric can you vote for this?

and if you are inclined to vote for this I would ask you to revert to your constituency

and have a referendum there are no public metrics that demonstrate a yes vote for this project not even the developer thinks that this community wants this project and he's never seen opposition like it. There's no genuine support for it. Thank you.

I'm Kelly Medina. I've been up here, I don't know how many times, to speak with you, and you've heard everything that there is to be said about it. I'm not sure why Ms. Iglesias has changed her mind about vote are not supporting it I wish I know you're very concerned and you're good-hearted and have the desire to do the right thing for our city I think that saying no is the right thing in this case if you don't feel like that's something you can do at this point I think it would really be good to support a referendum that would help take you all off the hook same with you mr.

Solorio. You're our representative. You're our only voice. And we're not having our voice heard because you're not representing it accurately.

If there's some reason why you're unable to support us, could you at least support a referendum and let it get on the ballot so that it can be presented to all of the constituents.

It's too big, too close to so much that goes on at that intersection that we as people who drive it every day know how to avoid. You bring in a bunch more people, there's going to be accidents. We could say that all day, but it doesn't seem to make any difference to anyone here. It would be better, in my opinion, for you to bring in condos or something like that if you must have residents because there are lots of people who need an opportunity to to buy a midway point not a house necessarily that can't afford it but they can get started in a condo

and it's a great place to have a condo it would be much less density whatever the answer is please make it so that you do not make the final decision in favor of it tonight please give us a referendum

vote. Thank you. Sue McDonald, followed by Janelle Johnson, followed by Frank Lopez.

Hi, I'm Sue McDonald, and I've lived in the Park San Diego neighborhood all my life, and I've watched this corner for a long time and it is a beautiful piece of property and I'd like to see something go in there that has more to do with the museum district. In fact, months ago I informed you that an innovative group was looking to acquire land at the Great Park in Irvine to build the Orange County Natural History Museum. I had approached them about the 2525 lot as an alternative site if the Great Park did not offer them acreage. This is the response I received when I checked back with them in December.

Hi, Suzanne. Thanks for the support and information. January seems to be a big month for decisions. We are supposed to hear the results of a feasibility study commissioned by the American Museum of Natural History New York for an annex at the Great Park. For sure, if things do not work out for the Great Park, we would be interested in the Main Street location. I will keep in touch.

All through the late 80s and 90s, great projects have been brought to the Main Street Corridor by our Mayor, Palito, and along with such names as Alberta Christie, Brett Franklin, Lisa Bist, Lisa Mills, Pat McGuigan, Robert Richardson, Tom Lutz, Don Cribb, and so many other memorable names in the Santa Ana history. The Mayor, City Council, Planning Commissioners, and the City Visionaries have all worked together to lure and encourage developments such as the Orange County High School of the Arts,

the Grand Central Art District, Bowers Expansion, and the Kidzium, the Discovery Cube, St. Joseph's Ballet, now the nationally renowned Wooden Floor Dance Academy. and Mayor Polito and I have been around long enough to see these things all work out because people worked really hard to get them here and thank you appreciate that I want to know why we are settling for an ordinary apartment development when we have proved in the past that we can lure great things to the museum and art district we don't have to accept the first project that comes along in the

past all city officials have worked to pick the best projects for the Main Street corridor. Why are we not continuing that legacy of past advocates for Santa Ana and pursuing outstanding projects? Even if we don't get the Natural History Museum, there are other great projects we haven't even tried to lure to this great piece of property. Please do not cover this acreage with a ho-hum apartment complex.

Hello, my name is Janelle Johnson. I'm the Park Santiago resident. It's Groundhog Day over and over and over and over again. And I'd like to wake up and finally get the right thing done, have this project denied once and for all, so that we can move forward and find an adequate project for this site. The developer brought this project with the zoning known, and making all of us come back here over and over and over and waste all of your time to oppose this project seems very unfair to everyone in this room.

I ask that you deny this project, and if for whatever reason you can't possibly do that, please send it to a referendum. And if you don't, I'll be knocking on some of your doors to get signatures, because this has got to stop. Thank you. And Ms. Iglesias, please reconsider your support vote. I know that building looks terrible and the back of it's all spray painted and everything, but just because of that does not mean that this is a time to make a bad decision. Thank you.

Good evening.

You guys have to recognize me by now. I've been here I don't know how many times with the same project. But one thing that was said right now. Give us your name anyways, Frank. Oh, Frank Lopez. My name is Frank Lopez Salorio, and my phone number and address is on that card. And if for some reason you don't believe anything I've said here, please contact me. I would love to talk to you and walk you personally to our neighborhood.

which is your ward, which honestly, and I'm not lying, you've never represented. You know it. You know it.

I do represent the entire city as all our colleagues do.

Okay, you know, there's something about you.

Do you know what blind aggression is? Do you know what blind ambition is? I see a little man there with such a big ego, with so much blind that can't see anything. Please open your eyes. These people, these are your constituents. I can't believe it that you've never come to my house. That's why I'm inviting you. You've never gone to anybody else's house here. Please come.

This project is in the wrong place and has no business there. You know, I often believe the city of Santa Ana. Okay, who runs the business in Santa Ana? I see more and more and more that the developers make the decisions here. You guys sit up there. You took an oath, each and every one of you. Please read it again. You took an oath to us. You took an oath to us. Please represent us.

If not, and if your true convictions are that this project is not for the area and that we, that the developers, you know, let's just say, bring it to a vote. Give us the opportunity. Just give us the opportunity to prove you right or wrong. And just like the other lady said, if we're wrong, so be it. But never make decisions like you do and never come into our neighborhood, to our homes.

Iglesias, same thing. Come to my house. I can show you my neighborhood. I will show it to you. Sarmiento, same thing. Come to my neighborhood. I'll show you. But no, you guys stay away. I don't know what else to say, but I am against the project, and I don't know what it takes to make any of you realize that we are the residents of Santa Ana. We are the city of Santa Ana. You are the caretakers.

You are supposed to follow many of our directions, not the opposite. Okay, good night and thank you. And please reconsider.

Thank you, Frank. Billy Lay is next, followed by Esther Lopez and Karen Iger.

I'm going to teach you. My name is Lee.

Billy Lee. God bless you. I love your vests.

God bless each one of you. You're going to get that someday. I will. I tell you what, if you do whatever it takes to put us off, we'll be back and I'll do it again. And we can have all this nonsense. Listen, people, tonight these guys said it. It's so crystal clear. I mean, you have to be an idiot.

Solario, I'm looking to choose, so don't be personal. And Inglis, I want to say that I do not believe you accepted dark money. I do not believe that. Your reason of voting or whatever it was, I say God bless you. If you did, confess it to God and let him forgive you, because I think sincerely that you did not. Now, he's different. He's got all kinds of things going for him. And he sets back, smirky. You know, he comes to meetings around the neighborhood, and there's never one time that he sets through the whole meeting. He gets up and he says, well, my wife is going to go on a plane. I've got to get home and take care.

I mean, how can you have interest if you're not interested in what's going on in the community? Shame on you, you rascal, you. Shame on you. You should be brave and say, I move that we say no for this project tonight, and then we can love you again. You would feel good about yourself. You would feel real good about it. Believe me, you would. This ego and all this stuff that's going on inside of you, it would depart, and you could be proud of yourself. You could be a man that could stand tall. You may not be six feet tall, but you could be a man that could stand tall. Mr. Mayor, a little bit of dequorum would be nice.

Yes, let's stick to the issue, please. Okay, sorry. Very rude. Well, anyway, I tried to logic everything that's going on. And honestly, I don't know your politics or your philosophies, but it is so illogical to vote yes on this thing. And it's so logical to vote no. I didn't know all these folks were going to talk about referendum, although I'm one who's going to go out and get signatures and so forth. But people, examine your hearts. Put yourself, as it's been said, put yourself in our shoes and see for yourselves that you will say no to this person. God bless you guys.

I pray the Lord will bear heavy on you so you'll make the right decision.

My name is Esther. Do I dare say Lopez?

Related to Frank?

I'm going to speak about love. I love Santa Ana. And I just turned 84 and happy birthday to you too. And yes, I remember Yost Theatre and I remember Emmet Raid, I remember West Coast Theatre, I remember Bowers, I remember St. Joseph's Ballet. I remember all of these wonderful, positive things about Santa Anna. And I want it to increase. I want it to continue to be the cultural, the loving, caring. Listen to how other people bring their homeless to us. Because we feed them. Because we clothe them. We care about them. We pray for them.

And that's what we are. We're not here to hear big money. My father used to say we don't have anything material, but we have our good name. We are Santa Ana, and we have a great name. And even though people may say some things about Santa Ana, the truth, the truth is, why are the museums coming here? Why the arts? Why the children? Why is the federal government here?

The courthouse. I used to be the secretary for the courthouse. Robert Gardner, Emmett Raitt brought me to this world. I know all these people. Hector Godinus, my mailman. I mean, am I going to be saying our children, our grandchildren, going to be saying that about you? what did you add to Santa Ana to make it great or greater? This is a town of love and caring, and let's keep it that way. Yes, you know, there are negatives, but every family has that. God is with us. Hashtag G-I-G.

God is good. Hashtag S-I-G. S-A-I-G. Santa Ana is good. Thank you.

Hi, my name is Karen Igar, and I'm a resident of Park Santiago. You've heard me say this before. I'm against the project at 2525 North Main with the way it's presented. It's too dense to be up against a single-family neighborhood. it doesn't make any sense in that location. There's plenty of apartments being built all around it, ruining a single-family neighborhood, a gem of Santa Ana, just doesn't make any sense in this environment. Piece-mealing your zoning, going against your entire zoning planning, your master plan for the city, just for this one development,

also doesn't make any sense. some speakers last time and tonight have talked about the safety of the crosswalk located that would be located way too close to Edgewood where children would be crossing from the the parking as part of 2525 to go to the Discovery Cube I hope that in the time since our last meeting you've had the opportunity to drive in that area to be on North 5 and exit at Main Street as though you were going to go to the Discovery Cube and put yourself in a mindset of a South County soccer mom who's just used to the generic architecture in South County.

And as she's coming off that freeway and it's a strange intersection, then you go through Edgewood and then you see the Discovery Cube. And right away there's that crosswalk with the stoplight there with children in it. I think it's just too strange of an intersection, too much to ask of people who don't regularly visit Santa Ana to deal with that. And it's too big of a risk to safety of children to be in that intersection in that location. So for all of those reasons, I'm asking you to vote against the zoning change and deny the development project.

Your staff has given you a backup plan to all of that, which is to take all of the residents, everything we're saying tonight, into account and let the referendum go on the city ballot. You've heard from neighborhood after neighborhood that is against this project. So let's let all the neighborhoods vote on it. Let's let the whole city vote on it and decide if it's a good idea and if it's a bad idea. And if the referendum passes, if the residents would approve it, I'll come back and I'll apologize to all of you, and I'll even wear a T-shirt that says, yes, I am a NIMBY. Thank you.

Thank you. Now Lynn Zickel, Diana Fradkin, and John Fradkin.

followed by Michael Ovalle

Good evening, Council, and thank you for your time. It's real clear, I've been up here before, I would wish for a no vote on both the rezoning and the apartment complex. And the reason why you had to call for decorum is because we're just flabbergasted that you could even vote for this. So we're trying to find anything in our minds to understand why, after you've heard from resident upon resident upon resident, that we do not support this. It's the wrong place. It's the wrong time. And you have 10,000 units going up within a half a mile. 10,000 beds, pardon me.

Why are we trying to cram more in a very perfect position for to extend the art district and to give our students something to go to? I teach in Santa Ana. I'd love to have more to take my students to on field trips. but I'd also like to have our area safe. So you called for decorum because we just don't understand why you'd ever vote for this. So please think about this twice, three times, four times, however many times we're going to be up here, because we will get the votes. We will get the referendum signatures. We'll do whatever we need to come back before you and say no. But we just don't know what's going to have you hear us.

I think you're listening, but I don't think it's really sinking through. So thank you for your time. I'm against this project. I'm against the rezoning. And I hope you understand why we keep coming back. Thank you.

Good evening, Mayor and Council Members. Diane Pradkin, Park Santiago. I'm here before you tonight to urge you to consider the second option, which is the initiative. And basically, there's some optics of the moving forward with the approval. Because if you do move forward with the approval of the project, it's highly likely that we will gather the signatures and take this to a referendum. So when you think about the optics of that, if you did support the project, and then the project goes before the community of Santa Ana and becomes rescinded,

How does that look as a leader of our city? You voted for something that the citizens decided wasn't really right. So just think about that. You have cover here. You can go by the initiative, let the citizens of the city decide this, and it sort of alleviates any issue that you might have there, especially if you're pursuing a mayoral bid perhaps in the fall. On a second matter, in your staff report, it talks about the costs associated with this initiative. And I'll defer to the city attorney and city manager on that.

But I don't think it's entirely correct. It's maybe perhaps a little misleading. If you do have another special election coming up, which I believe we'll know about here probably the beginning of February, this will piggyback onto it. So it won't bear the brunt of the $650,000 that is stated here in the staff report. So just a few things for you to consider. I would urge you to go with the option of the initiative. I think that would be what's best for you and then also best for the citizens of Santa Ana. Thank you. Thank you.

Good evening, honorable mayor and council members. My name is John Fradkin, and I'm a Park Santiago resident, and I oppose the 2525 Main Street project. With regards to item 60A, this project, the 256-unit apartment building and shared parking lot, I urge you to vote yes on the initiative and let the citizens of Santa Ana decide whether this project belongs in that spot. This is obviously a very controversial project. Take the pressure off yourselves. Let the citizens decide.

If you don't do this and decide to approve the project tonight, we're most likely going to wind up in a referendum, and the citizens of Santa Ana will get to decide anyway. Councilman Sarmiento, we discussed this three months ago, and you told me you thought we were headed for a referendum. I think you're right. But this would sure save a lot of work for a lot of people if you guys would just go with the initiative.

Another thing to think of, some of you will be running for mayor in November.

And I'd like you to think this through. If a referendum on this very unpopular project is on the same ballot as your mayoral election, and if you have shown a history of voting for this project, do you really think that's going to help your chances of winning the vote for mayor?

With regards to the projected $650,000 cost of this initiative, like my wife said, I hope you realize that that is most likely a highly inflated number. as in all likelihood, we will be going to a special election in 2020. And the cost of adding an initiative to that ballot would be nominal. We'll know for sure by February 3rd, which is the day prior to your next scheduled council meeting. I would ask that you read option two tonight very carefully, as tonight you're really only voting on asking staff to prepare an initiative measure, and you will have the opportunity to vote on it at the February 4th council meeting

when you will have full clarity on whether or not there is going to be a special election anyway. Next, I'd like to address some of the topics that I believe to be a false narrative that are bandied about regularly when discussing this project. The existing building is blighted and should be torn down. False. the applicant has allowed and encouraged that building to become blighted it's been part of his sales pitch all along the truth is that building is a very nice 80s era building that could easily be brought back through adaptive reuse and made into a medical office space or

perhaps even a medium density apartment building the next thing I have a problem with if we don't approve this project, developers will cease to be interested in doing new projects in Santa Ana. False. High-density apartment buildings are so profitable that they will be proposed in many locations going forward. Developers are making a profit of about $150,000 per door in these things. That means a 200-unit building results in a $30 million profit. Do you really think they're not going to want to do any more of these in Santa Ana lastly the idea that we

should feel sorry for this applicant because an ex-employee of the city's Planning Department led him down a pathway that caused him to buy the 2525 property and therefore the city owes him and should approve the project I'm sorry but feeling sorry for Ryan Oglenick is like feeling sorry for Tom Brady because he didn't win the Super Bowl every time in the last 10 years. Ryan has had a lot of successes in this city, and he will probably have some more. Okay, real quick, I think that one reason the residents are so upset is the process. The process surrounding this project has been

bad. I mean, the democratic process at the local level isn't working. We got involved, we showed our opinion, and very few of the players are listening. For those that have listened, Mayor Polito and Councilmembers Becerra and Viegas, we do thank you. But for the other players who continue to not listen to us, we are very disappointed. And just one last thing. Please, it's red. Yeah, I know it's red. Okay. I was I was thinking about this in the shower today, that when I read the staff reports authored by Min Tai, they always make me angry.

Because I feel that he's not impartial. He's one-sided. He supports the project, and he argues all the points to support the project. And it makes me angry. But then I realize maybe he thinks that's his job. And maybe I don't understand what his job is supposed to be. And maybe he doesn't understand what it's supposed to be either. And maybe it needs to be redefined, and maybe it's a corporate culture thing.

Come back and do another speech on that, because that's a whole other subject.

Yeah, well, I think I just, that's my point. That maybe the culture should be changed, and that the planning department should be impartial. And state all the facts. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, Michael. Hello, Mayor and Councilmembers. I'm Michael Valli, Park San Diego president. You guys ever played a telephone game? Remember that when you were kids? By the time you started over here, by the time it got five people down, what you said, yeah, forget it, right? So that's kind of how I feel what's going on with our neighborhood. We keep hearing we're out of touch. And Councilmember Inglacia, we met the other day and we talked about doing a survey. And, you know, I put some good effort into getting the survey monkey thing together. and one of my board members was like, we need to vote on this

and then the whole democratic process comes along. And I'm explaining this to you because you may have not seen my emails that I sent out to my quad reps by this time. I wish I had shared it with you earlier, but I tried to take the most nonpartisan position possible because I wanted to really know what was going on. Because I know, and I know you guys know, you know all your neighbors on your streets. You know the neighbors behind you, you know the neighbors around you. Well, we have 1,200 homes in our neighborhood.

And, you know, I'm lucky that one of our previous board members, our previous board, actually had the foresight to create quadrants. Our neighborhood is broken up and divided, north, south, east, and west, divided by Santa Clara, divided by Santiago. And we elect quad reps every year. And we have these quad reps out there because they're in tune with their neighborhood. They're in tune with their streets. They're in tune with their neighbors. and they have what I consider to be the pulse of their quad. And they all come back and present to us. So we put some good effort into this survey

and whether or not we felt it necessary to survey the neighborhood. And we got 70% back saying we're confident we don't want rezoning there. With 30% saying yes, I'm still interested. Now if Mr. Lee actually read his emails,

I would probably consider well I'm not going to guess what you read and again it was non-partisan so I'm not going to ask him to give me an answer right now but I'm sure it would have probably leaned in one way or another and you can guess how I think it's going to lean but you know Council Member Inglacy if you really want to know what our neighborhood feels and what the city feels because it's not just a Park San Diego problem You know, we have all these neighborhoods out here supporting us, all these neighborhoods who believe this is the wrong project for the wrong place. Send it to a referendum.

Councilman Solario, we've been through this, and yeah, you've had a long night already, I'm sure.

I walked to the gym, and I've been running to the gym again, and you know, Park and Rec has done a great job keeping that park clear. I don't know where these people are sleeping, but between Main Street and Broadway tonight, there was 17 to 20 people I counted. Of course, as soon as I get underneath there, I have to pick it up because I think it's a good idea to jog to the gym and go under the Main Street Bridge. And you get down there and you're like, oh, crap, right? So these guys are down there. And we've talked about we've got more police. We've got more beds. We don't need more beds. we've got

fencing down there with holes in it bars on one side with bars missing they're cutting metal bars out they're going to cut more fences out the police can't do it if Parks and Rec can't keep it clean if we can't keep it clean if you can't keep it clean and you really think an apartment building is going to keep it clean then send it to a referendum sir and let the people decide because you represent the city

I think you represent our ward, but you keep saying you represent the city. So send it to a referendum. Thank you.

Thank you, Stephen Gargon, Thomas Cartney, and Kathy Moorhead, I think. M-O-R-E, and I can't read the rest.

Mr. Mayor, Council Members, my name is Steve Gorgoni. I live in the community of Park Santiago in the beautiful city of Santa Ana. I'm here to speak against the 25-25 North Main Street development, like many of us here have been here to speak against over and over and over again. Now, I'd like to respectfully remind you of some important points. Representative democracy should represent and respect the majority. Representative democracy should represent and respect its constituents.

Representative democracy should listen to the concerns of its community members and represent them. The overwhelming majority of the neighborhood, Park Santiago, is against this project and have been voicing their concerns over and over again. Please represent us. A large swath of the city has voiced their major concerns about this development and they've told you they're against this project, not including all the residents who can't make it here to voice their concerns. Please represent us.

There have been numerous issues brought to your attention about parking concerns, traffic concerns, and frankly I believe these voices have demonstrated an overall unified disapproval of this development. Please represent us. this community has spoken but we were not heard before so I implore you listen to us

decisions like these make money more important than the real heartbeat of this city it's community members please represent us let me be clear with you we are unified in our resolve to oppose this project I truly hope all of you can support your constituents and oppose this second reading I implore you, please represent us so that we don't have to waste time and money needlessly on a referendum. $500,000 is a lot of money. That money could be spent in other major important areas in this city. I mean, I work for the district. It could be spent on many things for the students that I teach. We shouldn't even be going down that road.

But if we need to, then let's have the referendum and let's actually see democracy take place. Thank you.

Hello, Mayor and Council. My name is Thomas Cartney, and I am a 20-year resident of Park Santiago. There is just so much to say this evening. I'd first like to say that I am indeed one of the 40 or 50 or more that come to every one of these meetings.

And I would have to say that the 40 or 50 of us each cumulatively know many more friends and neighbors that can't afford the time to come here and spend hours and hours and hours, to come to meetings in February, to be shut out by hordes of union workers. We support unions, and we actually had one of the unions come out to speak for us. But we're all uncompensated for our time or anything else to do this. And if anything else, I've thought about a lot of things. I'm a transplant to California from the East Coast. I've lived in Correna Del Mar.

I've lived in Newport Beach. I've lived in Irvine. I've lived in Laguna Gal. I've lived in Rancho Santa Margarita. but I never found home in Southern California until I moved to Santa Ana and I love this city and the reason that I am here is because of the neighborhood that Park Santiago is and it's not just a collection of the architecture or its physical attributes it is the sense of community that we have in our neighborhood and that's very much like all the other neighborhoods in Santa

Ana. That's true of any of them. And I don't think that any other neighborhood in Santa Ana

would, you know, want to have a dense apartment building, you know, at its border. As Mr. Wood was saying, and I really respect Lewis Wood, I have to say, he's the only pro-voice that comes to these meetings. He's one of the very few. And he's that he's incredibly right about is that Main Street you know is the face of this city and this is a gateway to the city. We have an incredible museum district and this property should be representative of a gateway to an

incredible city. There's nothing about an apartment building no matter how wonderfully it's designed that says wow we've arrived in Santa Ana isn't this amazing and it's beautiful and like my neighbor Sue McDonald I would think for the best use of this property is for something that has to do with the Arts District and something that is integrated well with the Discovery Center itself with the park and also with our neighborhood so I respectfully ask you to please reconsider those council members to please reconsider your vote

and again thank you for your time and we'll keep coming back we'll be knocking on lots and lots of doors so I hope that you do go with the section option with regard to sending this to the voters thank you so much applause applause applause

Good evening, Mayor and Council members. I'm here to ask you to please consider sending this to a referendum. I think doing this will bring a clarity and a transparency to this project that it has not had since its inception. And I think if you cannot support the project, you really need to consider doing this. so that everyone can have a clear mind at the end of this process that the right thing was done and everybody had a voice instead of some of the agendas that don't seem to be out in the front as they should be. Thank you.

Thank you. Now we have Carol Slayton, followed by Angel Barnes, and Carl Benninger.

okay

you're up carl

we are here again i think of how much time and how many speakers have spoke and i don't live in in that part of city i live down in the south side But the neighborhoods down there are watching closely what happens to this section because we're feeling that if their voices are not being heard, ours don't matter either. Do you? So we're wondering what the purpose is. I'm an engineer by training. I get very frustrated when good logic gets destroyed by emotions. And when I look at the safety issue of children crossing that street, and those of you on the panel who have had small children know that when they're four or five

and they're excited, they dart out. And if you drive that street, that is just an unsafe situation that's going to occur if we build this building. We keep hearing the elevations of this building. Is it five stories, six stories, seven stories? It's 60 feet in the air. That's six stories. That's higher than people pointing out other areas, I'm sorry, other constructions in my area, like at MacArthur and Main. That's a three-story building. And that builder worked with the neighborhoods because Les Goldberg was able to negotiate good things for that neighborhood, that they benefited and the builder benefited.

And there's a wide street between them, and there's good exits to those areas. So it's worked out well. For all logical reasons, this is the wrong project in the wrong locations. So I do hope that those that have sworn this project against the Planning Commission's advice rethink your position, think about who you represent and think about the people of Santa Ana because not only is this neighborhood looking but all our neighborhoods are looking including mine. Thank you.

Thank you. Angel Barnes followed by Chuck

Krolikowski and then Dale Helwig.

Good evening. I'm a 20 year resident of Floral Park and a retired Santa Ana judge. I've been before you several times on this topic. I won't cover any of the issues that have already been talked about. I want to remind you, however, that your approval of this project will decrease the equity of every Park Santiago home,

as evidenced by the real estate data in every other neighborhood where a high-density project like this has already been built. I implore you to show these homeowners that you care about the value of their homes. If you proceed to approve this project tonight, we are prepared for the referendum process requiring us to get thousands of signatures.

It will begin no later than this Friday, and we have already filed a CEQA lawsuit just two days after the December 17th City Council meeting. Remember that even if we prevail in the referendum and in the ultimate ballot, the four of you who vote for this project, if indeed you vote for it tonight,

will forever link your names to a project that was overwhelmingly opposed by the adjacent neighborhoods for two solid years. Tonight we have hundreds of people that came. You only heard one voice proposing it only one out of hundreds obviously it should not be approved if you cannot reject the project tonight you can still be fair however by directing your staff to prepare an initiative measure to be

ultimately voted on by all Santa Ana registered voters later this year. Thank you so much.

Good evening, Mayor and members of the City Council. My name is Chuck Kurlikowski. I'm legal counsel for the Santa Ana Citizens for Responsible Development. My office filed the CEQA lawsuit last month challenging the city's approval of the project on CEQA grounds. We have not filed the next one because we're still waiting on your determination with respect to the remainder of the project approvals. But what I heard tonight was, I thought was interesting, was that someone talked about having a voice in this process.

And if you've seen my lawsuit, one of the issues that I think the city failed at was recirculating the EIR, one that was substantial evidence supporting recirculation of it, and making decisions after the public hearing closed with respect to the development entitlements that you'll be considering tonight. One of the hallmarks of CEQA is public input, meaningful public process, the ability for people to comment with respect to the EIR. After the public hearing closed, the City Council did several things that I felt violated CEQA.

One of them was to add a mitigation measure that was never discussed in any EIR documents. The second was to make amendments to the development agreement on the fly. I mean, I was kind of shocked that, you know, you have public comment for hours and hours and hours. After we're done, you're now bargaining with each other over making revisions to a development agreement, which is a legislative act. So that, along with mitigation measures, I thought are issues that will be addressed by the courts. And the third item was the fact that you, in your final EIR, you had an additional arborist study, which was not recirculated for comment.

And the point of the lawsuit is that you have to have the public input in the process. They have to be able to look at what you're doing, look at all the alternatives, look at all the mitigation measures, come to you and provide their comments. When you don't do that, you're not giving them that opportunity. You're not giving them that voice. In addition to that, I submitted a letter today, which I'm going to provide an extra copy to the clerk. This letter was submitted earlier today with additional information. And some of the three additional items that we identified in our letter with respect to this process

was that the impacts from the new offset intersections and curb cuts was never studied in any of the documents, that the shared parking agreement was never studied or identified, and also cumulative impacts from the current or the most recent main place mall transformation project, those were not also assessed in the EIR documents. And again, it goes back to this concept that you have to give the people a voice, an opportunity to comment with respect to anything you're changing with respect to this project, whether it be prior to the circulation of the FEIR or at a public hearing.

Making changes on the fly after the public hearing is closed causes problems. And so I urge you to adopt your second option tonight, I think with an initiative, you get to control the content, you get to control the message, and you get to let the people decide and vote on that. The alternative, if you move forward tonight, a referendum will likely come about, as well as an additional lawsuit with respect to the approvals, the project approvals. So with that, I urge you to move forward with option two. Thank you.

Thank you.

Dale Helwig.

Good evening. My name is Dale Helwig, and this is the first time I've been here, so bear with me.

Back in the 1980s, the city adopted the slogan of the Golden City. I'm hoping maybe we bring that back and bring the luster of the city back into play and let the people help in that process. Santa Ana is the highest density city in Orange County. Let's not worry about the state or the nation, which we know we are number four or number seven. It's the highest density in Orange County, and it's going to continue to grow in density if we keep on approving these projects.

It's up to you, or in this case, up to the city to decide if we want this project. There are a lot of residents that aren't here tonight because they have families, and they have one, maybe two jobs that they can't come to. The people that you see here represent our community. It may be the same people that you've seen before, but they're representing a vast majority of people.

Councilman Iglesias, you weren't here when Christine spoke, so let me just kind of paraphrase that. She apologized for the data that she provided you, and I am responsible as well for that data. But that data was presented at a meeting in August. It was provided in the February staff report, but that data was presented to Ryan and Jeremy in August at the meeting we had on the 8th floor. They didn't deny the claim that the 272 units was their target. They had an opportunity then to correct my misunderstanding of the document.

They didn't. I ran with that. Christine picked it up because she heard me talk about it. So it's my mistake as well. But it could have been corrected months ago. So we do apologize for that. It wasn't a malicious intent. It was an honest mistake.

We always hear about how the developer feels. We never hear about the development itself. And I don't know why that is. We also hear more about some residents being either in favor of it or neutral on the project. but as you can see here, there's a large number that are opposed to it.

Why is it that this project you choose to ignore, the recommendations made by the Planning Commission, three times it was disapproved, but it's approved here? I don't understand that. You know, it's been looked at by the city. It's been disapproved. Let's take their recommendation. It's not wrong for out-of-town developers to come in and want to build projects in Santa Ana. But what I think is wrong is for them to come in and tell us what we should build. If we go down to First Street, you take a look at the project being built there right now. It's huge.

The Toll Brothers project, which is a very good example of what will go in at 2525 if it were to come to pass, it's 260 units. and take a look at the massing of that. That's what we would see right on Main Street. I don't think that's acceptable. There was an article in the LA Times that dealt with demolition of neglect where a developer purposely lets his property become a dangerous position and therefore the city lets them demolish it because it's been neglected so long. Everything happens for a reason.

So if you believe that this is what the people want, let's reaffirm it through the initiative process, or we'll go ahead and get the referendum signatures. Thank you very much.

Thank you. That was our final speaker. So I now want to bring it to Council for consideration and thought.

I know Mayor Putain wanted to speak. Do you want to have discussion before you make a motion, or what would you like? Go ahead.

Let me get straight to the point. I want to make a motion to approve option number two.

That is putting it for a vote.

Phil BacerraItem —

I'll second with comment.

All right. Let's second. Let's have a discussion, then we'll go from there. So we have who wants to comment? Council Member, please go ahead.

Phil BacerraItem —

So this is the third chance at a second reading.

Phil BacerraItem —

As a council, we have the responsibility to lead, and personally I don't want to see this go to an initiative or referendum. I think we need to make that decision. From the last couple of meetings, it's obvious that there's a couple of us that are pretty committed to our positions and some of us that are having doubts about the decision. And I think at that point, you know, it's one thing to continue it a couple of weeks, heck, even 30 days. But I think given the fact that we are at a third, second reading, I think it behooves us to let the residents decide this. And so with that, I appreciate Mayor Pro Tem making the motion.

Phil BacerraItem —

I strongly support seconding it.

Okay, would I suggest if we have more comments, make them? If not, I've got a couple comments. then I'd like to suggest we vote on this if it passes we're done. If not, we go back to the other recommendation that's by staff. Comments I want to make is that some of the speakers, I think, really spoke from the heart.

And Santa Ana is a wonderful city. I think everybody up here, we're up here because we all love the city. And things don't happen by accident. I know some of the speakers talked about the Ronald Reagan Federal Courthouse. There's the Fourth District Court of Appeal. There's all the things that are going on in the Civic Center now. Go up and down the city, there's so many beautiful things happening. Every single one of those projects has a story. It has a story, and it has a story where we're trying to lift the city and reach a new goal.

and I do believe that there are other good uses that could take place at that site that we're talking about 2525. It could be a natural science museum. I know that there's interest in that. The county looked at it in the past and it doesn't mean that if we don't push hard it can't be in the future. I also believe that the Red Roof Inn, it's something we've talked to the science center about. They've had their eye on that for a long time. I think it might be possible to join forces of the city with the money that they have right now from the state and possibly do something to acquire the Red Roof Inn.

And that would be a much more natural facility for them to expand and for them to be able to improve. I mean, they could have aquatic exhibits and things along the creek, remove the red roof fin and use that to expand the museum and to have parking. And those options have been there in the past, but now with the money that they have, if we work together, I believe we can get there. So I think there are other visions that could happen, but I do agree that ultimately, especially when something is of this magnitude, this controversial involving so many people

from different neighborhoods throughout the community, maybe it is best for us to step back and say, you know, let the voters decide. Generally, I don't like to do that because I believe that we're elected to make decisions, but, you know, not every decision is of that nature. And I believe this one rises to a higher level. You've made a compelling case for a long period of time, and I'm, you know, prepared to support the motion. Councilor Solario.

I'd like to make a substitute motion so we could first act on what we've been discussing the past year or so. So my motion, my substitute motion is to move in support of items 1A and 1B.

If that dies for lack of a second, I suggest we vote on the other one first. because if we do it the way you're suggesting, the minute we approve the second reading, we lose our power to consider an initiative. Is that correct, Madam City Manager or City Attorney?

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

Yes. If you adopted the ordinances on the second reading, they would become effective and really be irrelevant at that point.

It's more complicated than that because I think some of the items already only need only a first item, so they're kind of de facto approved. But I just think that we owe it to ourselves and the public to first vote on the item outright. And so if we have a motion and a second, we'll vote on what we've been discussing.

I just want to make sure we understand what we're doing because I think staff is very clear about what they're saying. I don't think there's any vagueness. Can you address that further?

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

I'm going to speculate here a little bit so Councilmember Solari, help me out. I think what you're referring to is that the way the approvals have been proposed, they're kind of layered on one another. So you might be referring to the fact that if the zoning code is not approved, then the development agreement becomes irrelevant anyway. What I'm saying to you, though, is that upon the second reading and approval of the zoning ordinance and of the ordinance adopting the development agreement, they would become effective only subject to the 30-day referendum period.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

So if you were to take that action, there would be no need to then discuss whether you'd have an initiative or not.

But an option for tonight is still just voting on item 1A and B.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

Correct. If you were to make the substitute motion and receive a second, our rules would require you to act upon your substitute motion first.

And that would kill the possibility of referendum if it should pass. If it passes, we can't later come back and say, well, now we want to decide about letting the people decide. We've given up that power at that moment in time. So just so we're clear, we give up the power to let the people decide if we do it in the order you are suggesting.

So, so far I haven't heard a second to your motion. So I'd say it dies for lack of a second. So let's vote on the motion before us, and we'll go from there.

So let's vote. If it fails, we'll be back. But those in favor, press green.

Council Member Sarmiento, we're waiting on your vote.

So the motion for the initiative dies. So now we come back.

Phil BacerraItem —

Mr. Mayor. Yes. So what the heck, I'll throw this out there. I'll make a motion that we just outright deny the second reading of the two ordinances on the agenda. I'll second that.

So we have a motion and a second.

Any more discussion on that? If not, let's vote on the motion. to deny.

All right. So no referendum, no motion to deny.

Mr. Mariner, now that your motion has failed, Let's go back to what we've been discussing, which is item 1A, 1B. I'll move that. Just for discussion purposes, if we could have a courtesy of a second so we can fully discuss.

Is there a second?

I'll second it for discussion purposes.

All right. We have a motion and a second for discussion purposes. So let's discuss.

Okay.

Go ahead. Okay. So I just want to make my comments, and I feel that we have been here for way too long, way even before I was elected. And I recall that the reason back in February when we talked about us delaying the process of approving was with the intention that the neighborhood and the applicant, the developer, would go back and work things out.

I know that didn't happen, and I know there's a lot of personalities that have been involved in this, And it just seems like we've never found a happy medium on where we should be going with this. I know a constituent emailed me last week asking me why would I support this project. And I believe I've said it in the past, and I'm going to say it again. I feel that it's a good project for the city.

I believe that it's something that could be negotiated, that we could have been negotiated to be lesser units. And I know that's something that the developer was willing to do, and I know we had some of our community members there at that meeting. And it just seems like it's going back and forth, back and forth, and we're just wasting everybody's time. And the last thing that I would want to say is I met with Mr. Ubalde and Adriana, another community member from Park Santiago.

And my hope was that there would be some type of dialogue that happened, a survey or some type of thing that would come before them so we could have these negotiations with the developer so they could talk about what's feasible and what couldn't be feasible. Because I know we started talking about for sale units, and there was more interest on individuals who wanted that type of project to be built.

But unfortunately, the emails of all the Park Santiago residents was held hostage. And so that email didn't go out to everyone. And I just feel that this is something that's been dominated by certain individuals. And I just feel that individuals that wanted to support this project haven't done it publicly for fear of retaliation. And I don't blame them.

Okay. So, okay.

So my hope is we were here for this project. This could have been approved at 498 units back last year. It would have. But then I took it on myself to go talk to you guys, to go to make sure so we can do some type of collaboration, some type of pros and cons. And I know my biggest concern was the residents on Spurgeon because they're the ones that are going to be faced with the most impact if this project gets approved.

so I focus just on Spurgeon the ones that are facing them because I felt that they they needed the most voice and I know when I met with you all several times it was always something like okay responsible development responsible development what does that look like that that was my question so when I met with you all of you you said well you know we don't want 498 units because that's too much I said okay so what does responsible development look like so then I said when we met with mr. Helbig and Rob Richardson and we met all met

it in on the eighth floor I said I threw it out number because I said okay I know if it was in my in my neighborhood which is over there by Centennial Park if it was a 300 unit project I would be okay with it it's it's a nice it's a nice project it'll add to Edinger because the way I see it is Edinger is the same thing as Main Street it's a main seat Main Street project okay so if you guys allow me please thank you so I would I would be okay so I threw out the 300 number when we met with the developer we we met with Mr. Richardson

so then you know came the whole with I mean the whole conversation with the Discovery Cube 256 units and then they'll get you know part of the parking structure so for me that that is a project and I say stated last time and that's why I voted for it was that's a project that I could live with in in my neighborhood so we're all Santa Ana and I believe this is you know this is a great project and I know it's something that could given the opportunity it'll make that neighborhood a nice a nice side of Main Street that we don't see now and it'll definitely

help with the homeless encampments it'll help with individuals okay okay so and so the the thing is you know so it's 256 units I'm okay with it and I tried one more time to say you know what let's do this survey let's see if we could bring it down so I am comfortable with it's it's a beautiful neighborhood it's a beautiful it's a beautiful project I wouldn't mind it in my neighborhood it's beautiful so so what what I would say it's it's something that I one more thing that I would like

to ask I I would support it but based I know but I would have the expectation of the developer and those neighbors that came to that meeting that want to truly make it a better project for this neighborhood. I know that you guys can go have conversations and see how we can make it better so other neighbors that are okay with it, they're able to give in their input and hopefully make it the project that it should be. And I believe it's time. That's why I voted no to the other proposals or whatever it is, the motions that you guys proposed.

Because if it wouldn't have been for, and Mr. Dale said, it was an honest mistake. But I feel it was a little dishonest, to say the least, when it came to the numbers. knowing how I look at things, I want things to be documented, I want data and information to be shared with me that is truthful, that I'm going to be able to make a decision.

And so with that said, I'm ready to, I mean, I second the motion, so you let me know what you guys want to do.

All right. Additional comment, Council Member Solario? Thank you, Mr. Mayor. First, I do want to thank Councilman Iglesias for those comments. You know, it's not always easy sitting up here, so I do want to thank my colleagues for their patience, you know, really two years on this. As was mentioned by the Councilwoman, this project is now half the size it was before. It has a very significant part with the cube. It's they, by the way, that are highlighting all the various safety improvements for their children and for the folks in that area.

They have a letter that's on file, and if you're interested in the safety of our children, please look at that, because that's the community they work with. I've been in the transportation infrastructure area for 20 years. I'm well aware, and it's common general knowledge, that residential always creates less traffic than a like-size office. I know there's been, again, back to some misinformation, information that is not correct on that point.

Similarly, to equate that more apartments always means less property values, go ask San Francisco or go ask the last recession. Really, property values have much more to do with the economy, much more to do with many other items, not whether there's an apartment next door or not. And so please take that into account. Finally, as a package of things with what's being considered today, it will also make the area safer in conjunction with what our police department and city is doing. But there is going to be a safety patrol program. There are going to be improvements to the creek.

There is now identified funding to close off what some folks say is a gateway to nowhere there under one of the underpasses. passes. And then finally, another key point, we're being asked to build, I believe a minimum, it's not final, but about 4,000 new units in the next 10 years. If this doesn't get built here, we are going to need to replace it somewhere else. And so we need as a city, you know, be collective in our vision there. Finally, I know that because of what we see on TV, civil discourse isn't always what it should be. Let's try to do the right thing here in

Santa Ana and be civil. We can agree. Feel free to vote for me, against me in the next election. That's fine, but let's be civil with one another. Thank you very much.

Okay, additional comment on the motion before us? Yeah, right here.

go ahead mayor pro tem

thank you mr mayor so uh yeah this uh this position and this position you know requires us to make some really really tough calls and i know i have made some but for me this is so so simple, so elementary. And when you have these many people come out, and I'm talking letters from the entire city, you know, com length that never, you know, takes a position, but they did this time. They were very brave about it. All the neighborhood associations coming together in

support of a neighborhood here. Wow. And I'm kind of shocked. In my heart, you know, I'm very, very sorry if this thing passes. I'm sorry for all the residents that came out here. You fought a good fight, and I'm proud of you. But, okay, well, okay. So, but, yeah, this is tough, and it is true. We all make a tough call here. Everyone has a story of why they're doing what they're doing. Mine is simple. It's public service. That's all it is.

And I thank you all for coming out. And I know there's a lot of people who wanted to be here this evening, and they're not. And, God, like I said, this was worse than the Sanctuary City vote. When we had everyone out here and the mob and the media and all that, I mean, just a million people out here. But this one took the cake, at least during the time that I've been here. So I'm with you. And, you know, let's get on with the vote here soon.

Phil BacerraItem —

Thank you Mr. Pro Tem I just want to echo some of the sentiments of the Pro Tem I want to thank you guys for coming out whether you're for against the project but definitely tonight those that were opposed to this project showed the day it is disappointing I mean I don't blame you if I was out in the audience and you know seeing the way that this is progressed for lack of better terms. Yeah, I would share in your disappointment. I appear and hope to see with the outpouring from the community and the strong opposition to this project that we wouldn't

Phil BacerraItem —

have three second readings. But I'm going to repeat myself. Guys, if it was such a slam dunk, we wouldn't be at a third or a second reading. But we are. So before you guys go right down that path and vote for this thing just be aware you guys had hesitation you guys paused for a second so take take a step back and ask yourselves why did you pause you know some will say well it's because you're trying to work with the community which is appreciated but at the end of the day the community has come back in full full voice saying thanks but no thanks we don't want this

Phil BacerraItem —

thing and i know that some of my colleagues also say this you know that they want to respect the community and support the community there they are they're all right there and they're saying

Phil BacerraItem —

they're saying that they don't want this thing so I mean it's it's disappointing I mean to see this many people take this much time to come out and the fact that you have folks that are reminding us that they've been here numerous times on the same project so again I want to thank each and every one of you for coming out tonight and uh mr mayor i'll turn it back to you thank you just final comment and then

we'll vote and we'll move on we have other items on the agenda believe it or not but i i just want to say um you know orange had a similar situation and they now have a referendum and i believe if orange can do it santa anna can do it it's it's up to the people in this case you have to buy shoes and do a lot of walking. It's a lot of knocking, but there's a lot of people out here. And, you know, it's can you get the signatures in 30 days? Again, Orange did it. They're a smaller city, but they made their numbers.

And I believe that with the network that you have and the resolve that I see, this isn't over until you decide that it's over. And if you believe as strongly as you do, you know, we have a process to allow you to continue to participate. So with that, those in favor, press green.

So motion passes.

Madam City Attorney, I mean City Clerk, our next item.

65A.

Why don't we take a couple minutes, five minutes, go to the bathroom, let the room clear out a little bit.

Thank you.

Hello. Hi. Hi. Victor. Hi. We actually went to office several days ago trying to get on their calendar. I think we're going to reach the farm. That's not really good.

Which item? It's, uh...

What item is Mariscos Hector?

75A.

75A.

Okay, I've had a request. I've had a request from council members to bring up item 75A. Mariscos Hector, I believe it is. and I'm going to turn things over to Mayor Pro Tem. I've received previous campaign contributions and out of an abundance of caution, I just think it's better that I not participate on this matter. So I'm going to turn things over to Mayor Pro Tem.

Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

Mayor Pro Tem, we do have a staff presentation on this item, if you desire.

Would the council like a presentation? Okay, we have a quick presentation.

Thank you, Mayor Pro Tem and member of the City Council. This item is a request for approval of conditional use permit for the Morisco Hector Restaurant, located 1801 South Main Street this item was previously considered by the Planning Commission last year and it was approved subsequent to that approval the City Council called this item up for review at a City Council meeting the request is for an upgrade of existing alcohol license going from a type 41 which is beer and wine to a type 47 to allow for distilled spirits for on sale

in conjunction with a bona fide eating establishment it also asks that the proposal for service alcohol be allowed for expanded into a 600 additional 600 square foot area of an existing restaurant which is about 18 and 50 square feet and it includes a request for after hours operation until 1 a.m. this item cup for the extended hours was continued by the Planning Commission and it is something that is on tonight but at the applicants request it was also as part of recommendation if you were to consider

is to also continue the approval of that and considerate consideration of that for six months the property as you can see is located at the corner of Main Street and Occidental there is a commercial center between Occidental and Berkeley that's multi-cent tenant and the restaurant has been there since the late 80s the area is surrounded by commercial along Main Street as well as residential on the east side of the street and additional commercial on the west side

of the street here's a site plan of the project the Morisco Hector is located at the southern most southern tenant space of the existing 1850 square feet they're proposed which is in pink on the screen and they're proposing to also expand into unit D which is currently vacant they have taken possession of that and that's in unit D this is a site plan showing the service area as you can see it is a bona fide eating establishment with dining areas kitchens service and storage areas the cup is as i mentioned to allow for sales of distilled spirits as part of the

compliments of meals to allow the expansion into a dining area in addition we with the planning Commission reviewed the application when it was heard and evaluated the type of activities that we have heard from the neighborhood regarding nuisance issues regarding to potential crime issues and what we found through working with code enforcement through working the police department that there were no active code enforcement action. The state ABC license did not have any issues with the application.

The police department did not oppose to the proposal for the CUP, both in terms of the expanded sales of alcohol as well as the hours. And operational standards were put on by the The Planning Commission spoke out the original recommendation that will mitigate and address potential impact from the operations of the restaurant and the extended hours. The hearing process, the Planning Commission, as I mentioned, heard it starting in April of last year. The item was continued based on the public input from the neighborhood areas regarding concerns about nuisance issues.

Through that continuance, the applicant and staff met with the community in June and July. We also follow up with additional police evaluation and crime report for the area, as well as looking at the call for service. Overall, in terms of the evaluation for call of service, there were over 20 calls that were reviewed for the time period. And out of those, two were verified for the project, and they were related to one was for disturbing a peace, and the other was a report of stolen vehicles.

So that was over the review of over 20 calls for service for the business. We also, as part of the preparation for this meeting, requested an update for the call of service from the police department since October, and there has been no additional call for service between October and today.

the planning commission through its hearing process added a couple of conditions one was to replace the storefront with a noise attuniating storefront so that it will help to attuniate noise from the interior going out to the exterior this is part of the conditions of approval by the planning commission and we would be recommending that the city council also consider it should it consider approval of this request. The commission also added that there would be a six-month review of the second CUP request, which was the extended hours to after hours.

And this was to really see and allow the restaurant to demonstrate its ability to operate without impacting the neighborhood. So that is also something that the applicant themselves has voluntarily asked that it would be continued if the city council considered this application.

So the recommendation tonight, and it is a de novo public hearing, which is you should consider this without basically background from the Planning Commission because it was a call for review. The options before you is to adopt the resolution proving the conditional use permit for the alcohol upgrade and expansion. Continue the conditional use permit that is being requested for after hours for at least six months period. Here it says April 27th, but the intent was a six-month period after the operation has started with the expanded alcohol license.

Your second option is to adapt a resolution to approve the conditional use permit with the added conditions and then continue the conditional use permit to allow after hours also to April 27th. And the third option is to adapt a resolution denying the conditional use permit, both of them. So that's your other option to be considered.

Let me pause you on two-way. can you clarify what the difference is between with added conditions as opposed to as conditioned

so what the city council also has the option is to add additional conditions and just if we want

to correct okay yeah you add it tonight by us tonight you have the ability to also ask for

Conditional conditions. I understand. Correct.

Is there any other questions from the council? Council Member Sarram.

Phil BacerraItem —

Thank you, Mr. Pro Tem. Min, could you tell us, as far as for this license, so they're currently a Type 41, so it's beer and wine, public premise, and they're asking for an upgrade to a 47 and to be open until 2 a.m. in the expanded footprint, correct?

In the expanded footprint, correct.

Phil BacerraItem —

Okay, so I guess what my concern is, so in that area, how many 47 licenses do we have, say, within a 500-foot radius, 1,000-foot? I mean, just kind of the general area, how many do we have?

There is no other business that has a type 47 within a half mile of this restaurant.

Phil BacerraItem —

So half mile, there's no other 47. So if we didn't approve the 47 for this, they wouldn't be at a disadvantage because all their peers in the area are at a 41 license.

There are four surrounding businesses in the area, general vicinity, that has a type 41 license, which is beer and wine.

Phil BacerraItem —

Okay, and do you happen to know how late these other businesses are open?

So currently, they don't stay open beyond 12. So those businesses don't have the expanded hours.

Phil BacerraItem —

So those businesses don't have a CUP to stay open late night, which would be after midnight?

Correct.

Phil BacerraItem —

So this would be the only one within a half mile?

Correct.

Phil BacerraItem —

Okay, thank you.

okay is there any other questions council member

David PenalozaItem —

okay so uh you want to have you have a question for staff um or it was more of a comment okay were we just hearing oh go ahead oh do the comment and then i'm going to have the speakers oh well i'll go after you want to wait okay very good okay so we're going to go ahead and thank

Thank you, Mr. Minn. We're going to go with Arthur Newton, followed by Ernesto Martinez.

And we're going to open the public hearing. Go ahead.

Mr. Mayor, my name is Mark Gahn.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

Excuse me one moment. I just want to make sure we have the applicant going next. You are the applicant? And I am the applicant, yes.

But I'm going to be very quick here at the beginning of this year. This application is well known. The staff report is quite comprehensive and is summarized as a good reminder of this application for the CUP that's before you for approval this evening. At this time, I'd like to also let you know that during the break, I was able to deliver to the clerk 31 additional letters from residents and businesses in the area. These are in addition to the letters that have been presented previously.

But these are all in support, and they're all from the area surrounding or nearby the restaurant and in the South Main Business District. Second, in order to be efficient and save everybody's time, I'll avoid being repetitive about the merits of this application at this point in time and save my time for after the

after the public hearing has taken place. Thank you, sir. So, Madam Clerk, you gave me a couple of cards for a couple individuals that wanted to speak after the applicant. Okay, so the next person is Gustavo.

Followed by Richard Garcia.

Well, good night, everybody. My name is Gustavo Rea. I am a teacher at Chavez High School since 2009. And I'm here to acknowledge and talk on behalf of Hector's. It's a restaurant that has contributed scholarships to our students since 2015.

$250 each. students that graduated and went on into Santa Ana College. We started that and we continue to do that. Another thing, they provide luncheons to our students, special events. Last October, we had our first event and they were provided a meal for 35 kids, each a complete meal, including a meal and salads and french fries. We have a next luncheon this Thursday on the 30th.

Our students are being celebrated with a ceremony and Hector's is providing the meal for each one of those kids. There are 35 of them and some other instructors will be able to serve their foods. On top of that, Hector's has offered their fundings and their contributions for books for our students. I teach ethnic studies, and we do have a book that is out of print, and it's hard to get, and the district does not pay for it. I need a set for that, and they offer to pay for it, and that's going to happen too. On top of that, we are celebrating Sister Chavez's birthday on March 31st.

Coming up, Hector has offered a banquet to feed 300 people for the ceremony, plus one hour of music, live music, to honor our hero, Cesar Chavez. That is a tradition that Cesar Chavez has done for the last 20 years, and I would like to continue it as a teacher there. And I'm coordinating it with Elisa for that to happen. It is their philosophy and my philosophy that we agreed to carry on with these events because it is the best way to pay back to our community by serving our students that need this type of help.

In particular, I love the scholarships. We are thinking of outgrowing that type of activities by organizing perhaps all the business together and having some kind of leadership and a committee to see if we can actually send kids abroad to Spain and Costa Rica and study the Spanish language. And that's a dream that I've been working with, Elia, and something that I would love to see and send these kids away in the summertime. and with this type of funding. I want to say thank you to Hector's and thank you

for listening to me and good luck. Thank you very much for your comments.

Richard Garcia followed by Arthur Newton. Hi council members some of you know me some of you don't I've been a community leader here for the city for quite a almost close to 20 years I've been volunteering my services. As you know, we've been having a lot of negativity in the city from other cities. I go to other meetings, I attend other meetings throughout the city, and every time I'm out there, I always hear negativity about the city.

What do I want to do is start with the positivity with issues. All the negativity has to leave, and we've got to start with these issues, Mariscos Hectors. I'm going to admit, a couple years back, I voted against this. But the negativity of these people that were running this, the so-called managers, they're gone. We're out of here. They're running another business or they're doing other things, but they are not part of this. So my issue here is, please, let's get this city to a positive response. And we've got to start with this, this restaurant. because you guys haven't heard what I've heard out there.

Negativity, negativity starting with this restaurant. It's all talk, talk, talk, talk, but nobody has put it down on paper, as you can see. Each and every one of you guys have documentation, having support from the businesses and some of the communities. Like I said, I've been doing this for over 20 years. So if you have any questions, you're welcome to ask me, but that's all I've got to say, and thank you for hearing me.

Thank you, Richard. Thank you for your comment. Arthur Newton, followed by Ernesto Martinez.

Good evening, members of the Council.

This applicant has done everything you have asked of her in this application process. Your city staff and your planning commission have approved this request. Any opponents to the request have never provided you with any foundational evidence or basis in fact upon which you can rely to deny this request. Indeed, all they've ever offered are speculation and conjecture.

I do believe there's a certain irony to this hearing tonight. The last time we were here and the last time I spoke was on November 5th of last year. In the course of the meeting, I remember Council Member Penaloza inquired about an ABC licensing in an outdoor patio establishment. I believe it was West House, located on the 300 block of East 4th Street. We were told that ABC had not granted the permit yet, and they were having some difficulty in view of the outdoor aspect of it.

At that point, Councilmember Penaloza indicated the city should become proactively involved in helping them obtain the proper ABC licensing. Indeed, he went on to say that such matters are often perceived by the public in Santa Ana to be difficult, but quote-unquote, they should not be. And if you're interested, it's in the videotape of that meeting at 1 hour, 51 minutes, and 22 seconds.

I would hope that the spirit and the substance of Councilmember Penaloza's comments are resoundingly reflected tonight in your vote to approve this application and allow this applicant to be a contributing member of the Santa Ana City business community. Thank you.

Thank you for your comments, sir. Ernesto Martinez, followed by Jose Castillo.

Thank you. Good evening, City Council members. My name is Ernesto Martinez, and I've been living in San Ana for 20 years, and I graduated from Saddleback High School in 1996.

Now I live by Main Street and McFadden, close to Marisco Sector, and I go there for at least the last 18 years of my life. I go there at lunchtime, dinnertime, weekends with family. And everything has been great there. I have a great experience. And I support Santa Ana business. And my shoes that I have, I bought it in the main place. My suit is from 4th Street.

And I'm here to support my school sectors. and I'm agreeing with CUP 47.

And thank you. Thank you, sir, for your comment. Jose Castillo and followed by Jose Tarifo.

Jose Castillo had to leave. He was here to represent many of the neighbors that are in the area and I'm not sure if there's somebody that's going to replace him on that. There he is.

come on up. Okay so we can have him fill out a speaker card when he's finished.

Yes please.

Here it comes.

Ok, can I start? Welcome

Hello

I'm Germán Farías I live in the part of the Mariscos and then I don't bother the noise or anything, everything is fine and I've never had problems with the music or anything and And I have ahood for the ley 47. It is not a problem for me. And I believe that is all.

Thank you. Thank you. I live behind the hectares.

I'm not bothered by the noise. I don't have any problems with the music. Everything is good. And I support the issuance of the 47th license.

and that's all. Thank you sir. Jose Tarifa?

Jose? With an A on the end? With an A, correct. Jose Tarifa.

Good evening members of the City Council. My name is Jose Tarifa. I have worked with Marisco sectors for a couple years on different projects on the operations side. I'm in support of allowing this restaurant to move forward with its 47 license approval. Moving forward with its approval, license allowed Maurice Cosector the opportunity to compete under the same platform in comparison to other restaurants that have been opening their doors recently with a 47 license. Maurice Cosector has been in the community for over 30 years.

allowing Marisco sector moving forward the license also helps keep a lot of the staff employed and majority of them are Sanana residents. So thank you.

Thank you, sir. Next speaker is Enrique Mendoza, followed by Victor Mendez.

Hello, everyone. Welcome. Thank you. It's late and there are great speakers here, but let me go to what I have to say. I've been a customer from Marisco Sector for over 10 years. I work in the city of Santa Ana and I live in Mission Viejo. I drive with my family on the weekends to have lunch and dinner. I love the music they have in there. The quality of the food is great. and they employ a high number of people in the city of Santa Ana and they bring revenue to the city.

So I'm here to support them and to support Marisco Sectors to get the upgrade to license 47. Thank you.

Thank you for your comments, sir. Next speaker is Victor Mendez.

Good evening, Council.

Followed by Maria Sebold.

Good evening, Council members. I also like to talk and support this resolution. I actually live probably about 50 yards from the other hectares on Broadway. Right there, it's never had a problem with them at all. People do have a very good time there. I see families celebrating birthdays and all kinds of celebrations. And as the manager will attest, I'm pretty much a regular there. Being a single guy, I need to get a quick meal sometimes. And just to let you know what type of person this woman is, A couple of weeks ago, I forgot my credit card. And I had ordered my meal and had a drink and everything.

I said, my goodness, my credit card here. She graciously said, don't worry about it. Come back and just pay when you can. And I did. But that just shows the type of person she is. And I think she deserves a little break, a little understanding, somebody who definitely wants to latch on to this community and help with both economic and social growth in our community. Thank you.

Thank you, sir, for your comment. Next speaker is Maria Sebold, followed by Mr. Ruben Smith. He'll be the last speaker.

I've been in the direction for more than 30 years. I took the time to go to talk to all my neighbors who are around and all the businesses. And I told you that I was applying for a license 47. And thank God, all of me approved. And all of me signed. I have the documents, if you want to see them. And that they didn't have a problem. I also asked if they had a problem for the band. And then they said they didn't have any problem with the noise.

And then the ABC has approved my license to the 2 of the morning.

And then I'm a woman solter. My family depends on me, my parents, my employees.

Thank you.

I've been trying to get this project approved for over three years. Marisco Sector has been at this location for over 30 years. And I've had, I asked the neighbors and the businesses around. I told them I was going to get the application for this license. And they all, the 47th license, and they all signed. I have the letters and they all supported me. They have no problems. I have banda music and they have no problems with that or with the noise. and I have the ABC license approved until 2 a.m. And I'm a single mom. I support my family. I support my mom. My employees depend on my support.

So please ask for your support so that I can keep supporting them. I work very hard. I've never had any bad comments from the neighborhoods. The neighbors support me. Thank you.

Thank you, sir. Last speaker, Mr. Ruben Smith.

thank you mayor partem and council members appreciate you taking letting us take the time to speak to you a little bit more again and as I said last time I think you have somebody who's really special here in the city of Santa Ana when she was 18 years old she was a waitress in this restaurant the owner of the restaurant when she became 24 decided to retire and leave it and instead of leaving it to her children she left it to my decibel I think that's an incredible person who has done an incredible job over the last since 2005 to today over the last 15 years running the

restaurant this is the one restaurant that she has owned from the beginning she is the only owner of this restaurant has not had any problems uh this restaurant as you know is uh needs to be competitive i know uh councilman receta you uh talked about restaurants within half a mile i'm not sure i want to mention the names but i can of the three restaurants that you know since she has received her liquor license three years ago that hasn't been able to get used yet also were granted liquor license by this count by the council and they are the competitors of this

restaurant and so you've got three newer restaurants who are coming into town she's been there for more than 30 years and so in order to main competitor remain competitive we really need the approval of this license because then it allows her to do a full-service bar so I think that this if you look at the history of this project it's been approved by the Planning Commission it was determined by the Planning Commission to be not detrimental to the health safety and welfare of the community it was approved by the Department of Alcohol and Beverages Control it was look was

determined to be a proper location for the site it was approved by the Santa Ana Police Department and the code enforcement division stating that they have no concerns with the conditional use permit and support the approval of the license all of the businesses that surround the restaurant and the residents that surround the restaurants have approved it I think that you have a business that has done everything that's been asked of it it's just it's it's run a very good business and the things that you might have heard really references to other restaurants that she didn't control its time today she

controls it and she's always controlled this one and this one has not had any problems and the only restaurant before you today is this restaurant the city I should add also determined that it's sequel analysis that the use will not create any inverse at any adverse impact noise traffic or safety concerns I think you have again a business that is worthy of your support it's supported by all its immediate neighbors and we ask you now to be a supporter of this license as well. Thank you for your consideration. We look forward to your support. Thank you, Mr. Smith.

Madam Clerk, is there any time left for the applicant? I believe he didn't use... Yes, the

applicant has four minutes and three seconds left if you would like to provide additional comments.

I don't think you have to worry about me talking for four minutes and three minutes, four minutes and three seconds. Thank you again. Just as a reminder, my name is Mark Gaughan and I'm joined by the applicant, Maria Siebold. Thank you for your time, and I thank you for all the speakers that came here. We'll make one little point that Mr. Castillo, who was representing the neighbors, was going to ask for all of the neighbors to stand on up who are in support, who we sort of, in reference to your time, did not want to, were asked not to speak. So if we could have all the

neighbors who are here in support, please stand on up. These are individuals with the exception of one gentleman who have not spoken. More than three years ago, Maria was approved by the State of California for a Class 47 ABC license and initiated the City CUP process. Since then, she has been working with the neighborhood addressing light concerns such as noise, parking, security, landscaping, and building appearance. Today, Maria can stand before you and state that she has unanimous support for her application from the neighbors nearest to the restaurant and broad support by the nearby business owners.

Council, this application is being submitted by a Santa Ana resident, a businesswoman who lives around the corner, is vested in the neighborhood's improvements as much or more than anyone. She also wishes to improve the business environment in this section of South Main that is slated for significant city improvements. This application is intended to keep the locally owned, decades-old business competitive, to continue to employ the hundreds or so employees who are predominantly Santa Ana residents, to put her on an even playing field without town operators, such as Caliche Town, which also has a 47 license.

In December of 2018, Marie and I officially submitted the revised application with revised plans and updated operational plans. Since then, staff, including the Santa Ana Police Department, have reviewed our plan and found that Mariscos Hector's operation to be in compliance with all the operational standards, has no court enforcement violations, and is compliant with state ABC regulations. Further, Santa Ana Police Department has analyzed crime statistics for the past several years and did not identify any issues. This applicant has made significant facility, landscape, and operational improvements

and has plans to do more once this application is improved, primarily interior. This application is a good business operator and a neighbor who is as demonstrated by the staff recommendation to your planning commission and, of course, the planning commission approval. This application is submitted by a stand-up applicant and a local female business owner and should be approved by you tonight, the City Council. We respectfully request a unanimous yes for this application. I thank you for your time. If you have any questions, I'm available.

Thank you, sir. It's the pleasure of the Council.

David PenalozaItem —

I just wanted to make some comments. For the applicant? No, just in general. Does the Council comment?

Okay, so I'm going to go ahead and close the public hearing, and we'll proceed with the comments. Councilman Opinion, Alyssa.

David PenalozaItem —

Perfect. Thank you. I want to thank the gentleman who came and reminded me about the comments I made at the November 5th meeting. That was Worst House Sausages in our downtown business district, right underneath an open patio bar. And it's not five feet away from single-family residences, and it's not in the neighborhood. So thank you for that. But yes, I am a full supporter of expediting any businesses in our business district that could help our downtown business merchants. With that said, I have heard from the Planning Commission, the speakers that came to speak in opposition of this,

David PenalozaItem —

the neighborhood, the Madison Park neighborhood, the Wilshire Square neighborhood, Memorial Park neighborhood, residents, community leaders that spoke in opposition of this at the Planning Commission meeting. and we're here to speak against it the first time we as a council pulled pulled the item to a city council consideration and I've spoken to a lot of the residences that are in that neighborhood that butt up against the restaurant and there is a concern for for the sound and noise of the music I know the applicants mentioned that the businesses surrounding the property didn't have an issue with

David PenalozaItem —

the banda playing you know late at night that's because all those businesses are closed they could care less what music is playing at midnight but the neighborhood does care and is concerned about the noise and the possible nuisance that would come with having late hour operations and with the type 47 license i personally have family as well in that neighborhood and they're not you know they're homeowners they're the actual property owners they're not renting the broom they're not renting property and they're not you know happy with you know this getting

David PenalozaItem —

approved so with that said I don't know there's there's concerns from the neighborhood regarding this this this application so those are my comments

mr. mayor pro tem thank you councilmember is there any other okay

Phil BacerraItem —

councilmember becerra thank you mr pro tem um i want to thank uh councilmember penaloza for bringing this to the council and uh it is in his ward so i think that councilmember pillows has a what we'll share it my bad okay uh but as you mentioned you know you have still a new lives nearby um so anyhow uh with that being said as i asked staff there are no um other licenses in the area that are type 47. I don't know that this is the area that I would want to see start to go down

Phil BacerraItem —

the path of having restaurants open till 2 a.m. I don't know that this is the area where I want to see more restaurants offering full liquor. So I have some concerns and I know that when I was on the Planning Commission I had voted against this back in 2017. I frankly haven't heard anything that has made me feel compelled to change my mind at this point i too as councilmember paloza expressed i've also spoke with many of the folks in that in the adjacent area whether it's madison park wilshire square and a lot of them have expressed their concerns about this application

Phil BacerraItem —

probably the most that i could see myself supporting at this point would be the expansion of the Type 41, the existing beer and wine, into the adjacent space that the restaurant's expanding into. But at this point in time, I would not be supportive of the 47 license or being open past midnight.

Council Member Pinalosa?

David PenalozaItem —

Yeah. And in regards to the type, to the ABC, I know that's a state, Madam City Manager, but what kind of process do they go through with, I don't know, do they go through planning to do checks on businesses and restaurants? Because I know that earlier last year when this item first came before the planning commission, I had never been inside the restaurant, so I went for myself and I saw what was on the menu advertised as shots of tequila. And I ordered one and I took it and I've had plenty of shots of tequila and that was tequila.

David PenalozaItem —

I don't know why the restaurant would advertise shots of tequila or how long that went about, you know, as part of their menu. Was any ABC person ever looked into that?

David PenalozaItem —

What's the process, Madam City Manager, City Attorney?

Okay, I'll ask our director of planning to come up and speak to that, but the alcohol license are controlled completely by the state.

So in my experience, the state does go out and do a location check if it receives complaint. I don't know if the state ever received complaints regarding this issue, but yes, ABC does go out and do investigation. They often also work with the local municipality. So if they did, they would have also contacted us potentially. But we haven't heard of any specific investigation on that issue you brought up.

David PenalozaItem —

So it would have to be a complaint in order for it to trigger? Generally, they do go out on a complaint basis.

Okay.

David PenalozaItem —

And just more than likely, knowing the community and knowing the community that we serve and the type of clientele that Mariscos Hector's serves, a complaint is really not likely, unless Mariscos Hector's would be opening north or south Santa Ana, which as we've come to see. But thank you. Thank you, man.

Can I just respond with that? Sure.

actually agave wine second one's a madam city city attorney I think what we

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

generally do is allow our council members to complete asking their questions and then we can invite you back up to answer any questions the

council has very good thank you very much councilmember Sarmiento yeah thank you mr. mayor pro tem yeah I think normally yeah the protocol is that it gets brought back to the council and we go ahead and deliberate and if we have any questions of staff for the applicant we can we can proceed from there but I appreciate your effort to clarify. I also want to thank Councilmember Peñalosa who brought this back or pulled it from planning because normally these are done through the quasi-judicial commission of planning, and normally they don't come to us unless there's something irregular or something that is of concern.

And I know that there was concern from the neighborhood, from Madison Park, and that's why I agreed to pull it as well. and joined the council member in pulling it and bringing it before us. And after speaking with some of the members at Madison Park, some of the residents there, they were, they had some concerns, and they're valid. I think the site plan that was presented by staff, unfortunately, was missing a big piece of the east side of what abuts the, or what's adjacent to the site on the east end, which I believe are probably residences.

One of the things I think that I try to do when I deliberate on these is just fairness. And we've granted quite a few licenses, and we've granted 48s, which is pretty, you know, they're very, very rare. And we've done that for a lot of other applicants, and I think that for an applicant that's been in town for as long as this one, that's an existing business are not introducing anything new with the exception of probably broadening their menu and opening up a little bit like any successful business would do. But I do think that what the neighborhood explained to me and expressed to me when I

spoke with them was just making sure that we added some conditions to make sure that things were complied with. And I think people with valid concerns do have some safeguard here with a six-month review. I do think that I would support item number two as the option because it does allow for the additional condition that was recommended by planning to have this reviewed by our staff in six months to make sure that nothing has been heightened, there have been impacts. I would also include the condition of any sound attenuation efforts that could be made,

whether it's through double painting window, sometimes drywall helps, but those measures certainly go a long way in attenuating the sound and the impact. But the fact that this was approved by the Planning Commission, there were relatively low calls for service. There doesn't seem to be a concentration of these types of licenses in the area. And again, the concerns that I heard from the neighborhood that I represent, Madison, A lot of the discussion, unfortunately, was around another Hector's, and I do remember that there was a lot of discussion about the Hector's on Standard and McFadden.

And so that really bled into this conversation because that one seemed to be operating a little bit more chaotically than this one. And so I can understand why they would be apprehensive about granting an expanded license here, an expanded footprint, and extended hours, because if the pattern and practice of an affiliated restaurant is conducting itself in that manner, then there was obviously apprehension. But I think, again, this is a different business that's been there. And it's, you know, again, we're not introducing a new use. It's an existing use that's going to have a broadened menu with extended hours.

with that safeguard of being able to come back and have this reviewed. But I do think that that's something that I would support to make sure that nothing that we don't expect occurs. And to the extent that there's some good faith that I see on behalf of the applicant and neighbors here willing to go ahead and stand up with her, I could be supportive of number two with some of the conditions that I mentioned.

Thank you, Councilmember.

Councilmember Peñalosa? For planning staff?

David PenalozaItem —

Yeah. As part of the conditions that were brought forward by the applicant and put in by the Planning Commission, Mr. Mintai, the soundproofing, was this just the front of the restaurant or was it the entire surrounding?

Based on the conditions, it's at the front of the restaurant because the remainder of the restaurant is CMU concrete block. The concern was for the glazing, so there could be additional glazing, which is the glass looking at dual pane type windows to help the additional noise insulation.

David PenalozaItem —

so and see that and that's what what um to me you know putting that condition to make the front end soundproof uh to make sure the homeless that sleep at the fabric store parking lot you know sleep throughout the night that's what we're doing you know the problem would be towards the back of the restaurant where there's residences you know that's that's where the sound uh proofing should be in place and should be asked to do and if that's cost you know that that has money uh i mean if that's going to cost more money for the for the applicant i mean that's that's their price to pay

David PenalozaItem —

if they want to protect that neighborhood or if they want to be good neighbors um i i when i first saw that the the soundproofing at the front of the store was put as a condition i didn't i thought that was kind of pointless because it's facing you know heavy you know street superior grocers the a1 fabric store and it's all those are businesses that are shut down for you know 9 p.m at the latest so there's nobody really to bother when it comes to sound the concern for me is towards the back of the restaurant which is where I would see and I see what Councilmember

David PenalozaItem —

Sarmiento saying that we could feel comfortable moving with option two and approving their license but I personally would ask for more soundproofing towards the back of the restaurant that face the the homes and to completely omit the late hours operating hours because it keeps being sold to us as a family restaurant to me a family restaurant is a Red Robin or Applebee's that close by 10 p.m. Asking to be open until 2 in the morning, 1 a.m., that's not a family restaurant. That turns into a nightclub, a bar. So I would feel comfortable moving with option

David PenalozaItem —

number two if we are in those conditions to soundproof the back of the restaurant that face the residences and omit completely the late hours of operation and have them operate until 11 p.m.

David PenalozaItem —

I'm not sure what the pleasure of my colleagues are, but that would be a route that I would, if we're moving towards the area of approving, that would probably be the best for now.

Phil BacerraItem —

Mr. Pro Temp, if I may.

Go ahead, Council Member Massero.

Phil BacerraItem —

I have a question for Mr. Tai. The applicant or someone supporting the applicant referenced another restaurant, Something Town, that's, I believe, down on South Bristol.

Coliche, that's correct. It's on South Bristol.

Phil BacerraItem —

How much soundproofing do they have?

There weren't any requirements on soundproofing for that facility.

Phil BacerraItem —

So for what my colleagues are talking about as potential soundproofing, was there a condition placed on that particular site to have as much soundproofing?

That condition was not applied to Kalichi Town.

Phil BacerraItem —

Okay. Thank you.

David PenalozaItem —

In regards to Kalichi Town, I, at the Memorial Park Neighborhood Association meeting over the summer, it was only about a week after they opened, I forget which staff member was there. I think William Galvez from Traffic was there. There were about 15 residents that were up in arms over Culiche Town and the Sound. There's about a 15-foot barrier between Culiche Town and a senior old folks home. And there were folks there from the senior folks home that had concerns about the sound,

David PenalozaItem —

the sound of the banda playing well past 11 p.m., the sound of the trash dumping.

David PenalozaItem —

I reached out to the restaurant, and they agreed to not throw away any trash at night, and I believe they agreed to change their hours. I haven't heard any more complaints since, but there have been numerous complaints from that neighborhood. We're talking a big, I don't know what the buffer is between that senior folks' home and the restaurant, but I know it's a good-sized alley, and then there's two alleys, I believe, and I heard sound complaints, and they're on the record. And here, when I'm looking at the aerial view, you could jump from Mariscos Hector's

David PenalozaItem —

to the residence without even much effort to the next roof over. So those are, I mean, there have been sound complaints from Culichi Town, and I hope we're working towards...

So with this location, we can certainly work with the applicant and with the assistance of an acoustic engineer, look at how we can modify the interior to reduce the sound traveling from the back walls to the east area of the residential neighborhood.

Okay, I'm going to go ahead and give Council Member Iglesias a chance to speak. She's been very patient.

So thank you, Councilman Pena Loza, for bringing this up. On Friday, I went and I visited this location for the very first time. And I was concerned with two things when I went there. I went there around 8.15, 8.30. The bandas started playing about 8.45, 9 o'clock. And, oh, my gosh, I couldn't hear myself at all. It was so loud. And we were in there, and I went with my commissioner, Ms. Connell.

We both went because we wanted to see what this location does and what it provides. My compliments to the chef. The food was good. We ordered tacos. But one thing that really surprised me was when we asked exactly what Council Member Pinielloza was saying, It has a label on top of it that says agave shots. And then I'm like, what's an agave shot? And I asked the waitress that was helping us. And she goes, oh, it's tequila, but it's a brand. I said, oh, okay. I thought we weren't, you know, I'm thinking to myself, right? Of course I didn't tell her.

But I thought, you know, that was up for approval. It shouldn't be happening. So I'm wondering, you know, what type of process do we have there in order to ensure that the restaurant is compliant with what they're supposed to be compliant. So we stayed there for a little bit because it was too loud. You know, we left, but then we went around and we drove around. And when I saw that the back wall is just a wall next to, like, not even five feet, and you have the backyard of the neighbors.

And it didn't sound as loud because you hear all the noise on Main Street. Pretty much you hear more of the cars sometimes.

But I'm pretty sure that the neighbors, we couldn't get to them because it was 9 o'clock at night. We wouldn't be able to go and talk to them. It's too late.

So we got out of the car. And actually, I parked at El Sawayo, which is the restaurant that's across the street. And we just stood there, and we could still hear it from there. And in El Sawayo, I would say it's about 500 feet, maybe. I don't know how far it is. So I would – oh, and then another thing is, too, I know you guys have a security, and then they do a good job. So I don't know if that's part of the conditions for them to have security until they close. I mean, how many hours is security requested to be on site?

And also, if they're really monitoring who goes there and parks, because we were about to park in a slot, but thanks to the security, you wouldn't want to park there because somebody just threw up. And I was like, ugh. So we kind of moved. But also, too, with the owner, are you making sure that it's clean on the outside? Because that wasn't really appealing for us to go there. It wasn't good. So my question to Min would be the security requirement. And then also the soundproofing.

Yes, I would agree with Council Member Pinalosa that it would not only be the front, but also the back because that's the one that I think is more important. And then after 12, right now, what's their hours of operations?

They can operate until 12 a.m.

Right now they're operating?

By code, correct.

Okay, so I would be okay with leaving it until 12, but I think it's adding those conditions of the soundproofing and then also the security just to make sure that they have security there all the time.

And then if you can check into the sales of the tequila shots because it's still going on. I was there on Friday, and on purpose I paid with my credit card so you guys could have record that I was there. Yeah, so you guys can look it up.

Certainly the applicant can probably explain more in regards to their advertisement on the sale of tequila, But from my understanding, this was also discussed at the Planning Commission level that it's an agave wine. But, you know, I haven't had the experience myself, so I can't either verify or deny it. But, you know, I think the applicant should be able to answer those questions as well.

I just Googled it, so there is such a thing.

In regards to the soundproofing, I think there certainly can be efforts that promotes that. we can add a condition that talks about using an acoustical engineer to help us evaluate the noise level that's emanating outside of the building and look at strategies on how to address those. And security can be made a part of the COP as well as the entertainment permit.

And also keeping that area clean on the outside, too. Not just having security, because I know the security is going to say, that's not my job. But if you could have it, make sure that it's clean.

There is a maintenance condition that is placed upon a project should it be considered for approval.

Council Member Peña, I'm sorry, Sarah?

Phil BacerraItem —

I know we always look alike, right? Anyhow, thank you, Mr. Pro Tem. I just want to, you know, Council Member Iglesias asked, you know, what's the process or what can we do when, you know, we hear these stories about liquor being served when it shouldn't be? It's very simple. We have an application before us asking for permission to be given more ability to serve alcohol. And if you feel, or any of us feels, and Council Member Penaloza said that he walked in there and was able to order tequila when they weren't permitted to order tequila, we shouldn't be rewarding businesses who don't follow not only local rules but state rules.

Phil BacerraItem —

And I think that every application that comes before us, I think it's good when this council wants to be business friendly and wants to help out local businesses. But I don't feel that we should feel obligated to just approve an application before us or try to kind of fit the square peg in the round hole. I think a lot of the conditions that we're talking about up here seem to be things that are really trying to make the square peg fit. And I would just like to throw out to my colleagues that it's okay to either deny the application or reduce what's allowed.

Phil BacerraItem —

As I mentioned earlier, I'd be okay with expanding the existing license into the adjacent space that they're expanding into. I'm definitely not comfortable with the expanded hours until 2 a.m. And then rewarding them with full liquor as they're apparently already serving full liquor. I don't feel it's appropriate, but that's just my opinion at this point.

So I would like to ask a few questions, but Council Member here hasn't. Okay. So am I allowed to ask the applicant?

Yes, Mayor Patel. Sure.

All right. Thank you. So I understand that the request was to put the soundproof glass out in the front, and that's about $30,000. Did I hear that correctly in the meeting we had?

We have a quote at about $40,000.

It's about $40,000. Okay, so if we put something in the back, how much is that? I mean, we're not going to put the glass.

We didn't address that, and we didn't address that primarily because, excuse me, Maria, there have been no complaints by the residents nearby. It may be close by, and that may be a very good wall. But the fact of the matter is that we have unanimous agreement by all the neighbors to the east side of the facility, and we haven't had a problem. So it's like chasing something that's not really of a great concern.

Okay, so I have here all the signed support from the neighbors. I have a presentation here where it talks about there was 24 calls in the last five years, one with an injury. I know two of them were actually there both times. Marisco's Hector was the victim. It's not like they did something, somebody tried to steal a car or something of that nature. But what I don't really see is, I mean, if there was some complaints from the neighbors, I think the numbers would be a lot more where someone calls and complains about the noise there. So, I mean, I'm just not seeing it here.

I do believe in giving the longtime businesses a chance. So my question now is for Mr. Ninh.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

May I just ask you for a second on the way our process is? Do you have any further questions for the applicant, or we'll have them sit down, unless you have further questions for them?

No further questions. Thank you. Now, my question for Mr. Ninh.

There are a few comments, Mr. Mayor and Ms. City Attorney, that I would like to clarify a few things.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

Well, right now is the opportunity for council members to ask questions, and then if you have further questions, you can ask them. but the applicant has used their five, I understand they've used their five minutes of allocated.

Very good, very good.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

At the discretion of the council, you can ask further questions if you'd like.

Thank you. Mr. Min, okay, now I lost my train of thought here. Okay, so right now option two is what everyone is kind of aiming at because we can add a few things on there. Does that include, I believe it has a six-month probation attached to it?

Yes, that is to begin with, right off the bat.

Six-month probation. They're in good faith going to put the soundproof glass. They got extra parking across the street, I'm told. Is there anything about security?

So that could be added tonight. Some of the discussion includes security, looking at evaluating the sound and potentially adding soundproofing to the building towards the east side. I think it needs some verification so that we know what we need to address, because we do have sound standards that are measurable that we can look at and whether or not we need to either meet it or achieve that. And then thirdly is the maintenance of the property.

So if we approve this and it has a six-month probation, and let's say we have some issues, at the end of the six months, can we say, hey, you know what, we're going to stop everything there is because we have too many issues. Is that correct?

So the six months is on the second application of expanding the hours. What that does is that you can review that, or the city can review that application at that time. In terms of this particular application,

the Planning Commission original approval also has a review. So you have the ability to, at six months, look at whether or not the operation have created the impact. If it did, you can look at how to mitigate it, or you can also start the process of revocation.

Okay. Does the council have a motion, don't we? There's no motion? I thought there was something. Okay, so what is the pleasure of the council?

Well, I think I had suggested that we, that I guess I'll move, that we consider option number two with the requests as stated by the applicant for the expansion of the footprint, for the extended hours, and for the license with the additional conditions of sound attenuation, both front and back, and the six-month review. and I think I heard some additional security staff.

And property maintenance.

And property maintenance. Correct.

Property maintenance. Okay, is there a second on that?

David PenalozaItem —

Was that motion to approve the extended hours? Yes. Okay.

So that is for two extra hours to go until 2 a.m.

Phil BacerraItem —

So Councilmember Soloria is going with option one, not option two. That was my motion. That's what I'm saying.

So, yeah, well, you said Soloria. Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, so, yeah, we don't look alike. But... Amen. Councilmember, just to help clarify...

It's that full head of hair he has, that's why. Just to help clarify, the number two, as recommended now, is for the adoption of the resolution approving the CEP with added conditions as outlined for Type 47 and also to expand into the additional area. That's Part A. Part B is to continue the extended hours until the six-month review period. So that's the Part B of recommendation to... Is that your motion?

But yeah, so I guess 1 and 2.

We'll call you up. I was going to say that you can take the hours off the table if you place.

Well, if you do that, then I think that might even be better. Actually, that's helpful if that's something that some of my colleagues... Just the original hours, correct? If I may ask, so would that... Excuse me one second. I'm speaking. So just to clarify, the difference between one and two is that two, we're able to add some additional conditions, correct?

Correct.

All things being equal. So if the applicant is willing to go ahead and remove those additional hours, but we allow for the expanded footprint for the additional 600 square feet and for the upgrade from a 41 license to a 47 with additional conditions that we just enumerated, which I believe are four, and I can recite those again if they're not clear, but those are for the six-month review, for the sound attenuation, for additional security, and for property management. So that would be the motion. That's your motion? Yes.

Okay. Is there a second? If not, I'm going to second so we can go ahead and have a vote.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

And this would be the time to just ask the applicant consent, yes or no. We don't want discussion, but does the applicant agree to those additional conditions because you don't want to approve something the applicant doesn't agree to? So if the applicant would just nod if they agree to those additional conditions or not.

Is it a yes or a no?

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

Yes.

It is a yes.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

Thank you.

Okay, very good.

Phil BacerraItem —

Just to be clear, so we're approving, you guys are making a motion to approve the Type 47 within the expanded footprint, the four conditions, but no additional hours past midnight.

No additional hours.

Phil BacerraItem —

Okay.

And then, of course, all the other added goodies. The four conditions. The four conditions. Correct. Can I say something? Sure.

And I get what you said about not extending their opportunity to sell more than what they've already been approved for. So it's just more of a word of caution. If you're not approved to sell something, don't, because we go there and we're very involved, city council members. We'll show up. So there's no need for you to come up. I'm just saying it's just a word of advice.

I could only assure you that it is not tequila. It is a lobby product. It is a lobby product. Okay, so I'm just saying it's just a word.

Mr. Goggin, we have to. Okay, we're going to stop. Okay, so let me get right to the point. If you approve, push. Wait a minute, where's the councilman? There he is back there. If you approve the motion that's on the table right now, go ahead and push green.

Just one clarification. The six-month review is through the Planning Commission, as the normal process would be, and not in front of the Council. The six-month review period.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

Would they also deny 2B for the additional hours? Since they've agreed not to have them, would we be denied 2B? Correct. Okay, I just want to clarify that.

If you approve, push the green button.

David PenalozaItem —

Wait, so the six-month review period, can we make it to come back to Council, not the Planning Commission?

The normal process is that it's done by the Planning Commission, and that decision then will be forwarded to the City Council as part of FYI for your information as part of an update.

David PenalozaItem —

Okay, and I just wanted to say that if it looks, smells, and burns like tequila, it's tequila.

Why?

Let's vote.

Okay, so it doesn't pass.

You're not going to vote?

Madam City.

uh can we you have to state that you're abstaining no yeah i was prepared this night to vote for this project but there are just so many questions up here that i feel we need a little bit more time to sort through them and uh so i take a vote so i i support like a two-week continuance but i i'm still very uneasy about some of the questions that would

Madam City Attorney, can he abstain or not?

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

Well, he can notice an abstention if he'd like to abstain. We normally would ask what the purpose or reason is for that. Like we have a conflict.

So I thought there needs to be a conflict if you're going to abstain.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

Right. Or he could state his reasons for abstaining.

Okay.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

So what's the reasons?

Phil BacerraItem —

Just not voting.

Is that acceptable, Madam City Attorney?

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

You know, just as a clarification, our municipal code, we have a provision in our code that does say that council members shall participate in votes unless they have conflicts of interest. I know from time to time we have allowed council members to disqualify themselves out of an abundance of caution, for example, like we had this evening. But we do have a provision in our municipal code that requires a vote unless you have a conflict.

Just for process, then I'll register myself as a no because I have remaining questions. Okay.

Very good. Okay, we can call the mayor back.

Doesn't pass. We could consider a two-week continuous, but again, that's for the... It doesn't pass.

Phil BacerraItem —

Mayor Portem, just for clarification, Madam City Attorney, so now that we have a 3-3 vote on that item, so what happened?

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

my understanding is he registered now okay yeah so it ended up being a 3-3 it's a 3-3 no it wasn't 33 yeah it was three three that's correct yeah three three yes so it fails then

there's no it's no action I think in the past our madam clerk or our next item yeah so I just want

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

to make sure that the council's fully aware we could have put this in the staff report we didn't anticipate this would happen but the council called up this item and if the council does not take action on the item by denying it overturning it continuing it etc the Planning Commission determination will stand because the Planning Commission has legal authority to approve conditional use permits and in this case they did approve the conditional use permit so unless it's amended or overturned by the City Council then their decision would

Phil BacerraItem —

stand. Madam City Attorney, but this is a DeNovio hearing. So the Planning Commission's action is

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

washed? No it isn't. Only if you take action. Under our municipal code you have the authority to call up the item, but you cannot hold an item hostage. And that is why there's timing in the municipal code that you have to call up that item within 10 days. And then you have to take action on that item. You cannot hold a conditional use permit hostage as it may be. So it passed. to take action it passed well asked by you but the planning commission will stand because the

David PenalozaItem —

applicant here to overturn it well can can we make another motion if you'd like to reconsider

Phil BacerraItem —

your motion if someone who voted my motion i think someone's got to leave for a second

i knew it was going to be a long night

Good job.

Phil BacerraItem —

Mayor Persaud, Councilor Mayor Penaloza, what did you want to consider?

David PenalozaItem —

I'd like to make a motion to go with option three, adopt a resolution denying conditional use permit. Number 2910 and Conditioning Use Permit 2019-11. I'll second that.

Phil BacerraItem —

Motion second.

To deny. To deny. I thought you just approved, so we have to...

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

You did approve. You did not take action. You had no action.

There was no action.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

The motion that was on the table failed to pass the item. He's introducing a new motion. on an agenda item that's been properly noticed.

Madam City Attorney, don't we have to reconsider our previous vote?

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

Only if it actually had resulted in an action. A 3-3 is no action. Got it. That's why you're doing this. Just no action. And he's asking now that it's agendized. Since that resulted in no action, he can introduce a new motion.

So if this results in another 3-3, that's still no action?

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

Still no action.

Phil BacerraItem —

It'll be a 3-2 somewhere.

David PenalozaItem —

so what was your motion to a motion to deny conditional use permit so go with

option three anyway for the councilmember to show up

okay so just want to make sure that council members delorio understands the We have motion, okay, is there a second? You got the second, okay. All those in favor, push green.

Okay, so that motion fails.

Madam City Attorney, you're up.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

You're back to not taking any effective action that would overturn or amend your Planning Commission decision. Very good. The Mayor is back.

We're continuous.

David PenalozaItem —

That's it. Can, Madam City Attorney, can we make a motion to go with the option number two with the conditions that were stated earlier by Councilmember Sarmiento and keeping the after hours off the table?

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

yes i believe that was the first motion that was on the table as introduced by councilman sarmiento which is option number two without expanded hours it actually could the denial to

David PenalozaItem —

be yes you may reintroduce that okay um councilman sarmiento would like to reintroduce your motion

if you're going to second me i'll reintroduce it sure i move uh for the original motion as stated

David PenalozaItem —

And that is with adding those four conditions and then keeping the after hours off the table completely.

Correct. It was denying that.

David PenalozaItem —

Okay.

That's your second. All those in favor of the motion by Council Member Sarmiento, push green.

Okay.

Very good. Let's call the mayor back in. For the third time.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

I know you would want to know. I double checked. I double checked.

And we can call the mayor back in?

Yes.

Okay, what's the next item? Madam City Clerk?

Item 65A.

60A.

65A. 65A? Yes, 65A.

David PenalozaItem —

Yes, sir. I'd like to make a motion to approve option number two in 65A.

Let the mayor walk up.

I know you're back on motion. I'll second that motion.

Sonia R. CarvalhoItem —

2-2?

Okay, the mayor is back.

All right, so there's a motion on 65A, option number two.

David PenalozaItem —

It's to install the model and seal side-by-side above the existing aloof.

Phil BacerraItem —

I'll second it.

David PenalozaItem —

Got two seconds.

There you go.

All right. Nobody likes blue curtains.

I liked them. They look classy.

David PenalozaItem —

What if the mayor wears a blue tie? He's going to blend in. If we don't, we blend with the seats.

He'll never wear a blue tie.

Be able to see those blue squares.

There you go.

All right. Any more discussion? Those in favor, just say aye.

Aye. No.

Okay.

Oh, I need to just say goodbye.

All right, let's do the... But here you say that if we say it clearly, we can do a voice vote.

Especially if it's unanimous.

Right. But it all says that if we say who dissented, that that's sufficient. So I'm going to start trying that because I think this light thing is too slow.

65D, is that what we're on?

65B.

Yes.

Okay, I'm not big on committees, but who wants to be on this one?

So, Mayor, if you read the staff report, this was an item that was requested. Right. And what we have before you is, like, guidelines on how you can go about should you choose to do a charter review. And we would bring back at a later date a resolution that would help you establish a charter review committee where you would actually appoint individuals. We can take applications. So that's what's before you.

Are we talking mainly a committee of council members or are you talking about a generic committee?

In the past you formed an ad hoc and then that ad hoc came back to you and recommended doing a charter review committee of individuals that you appointed. So you could do it either way. If you wanted to pursue an ad hoc with three or less council members to study it.

I'd be in favor of that. I think it'll save a lot of time and if people are interested, just tell me who you are.

David PenalozaItem —

I think because of how archaic and old our charter is, I think it's important that we have recorded evidence and speakers and public comments and input. So I'd be comfortable moving forward with option number one, to direct staff to prepare a resolution establishing a charter review committee that is compromised of us council members, maybe three like any of the other council committees.

I'd be happy to appoint one right now if there's three people that want to serve. Would you like to serve? I'd personally like to serve. Who else would like to serve? Okay, we have two. Is there a third?

Well, look, if a third emerges, just tell me and I'll add you. But let's get this going. Okay. It's moving forward with option one, right?

Phil BacerraItem —

Well, it's just the whole recommended action. Right?

David PenalozaItem —

Right.

Phil BacerraItem —

Actually, there's... I'll back up.

I'll get there.

If Councilman Solari wants to be on there, I'll just go ahead and appoint these three as an ad hoc committee to do the charter review.

We also discussed the option of having a charter review committee made up of citizens where you each would appoint one individual that would carry out the review and do the work for you.

And what I'm suggesting is let the council do it. So it's less time, and we can still have input from a bunch of individuals, but let's let the Council take charge.

Phil BacerraItem —

And Mr. Mayor, I think from what Council Member Penwell has suggested, rather than be an ad hoc, we have it subject to Brown Act. It's open, and so residents, we would definitely welcome to participate, share their ideas with us, and we would deliberate in full public view.

David PenalozaItem —

Absolutely.

We can return with a resolution that establishes that. and I believe I already have two members that are interested.

By the way, an ad hoc can also be published, and you can invite public, and you can do everything else. It's just less money and less burn on staff.

Typically, you use an ad hoc committee when you have a specific purpose, and it's going to be formed for a limited duration.

Well, and this is a specific purpose. Once they're done reviewing the charter, I mean, you're not going to have it for a year or two years, we hope. right? If we have a permit, it's going to be a long time. We got the wrong committee. So do you understand what I'm talking about, Councilman Becerra? So why don't we just appoint this ad hoc? If you guys, whatever you want, you come back, but you guys go ahead and meet and let's get going. All right?

So consider it done. Mr. Mayor, I'm going to have to excuse myself. I have an early morning hearing. I know you told me you were going to leave much earlier. I was supposed to leave two hours ago.

All right. Thank you for your time. All right. So, Councilor Solorio, Peñalosa, and Bacera are the ad hoc committee.

Okay. So, vote.

I'll just appoint. I mean, we can vote. If you're in favor, press green. All right. What's our next item?

Just to clarify, we'll return with a resolution that officially creates that ad hoc and what the purpose of it is.

Fine. Whatever you want to do is fine.

I think they just meet. I think they can just meet and start looking at the charter.

65C.

65C.

Discuss and provide direction of staff regarding American Sign Language Services. How much is this going to cost?

I'll let the city clerk answer the questions.

Yeah, so approximately what we were estimating, based on what the Unified School District is using, it'll cost us around $40,000. A year. A year.

I feel it's a good investment because we get an opportunity to engage with another section of our community. And if you've noticed, many of the legislators or maybe even other states and countries always have an interpreter when they're filming or when they're providing their meetings or when they're providing their...

Look, I think $40,000 is not an exorbitant amount of money. and if we're able to communicate with more people that are otherwise left out. I think a lot of deaf people are able to read lips.

But if we want to do it, thoughts?

We haven't had any requests in 15 years.

Longer than that, 150.

At least that's what the staff relayed to me.

Right, and that was searchable records.

Unsearchable records. We haven't had any requests for this ever.

And it is on the agenda at the very bottom where if anybody requested for any ADA services. That's correct.

Why don't we see if we have a request first or two.

Or maybe we do a pilot. I was going to say that.

Maybe we do a pilot.

Reach out with organizations that can spread the word.

And if they don't want to watch council meetings, we leave them alone.

Yeah, there you go. I think if we do a six months pilot that we could.

So how would we be tracking this? How would we know that they're using those services?

Because the organizations we work with would let us know. Some of these organizations really are fairly tight knit. And if there are partners, I mean I'm assuming there are some partners here locally, but I bet there are and I think maybe that might be the Do you want to do a survey? That might be the first step for us to meet with those organizations to see how we might do it. See if there's any demand. Yes. Or how they could help us. Have them could help us track it if we were to do it.

So in a form of a survey?

No, just meetings with them. I mean, there might be two to three organizations. We have many nonprofits in San Marino.

Manager, could you meet with interested council members and see if there's a way we could form a concept around here that we could potentially implement and measure?

Yes, sir. So I understand you're interested in just a pilot program to see if there's a way to do it effectively.

Potentially, but we're talking about what metric would we use? How do we know if it's doing anything? Maybe there's nobody watching. Or how to get the word out. How to get the word out, what are the organizations out there and are they interested in this?

But when you televise it, I think that's when you see the impact. Because I know that with the school district, when the meetings are televised, you have the interpreter, and they're showing the interpreter at the bottom here, the bottom left-hand corner.

How do we know anybody's watching them?

Well, so for that, I called the staff to find out why they're providing services at the Unified School District. And the reason why was because it was demanded by the parents because it was affecting Taft Elementary School. Correct. And their services, and because of what the board meetings were meeting about was directly affecting them, they wanted to participate.

It was specific.

It was. It was specific to those items. And it wasn't all items that they requested those services. But they're there every meeting. Only for regular meetings, not every meeting. Yeah, regular meetings, I know. Regular ones.

David PenalozaItem —

Do we have closed captioning for people that watch at home?

We have options for that, but we don't have that service currently.

Why don't we look at providing that? See what that would cost before we launch.

Okay.

I like your idea, Mr. Mayor, of the city manager working with interested individuals to see what the next steps are. I do, too. I do think just because others haven't done it before or done it well that we shouldn't try. And I think there might be some service providers.

See if there's any other cities in California doing it.

Right, or if there's local city providers and any suggestions they may have for us.

So, Madam City Manager, why don't you meet with interested Council Members, maybe in a couple weeks, or just tell us what ideas came up and what we might pursue.

Will do.

All right, thank you. So next item 65D is in David. I suggest we roll this one over for a couple weeks. Let's give it all some time and bring it back. Could I get a motion to that effect? It's been a long night.

So we have a motion. We have a second by Becerra. Those in favor say aye. Aye. Motion carries unanimously. Joseph continue, right? Yeah, two weeks.

75 is it B now? Yes. Amendment application for Calvary Church Master Plan located at 1010 North Tustin.

And staff does have a presentation, sir.

A brief? Okay, let me open up the public hearing first. And Michael Wells.

I represent the applicant.

Just say that into the microphone, please.

Michael L. I work for Calvary Church of Santa Ana and I'm here to answer any questions that you guys might have.

Got it. Carlo, is your statement similar? Come on down if you want to speak.

I don't know what the applicant is, Mayor and Protein Mayor and Council. He just said he's available for comment. But what I'm saying is that we should keep heads up because I don't think anybody's been on East 1st Street in Tustin and see what a nightmare it is over there. Plus, you've got all that extra building going on over there. It's amazing. It's like a race because there's only one exit to the 5 Freeway North, and then you've got to go across the bridge to go south. And then to hit the 55, you've got to hit 4th Street, and you have people coming in from Tustin.

and then they're speeding up a little bit faster on Tustin Avenue to hit 17th Street to catch that freeway exit to get on and off or to get on the freeway. So the applicant should know what's going on, maybe a couple extra traffic signals or at least some identification marker that there is a school there because sometimes you go right by Calvary right there and you don't even know if it's a school. So the city better open up its eyes. Like I said, you guys are creating speed demo traps all over the city because of all the extra building going on. That's all I've got to say. I see it down on MacArthur Boulevard all the time,

and it's like somebody's going to just roll the dice. One day, some kid at Greenville is going to get killed, and he'll be back on your guys' table.

Thank you. Staff, presentation, please.

This request is for approval of the Calvary Church Master Plan at 1010 Tustin and 11,000 B North Tustin Avenue. What you see on the aerial photo here is the actual site itself. It's located at the southwest corner of Wellington and North Tustin. The church has been here for a number of years now since 1962. They currently have about a 10-acre site. The church is requesting for a master plan in order for them to make improvements to the existing uses on the site, as well as to make the legal non-conforming uses conforming to the current code through an SD.

The existing uses include the church, the school, as well as administrative offices. Staff is recommending that the city council consider approving the amendment to the code to allow for the SD to occur. The current square footage of the site is approximately 350,000 square feet of existing building. They're asking for an additional 50,000 square feet in addition to that, also raising the height along the front portion of the site to about 60 feet, which is very much inconsistent with the adjacent development to the east side of Tustin Avenue.

Along the west side of the property, the height of the building is limited to 40 feet, and that is consistent with what's existing now with the Worship Service Center. In addition to that, we receive comments and concerns relating to or making improvements along Tustin to relocate some of the proposal on fencing to ensure that we provide security but also access to the site with pedestrian access along Tustin. those changes have been made the applicant is is acceptable to those

changes therefore we recommend that the City Council considering approving the project as well as adopting the mitigation and that concludes staff's report I'm sorry the mitigative negative declaration is there a discussion or is

there a motion for approval we have motion a second doesn't favor please say I I press green is there any opposition passes unanimously I'm gonna know one one I'm gonna have two no's Solario and Ben Loza all right so with that next

item 75 is it 85 a it is 85 a okay councilmember Iglesias okay so the

reason I asked the city manager put this on the agenda as a form of discussion is because we, well, I know I have been getting a lot of comments and a lot of concerns from many of the residents in Santa Ana and also the business owners who want the police department to enforce the no trespassing. So a lot of them don't even know what this form is, even though they should know what this form is, but they don't know what this form is. And a lot of them, when they come in to apply for a business license, get so much paperwork

that this form just goes unnoticed and they don't even know what this form is for in order for them to provide them their rights on how to request for the city and the city police for them to be able to enforce the no trespassing in private property. So my ask of my colleagues today is to direct the city manager so she can direct the staff so they can mail this form to all the businesses that we have in Santa Ana.

Just as a reminder of them, okay, you have this benefit, you have this right based on the business here in Santa Ana for us as a city to be able to enforce this. And I know we talked about this because we moved it from 30 days to, I believe now it's a six-month, right, that they could leave it open for the police department to be able to enforce the no trespassing. And then also I'm asking is for us to go like that extra mile just so we can explain to the new businesses when they come to us for a business license, to make it a point for us to explain the Form 602 when they're applying for a permit.

and a license. So what I'm asking is for my colleagues to support in us, you know, asking our city manager for us to go that extra step so we could make sure that our businesses are informed on what their rights are and what this Form 602 really does for them and what it does for the city.

Phil BacerraItem —

Mr. Mayor.

Yeah, Council Member Zinn, I want to hear from staff.

Phil BacerraItem —

Well, first I want to thank Council Member Iglesias for bringing this to us. um bringing this item to us i've heard from a lot of folks as well about this form 602 and i i've been working with staff to number one get updated one of the frustrating things i found was as people were bringing up this form to me when i went to search for it i couldn't find it and the one that i found was asking for it to be updated every 30 days and i want to thank staff for updating the form and putting it on the santa ana police website so it's easier to find now